From: "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de>
Subject: Re: Fun with C
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 23:36:36 +0200
Date: 2011-04-23T23:36:38+02:00 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <1j2bi0982bjcs.1beq9xn9za9yb$.dlg@40tude.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 84b83223-e191-4912-8f73-318deb4dd783@d19g2000prh.googlegroups.com
On Sat, 23 Apr 2011 11:37:00 -0700 (PDT), Elias Salom�o Helou Neto wrote:
> On Apr 23, 4:23�am, "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mail...@dmitry-kazakov.de>
> wrote:
>> On Fri, 22 Apr 2011 19:08:33 -0700 (PDT), Elias Salom�o Helou Neto wrote:
>>
>>> On Apr 22, 6:21�am, "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mail...@dmitry-kazakov.de>
>>> wrote:
>>
>>>> Nevertheless, future professional programmers should never be exposed to C
>>>> as the first language. It is like teaching physics in the school. Pupils
>>>> first learn the physics of XIX century. When they made 3/4, they are told:
>>>> guys, that was wrong! Here is how it goes! Programmers must learn concepts
>>>> and techniques which C cannot illustrate. What C can illustrate is how not
>>>> to program.
>>
>>> When it comes to physics, the main reason to teach classical
>>> mechanical is that it is actually a good approximation to modern
>>> theories and the math is far more simple. Nobody will say "guys, that
>>> was wrong!" because that is not wrong, it just must be used within its
>>> valid limits.
>>
>> I heard that wrong argument so many times.
>
> Certainly you've not heard it from good physicists, but from rather
> stupid ones. Let me state it clearly: Classical Mechanics isn't wrong
> at all. It is the best and most useful approximation for a wide range
> of phenomena.
3.14 might be a useful approximation of Pi, but not Pi.
> Why would someone use Quantum Mechanics or Relativity to
> compute velocities when designing an automatic train control system?
Why would anybody consider the Earth round? Let us start teaching students
that the Earth is flat, after all it is a useful approximation for building
construction. Later you can tell them that it is not very flat...
>>> It is quite different with programming languages, as C is actually
>>> harder than Pascal, which is a great tool for teaching programming.
>>
>> In which sense is C harder? I bet students find it simple. It is hard to
>> teach concepts of software design on example of C?
>
> Bauhaus explained it very well. And why on earth would I be teaching
> software design on an introductory course on programming?
Maybe because it supposed to be *introductory*? Is it an introduction into
C or into programming? I have no idea how to teach students programming, I
doubt that it must or can be taught, but it is obvious to me as a consumer,
that what is taught is mostly useless and often damaging.
> It is much more about algorithm, data structures and the language itself.
A "Newtonian mechanics" of coding. Again, I am not a teacher, but
programming today is not very much about algorithms, structures and even
concrete languages. Not that fresh students knew much about algorithms or
structures, that is not their biggest problem.
>> But Newtonian mechanics
>> is perfect for teaching cosmology, quantum effects, optics, fields etc?
>
> Do you want to teach this stuff to high school students? I don't get
> your idea here.
Certainly yes, if it is about physics.
--
Regards,
Dmitry A. Kazakov
http://www.dmitry-kazakov.de
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2011-04-23 21:36 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 124+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2011-04-16 17:02 Fun with C George P.
2011-04-16 20:04 ` Nasser M. Abbasi
2011-04-16 21:12 ` Ludovic Brenta
2011-04-16 21:42 ` jimmaureenrogers
2011-04-17 7:17 ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-04-17 8:29 ` Martin
2011-04-17 18:19 ` George P.
2011-04-17 8:40 ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-04-18 1:04 ` Peter C. Chapin
2011-04-18 2:14 ` George P.
2011-04-16 22:03 ` George P.
2011-04-17 6:26 ` KK6GM
2011-04-17 6:59 ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-04-17 16:15 ` KK6GM
2011-04-17 19:35 ` Elias Salomão Helou Neto
2011-04-17 20:18 ` KK6GM
2011-04-18 19:47 ` Elias Salomão Helou Neto
2011-04-18 22:11 ` Peter C. Chapin
2011-04-17 22:26 ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-04-18 19:12 ` Elias Salomão Helou Neto
2011-04-18 20:56 ` KK6GM
2011-04-18 21:01 ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-04-18 21:20 ` Nasser M. Abbasi
2011-04-19 2:43 ` George P.
2011-04-19 18:05 ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-04-19 19:34 ` George P.
2011-04-19 20:08 ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-04-19 1:10 ` Elias Salomão Helou Neto
2011-04-19 14:28 ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-04-19 17:40 ` Jeffrey Carter
2011-04-21 14:52 ` Elias Salomão Helou Neto
2011-04-21 18:58 ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-04-21 19:27 ` Hyman Rosen
2011-04-28 5:13 ` David Thompson
2011-04-28 13:41 ` Hyman Rosen
2011-05-05 8:39 ` David Thompson
2011-04-25 11:06 ` Paul Colin Gloster
2011-04-25 11:00 ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-04-25 12:12 ` Martin
2011-04-25 18:39 ` Paul Colin Gloster
2011-05-08 23:41 ` wilso
2011-05-20 10:41 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-05-20 16:04 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-04-18 0:12 ` George P.
2011-04-18 19:24 ` Elias Salomão Helou Neto
2011-04-19 1:22 ` George P.
2011-04-19 2:06 ` Elias Salomão Helou Neto
2011-04-19 2:37 ` Bill Findlay
2011-04-19 3:00 ` George P.
2011-04-17 19:19 ` Elias Salomão Helou Neto
2011-04-17 23:26 ` Gautier write-only
2011-04-17 23:43 ` Nasser M. Abbasi
2011-04-18 19:16 ` Elias Salomão Helou Neto
2011-04-18 23:10 ` Randy Brukardt
2011-04-19 1:36 ` Elias Salomão Helou Neto
2011-04-20 23:14 ` Randy Brukardt
2011-04-21 16:19 ` Elias Salomão Helou Neto
2011-04-21 17:36 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-04-21 17:43 ` Hyman Rosen
2011-04-21 19:44 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-04-22 6:16 ` Elias Salomão Helou Neto
2011-04-22 9:21 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-04-22 13:18 ` Hyman Rosen
2011-04-22 15:17 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-04-23 2:08 ` Elias Salomão Helou Neto
2011-04-23 7:23 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-04-23 9:42 ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-04-23 10:23 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-04-23 18:37 ` Elias Salomão Helou Neto
2011-04-23 21:36 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov [this message]
2011-04-24 11:27 ` Peter C. Chapin
2011-04-24 13:53 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-04-24 19:07 ` Nasser M. Abbasi
2011-04-24 19:46 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-04-24 21:20 ` Nasser M. Abbasi
2011-04-24 22:33 ` Elias Salomão Helou Neto
2011-04-25 7:09 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-04-25 20:46 ` Maciej Sobczak
2011-04-25 21:19 ` George P.
2011-04-26 6:18 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-04-26 6:58 ` Nasser M. Abbasi
2011-04-26 8:39 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-04-26 20:57 ` Maciej Sobczak
2011-04-27 8:00 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-04-27 8:19 ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-04-27 9:32 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-04-28 7:02 ` Maciej Sobczak
2011-04-28 7:41 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-04-28 10:24 ` Peter C. Chapin
2011-04-28 13:56 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-05-03 1:19 ` Nasser M. Abbasi
2011-05-03 6:05 ` J-P. Rosen
2011-05-03 6:15 ` Ludovic Brenta
2011-05-03 7:43 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-05-03 15:34 ` Bill Findlay
2011-05-03 7:53 ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-05-03 9:29 ` Simon Wright
2011-04-24 22:23 ` Elias Salomão Helou Neto
2011-04-25 7:10 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-04-24 20:37 ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-04-23 15:23 ` George P.
2011-04-23 17:28 ` Nasser M. Abbasi
2011-04-23 17:52 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-04-23 18:11 ` Nasser M. Abbasi
2011-04-23 20:47 ` George P.
2011-04-24 11:36 ` Peter C. Chapin
2011-04-25 11:43 ` Paul Colin Gloster
2011-04-23 16:56 ` Nasser M. Abbasi
2011-04-23 18:45 ` Elias Salomão Helou Neto
2011-04-22 12:15 ` J-P. Rosen
2011-04-22 14:56 ` Niklas Holsti
2011-04-21 23:29 ` Randy Brukardt
2011-04-22 6:29 ` Elias Salomão Helou Neto
2011-04-25 11:22 ` Paul Colin Gloster
2011-04-18 19:13 ` Elias Salomão Helou Neto
2011-04-20 5:11 ` J-P. Rosen
2011-04-20 15:45 ` KK6GM
2011-04-20 19:04 ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-04-20 21:09 ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-04-20 22:52 ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-04-21 14:18 ` Elias Salomão Helou Neto
2011-04-21 16:22 ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-04-21 19:25 ` John B. Matthews
2011-04-23 23:07 ` Gerd
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