From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, REPLYTO_WITHOUT_TO_CC autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Thread: 103376,a9b0810d3106d9b8 X-Google-NewGroupId: yes X-Google-Attributes: gida07f3367d7,domainid0,public,usenet X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII Path: g2news2.google.com!news3.google.com!feeder1-2.proxad.net!proxad.net!feeder2-2.proxad.net!newsfeed.arcor.de!newsspool3.arcor-online.net!news.arcor.de.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Dmitry A. Kazakov" Subject: Re: Fun with C Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada User-Agent: 40tude_Dialog/2.0.15.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Reply-To: mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de Organization: cbb software GmbH References: <27cf3992-4132-4483-9110-adc7a089cd4a@e8g2000vbz.googlegroups.com> <3ccf18a2-ba10-42bc-aeab-9368749961fb@a11g2000pro.googlegroups.com> <4c2b6a58-e3b6-47da-95e0-64853be5c1f9@v11g2000prb.googlegroups.com> <86748003-860f-4729-ae26-55be1e58ac2b@d27g2000vbz.googlegroups.com> <4b5748dc-60fa-4cec-a317-054626e9a1ca@d19g2000prh.googlegroups.com> <1908th3tyz101.1f6c5w8t9mggy.dlg@40tude.net> <2118e788-7b3e-4d25-8d0f-5e60498e3a3b@cu4g2000vbb.googlegroups.com> <1hnl95prvrt6i$.1s675gncbjxsu$.dlg@40tude.net> <5d44db50-ceff-4f4d-8bc7-714f31fbca06@hd10g2000vbb.googlegroups.com> <1uthrsrabx8di$.8i74uk28axo0.dlg@40tude.net> <84b83223-e191-4912-8f73-318deb4dd783@d19g2000prh.googlegroups.com> Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 23:36:36 +0200 Message-ID: <1j2bi0982bjcs.1beq9xn9za9yb$.dlg@40tude.net> NNTP-Posting-Date: 23 Apr 2011 23:36:38 CEST NNTP-Posting-Host: 85227882.newsspool3.arcor-online.net X-Trace: DXC=fYTH[SS4W0VV0Pe9PRnbJ\McF=Q^Z^V3X4Fo<]lROoRQ8kF On Sat, 23 Apr 2011 11:37:00 -0700 (PDT), Elias Salom�o Helou Neto wrote: > On Apr 23, 4:23�am, "Dmitry A. Kazakov" > wrote: >> On Fri, 22 Apr 2011 19:08:33 -0700 (PDT), Elias Salom�o Helou Neto wrote: >> >>> On Apr 22, 6:21�am, "Dmitry A. Kazakov" >>> wrote: >> >>>> Nevertheless, future professional programmers should never be exposed to C >>>> as the first language. It is like teaching physics in the school. Pupils >>>> first learn the physics of XIX century. When they made 3/4, they are told: >>>> guys, that was wrong! Here is how it goes! Programmers must learn concepts >>>> and techniques which C cannot illustrate. What C can illustrate is how not >>>> to program. >> >>> When it comes to physics, the main reason to teach classical >>> mechanical is that it is actually a good approximation to modern >>> theories and the math is far more simple. Nobody will say "guys, that >>> was wrong!" because that is not wrong, it just must be used within its >>> valid limits. >> >> I heard that wrong argument so many times. > > Certainly you've not heard it from good physicists, but from rather > stupid ones. Let me state it clearly: Classical Mechanics isn't wrong > at all. It is the best and most useful approximation for a wide range > of phenomena. 3.14 might be a useful approximation of Pi, but not Pi. > Why would someone use Quantum Mechanics or Relativity to > compute velocities when designing an automatic train control system? Why would anybody consider the Earth round? Let us start teaching students that the Earth is flat, after all it is a useful approximation for building construction. Later you can tell them that it is not very flat... >>> It is quite different with programming languages, as C is actually >>> harder than Pascal, which is a great tool for teaching programming. >> >> In which sense is C harder? I bet students find it simple. It is hard to >> teach concepts of software design on example of C? > > Bauhaus explained it very well. And why on earth would I be teaching > software design on an introductory course on programming? Maybe because it supposed to be *introductory*? Is it an introduction into C or into programming? I have no idea how to teach students programming, I doubt that it must or can be taught, but it is obvious to me as a consumer, that what is taught is mostly useless and often damaging. > It is much more about algorithm, data structures and the language itself. A "Newtonian mechanics" of coding. Again, I am not a teacher, but programming today is not very much about algorithms, structures and even concrete languages. Not that fresh students knew much about algorithms or structures, that is not their biggest problem. >> But Newtonian mechanics >> is perfect for teaching cosmology, quantum effects, optics, fields etc? > > Do you want to teach this stuff to high school students? I don't get > your idea here. Certainly yes, if it is about physics. -- Regards, Dmitry A. Kazakov http://www.dmitry-kazakov.de