Re: Fun with C

["Vinzent Hoefler" <0439279208b62c95f1880bf0f8776eeb@t-domaingrabbing.de>]

Georg Bauhaus wrote:

> On 4/20/11 9:04 PM, Vinzent Hoefler wrote:
>
>> <http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg14/www/charter>:
>>
>> |Some of the facets of the spirit of C can be summarized in phrases like
>> |(a) Trust the programmer.
>> |(b) Don't prevent the programmer from doing what needs to be done.
>> |(c) Keep the language small and simple.
>> |(d) Provide only one way to do an operation.
>> |(e) Make it fast, even if it is not guaranteed to be portable.
>
> Not much different from what is true about Ada.

I am quite sure, that the meaning of "trust the programmer" is
completely different here. More along the lines of "if in doubt,
the programmer takes precedence".

Also for the "prevention". Ada doesn't prevent you from doing bad things,
but at least it makes it hard for you - and visible for others.

> (c) The C standard is about the same size as Ada's, isn't it?
> C is simple?

It has less pages at least: Just checked, my copy of the C99 PDF has
554 pages, the ARM05 has 791 pages. But considering that the ARM is
much wordier than its C counterpart...

> (d) Are there two ways to do an operation in Ada?

Less so than in C.

> (e) Some Ada programs are fast and still guaranteed to be portable.
> That's true of some C programs as well.  Ada programs might need unchecked
> conversions and representation clauses to make a program non-portable.

There are easier ways to make it non-portable. Using Integer and assuming
'Size of 32, for instance, just like someone would in C when using "int".

> So I guess C's (e) is working around the fact that C's choices
> would not allow the programmer to say what needs to be done?

Like the lack of being able to define the Endianess of bit-records?

That's what the charter says:

|3. C code can be non-portable. Although it strove to give programmers the
|opportunity to write truly portable programs, the Committee did not want to
|force programmers into writing portably, to preclude the use of C as a
|``high-level assembler;'' the ability to write machine-specific code is one
|of the strengths of C.

So, their understanding of "what needs to be done" seems more like "forgot
the syntax of my assembler, lemme use C instead". ;)


Vinzent.

-- 
A C program is like a fast dance on a newly waxed dance floor by people carrying
razors.
     --  Waldi Ravens