From: Shark8 <onewingedshark@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Should Inline be private in the private part of a package spec?
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2012 17:50:14 -0700 (PDT)
Date: 2012-08-14T17:50:14-07:00 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <9c19af7c-b50a-499f-970f-45f0f6844226@googlegroups.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <op.wi119xd8ka8ora@aspire.local>
On Tuesday, August 14, 2012 5:59:47 PM UTC-6, Vasiliy Molostov wrote:
> Shark8 <onewingedshark@gmail.com> писал(а) в своём письме Wed, 15 Aug 2012
> 00:41:06 +0400:
>
> > On Tuesday, August 14, 2012 9:19:02 AM UTC-6, Vasiliy Molostov wrote:
> >> Shark8 <onewingedshark@gmail.com> писал(а) в своём письме Tue, 14 Aug
> >> 2012
>
> > Oh, I'm not saying it has an unclear purpose. I'm saying that it's a
> > hard format to use nicely, to keep things correct with. Though I do pity
> > those who have been forced to work projects where regexes are used on
> > XML. (That seems to be a surprisingly common attempt, though it's not
> > possible as it requires something more powerful; the same as between an
> > FSM and PDA, map to those problems, IIRC.)
>
>
> xml is not for human, it is interchange format, e.g. between applications,
> machines, tools etc.
> and has nice and rich auto-validation capabilities.
Which are routinely subverted by those that break out regex as their "parser" of choice. Further it is a horrible format for random-access, as Randy pointed out, requiring a read-through (parsing) for anything; even if you know exactly *where* in your tree-structure it is. {By being in text-format you lose a *lot* of desirable properties.} This is what makes it unsuitable for many data-intensive applications. I had the chance to work with Combat XXI a few years back --absolutely HUGE Java-program; so much so that ANT couldn't auto-compile it in one go and I needed to write a utility to generate sub-make instructions iterating over the subdirectory tree, leaves-to-root, to ensure that everything compile-- as I was talking to one of the other devs they mentioned that they had to write a binary-equivalent of XML for saving the simulation... because saving as text made the load too slow, and the text bloated the file-sizes to unacceptable levels.
So, even where I concede that XML may be useful (storing objects and their states) it has shortcomings. {Some parsers require keeping the XML structure in-memory; this creates a similar problem as Combat XXI's run-saving, but becomes a problem much earlier: most computers don't have a dozen GB to throw around at a problem.}
>
> > I don't think that's true. (That XML is the best choice for compilers to
> > use, I mean; I haven't had cause to use ASIS so I can't comment on it.)
> it is a reality, and not a matter to trust it's true or not.
Given the above [counter-]example, I believe that I have at least given enough evidence to cause one to rethink that statement. A compiler needs a lot of information, true; but that doesn't mean that such information should be bloated by its transport-layer -- that would be like applying multiple analog-to-digital and digital-to-analog conversions in audio systems: doing a lot of work for nothing, that A-to-D step should happen only once, and [some of] the most hardcore audiophiles will invest in things on the analog side of the switch, which is why you can find amplifiers using vacuum-tubes.)
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2012-08-15 0:56 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 183+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2012-08-03 13:30 Should Inline be private in the private part of a package spec? Georg Bauhaus
2012-08-03 14:34 ` Martin Krischik
2012-08-03 15:51 ` Adam Beneschan
2012-08-03 18:07 ` Robert A Duff
2012-08-06 3:09 ` Randy Brukardt
2012-08-06 14:33 ` Robert A Duff
2012-08-06 15:50 ` Vasiliy Molostov
2012-08-06 17:58 ` Georg Bauhaus
2012-08-06 21:01 ` Vasiliy Molostov
2012-08-06 21:52 ` Georg Bauhaus
2012-08-06 22:10 ` Georg Bauhaus
2012-08-06 23:12 ` Vasiliy Molostov
2012-08-07 8:29 ` Georg Bauhaus
2012-08-09 21:44 ` Randy Brukardt
2012-08-08 1:48 ` Shark8
2012-08-08 7:38 ` Simon Wright
2012-08-08 8:10 ` Georg Bauhaus
2012-08-09 21:39 ` Randy Brukardt
2012-08-10 1:49 ` Britt
2012-08-10 3:10 ` Shark8
2012-08-10 6:00 ` Vasiliy Molostov
2012-08-10 16:34 ` Shark8
2012-08-10 22:37 ` Vasiliy Molostov
2012-08-11 3:44 ` Shark8
2012-08-11 4:42 ` Vasiliy Molostov
2012-08-13 11:53 ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2012-08-10 7:37 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-08-10 16:45 ` Shark8
2012-08-10 17:03 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-08-10 21:35 ` Shark8
2012-08-10 22:10 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-08-11 3:27 ` Shark8
2012-08-11 5:25 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-08-11 4:48 ` Vasiliy Molostov
2012-08-11 5:12 ` Shark8
2012-08-10 17:06 ` Simon Wright
2012-08-11 0:46 ` Randy Brukardt
2012-08-11 1:57 ` Vasiliy Molostov
2012-08-13 22:16 ` Randy Brukardt
2012-08-14 2:52 ` Vasiliy Molostov
2012-08-14 14:44 ` Shark8
2012-08-14 15:09 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-08-14 22:04 ` Randy Brukardt
2012-08-15 7:51 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-08-15 11:08 ` Georg Bauhaus
2012-08-15 11:55 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-08-15 15:49 ` Georg Bauhaus
2012-08-15 16:24 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-08-15 16:53 ` Georg Bauhaus
2012-08-15 18:53 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-08-15 20:39 ` Georg Bauhaus
2012-08-21 22:46 ` Randy Brukardt
2012-08-22 12:49 ` Georg Bauhaus
2012-08-22 13:10 ` Vasiliy Molostov
2012-08-22 21:55 ` Randy Brukardt
2012-08-23 7:56 ` Georg Bauhaus
2012-08-23 9:00 ` Georg Bauhaus
2012-08-24 4:22 ` Randy Brukardt
2012-08-24 10:17 ` Georg Bauhaus
2012-08-24 15:07 ` Vasiliy Molostov
2012-08-24 22:09 ` Randy Brukardt
2012-08-15 21:29 ` Georg Bauhaus
2012-08-16 7:30 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-08-16 11:18 ` Georg Bauhaus
2012-08-16 12:13 ` Vasiliy Molostov
2012-08-16 12:56 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-08-16 18:31 ` Georg Bauhaus
2012-08-16 19:58 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-08-16 22:00 ` Vasiliy Molostov
2012-08-17 18:41 ` Georg Bauhaus
2012-08-18 6:24 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-08-18 8:05 ` Vasiliy Molostov
2012-08-18 21:02 ` Shark8
2012-08-18 21:52 ` Simon Wright
2012-08-19 1:34 ` Shark8
2012-08-19 13:03 ` Simon Wright
2012-08-18 23:33 ` Vasiliy Molostov
2012-08-20 13:51 ` Georg Bauhaus
2012-08-20 14:15 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-08-20 16:22 ` Georg Bauhaus
2012-08-20 18:42 ` Vasiliy Molostov
2012-08-20 19:28 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-08-20 20:27 ` Vasiliy Molostov
2012-08-21 11:49 ` Georg Bauhaus
2012-08-21 13:12 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-08-21 14:17 ` Georg Bauhaus
2012-08-21 15:06 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-08-21 15:29 ` Pascal Obry
2012-08-21 19:12 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-08-21 16:18 ` Georg Bauhaus
2012-08-21 19:18 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-08-21 21:35 ` Pascal Obry
2012-08-21 23:11 ` Randy Brukardt
2012-08-21 23:37 ` Vasiliy Molostov
2012-08-22 21:40 ` Randy Brukardt
2012-08-21 23:54 ` Shark8
2012-08-22 6:14 ` Pascal Obry
2012-08-23 2:29 ` Shark8
2012-08-22 7:32 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-08-22 13:12 ` Georg Bauhaus
2012-08-22 14:30 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-08-22 16:48 ` Georg Bauhaus
2012-08-22 17:44 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-08-22 19:59 ` Georg Bauhaus
2012-08-22 20:08 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-08-22 20:29 ` Georg Bauhaus
2012-08-23 7:06 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-08-23 8:08 ` Georg Bauhaus
2012-08-23 8:38 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-08-23 9:58 ` Georg Bauhaus
2012-08-23 10:27 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-08-23 11:30 ` Georg Bauhaus
2012-08-23 12:28 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-08-23 0:12 ` Vasiliy Molostov
2012-08-24 4:40 ` Randy Brukardt
2012-08-24 7:37 ` Vasiliy Molostov
2012-08-24 10:03 ` Georg Bauhaus
2012-08-24 22:06 ` Randy Brukardt
2012-08-22 21:18 ` Georg Bauhaus
2012-08-23 7:23 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-08-23 8:56 ` Georg Bauhaus
2012-08-23 10:13 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-08-23 11:33 ` Georg Bauhaus
2012-08-23 12:45 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-08-23 13:31 ` Vasiliy Molostov
2012-08-23 17:42 ` Georg Bauhaus
2012-08-23 17:41 ` Georg Bauhaus
2012-08-23 11:35 ` Georg Bauhaus
2012-08-23 11:39 ` Georg Bauhaus
2012-08-23 12:33 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-08-23 17:33 ` Georg Bauhaus
2012-08-24 4:48 ` Randy Brukardt
2012-08-24 9:56 ` Georg Bauhaus
2012-08-21 16:25 ` Georg Bauhaus
2012-08-21 22:40 ` Randy Brukardt
2012-08-14 15:11 ` Georg Bauhaus
2012-08-14 20:30 ` Shark8
2012-08-15 11:47 ` Georg Bauhaus
2012-08-15 17:18 ` Shark8
2012-08-14 15:19 ` Vasiliy Molostov
2012-08-14 20:41 ` Shark8
2012-08-14 23:59 ` Vasiliy Molostov
2012-08-15 0:50 ` Shark8 [this message]
2012-08-15 3:02 ` Vasiliy Molostov
2012-08-14 22:16 ` Randy Brukardt
2012-08-14 23:55 ` Vasiliy Molostov
2012-08-15 6:35 ` Simon Wright
2012-08-21 22:31 ` Randy Brukardt
2012-08-22 0:15 ` Vasiliy Molostov
2012-08-22 22:08 ` Randy Brukardt
2012-08-23 0:00 ` Vasiliy Molostov
2012-08-23 7:02 ` Niklas Holsti
2012-08-24 4:37 ` Randy Brukardt
2012-08-13 12:03 ` Project files (Was: Should Inline be private in the private part of a package spec?) Jacob Sparre Andersen
2012-08-13 22:12 ` Randy Brukardt
2012-08-10 8:12 ` Should Inline be private in the private part of a package spec? Georg Bauhaus
2012-08-06 23:09 ` Vasiliy Molostov
2012-08-07 9:33 ` Georg Bauhaus
2012-08-07 13:09 ` Vasiliy Molostov
2012-08-07 13:41 ` Georg Bauhaus
2012-08-07 14:06 ` Vasiliy Molostov
2012-08-09 22:32 ` Randy Brukardt
2012-08-07 13:45 ` Vasiliy Molostov
2012-08-07 13:55 ` Georg Bauhaus
2012-08-07 14:12 ` Vasiliy Molostov
2012-08-09 21:56 ` Randy Brukardt
2012-08-07 0:25 ` Vasiliy Molostov
2012-08-07 10:01 ` Simon Wright
2012-08-07 13:21 ` Vasiliy Molostov
2012-08-07 17:28 ` Simon Wright
2012-08-07 19:26 ` Vasiliy Molostov
2012-08-07 13:34 ` Vasiliy Molostov
2012-08-07 17:31 ` Simon Wright
2012-08-07 13:48 ` Georg Bauhaus
2012-08-07 17:47 ` Simon Wright
2012-08-09 22:34 ` Randy Brukardt
2012-08-10 14:26 ` Simon Wright
2012-08-09 21:33 ` Randy Brukardt
2012-08-09 22:18 ` Randy Brukardt
2012-08-09 22:29 ` Shark8
2012-08-10 0:12 ` Randy Brukardt
2012-08-12 21:35 ` Robert A Duff
2012-08-03 16:15 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
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