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From: "Per Dalgas Jakobsen" <i@hate.spam>
Subject: Improving Ada's image - Was: 7E7 Flight Controls Electronics
Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 13:46:42 +0200
Date: 2004-05-30T13:46:42+02:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <40b9c99e$0$268$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk> (raw)

> That's not so easy. I've seen lot of project managers chosing C++ even if
> they knew that Ada was cheaper/safer. As I said that's not so easy... This
is
> political, choising a technology that everybody uses can't be something
that
> we'll be reproached to you if the project is not on schedule/budget!

The good old story: "You don't get fired for choosing IBM".
The good old story on a new bottle: "You don't get fired for choosing
Microsoft".
The good old story on a another new bottle: "You don't get fired for
choosing C/C++".

One way to make Ada come through, is to make it visible to them. Not just to
those at the "safety-critical" segment, but to the entire software segment.
A couple of years ago I suggested changing from C/C++ to Ada on a company
strategy meeting. The suggestion was met with comments like: "No real
company is using Ada for anything", "Ada is a heavy/slow and expensive
language", "Only projects with a *lot* of money can do that", "We are not
building rockets or aeroplanes, we are just building ...".

Even though you can counter-argue most of their claims, they still have it
in their stomach and won't make the leap.

Instead of advertising for Ada in software magazines, web-sites, etc. I
believe that Ada needs to get an "image-lift" at executive level. Imagine if
we could get to the point when project managers are suggesting C/C++ and the
executive asks: "Why not use Ada?" :-p

It doesn't take many arguments to convince most serious programmers of the
advantages in Ada (even though there *are* religious extremists around, that
believe void-pointers and goto-statements are the only true way) - But it
really doesn't matter if the project managers doesn't have the courage to
even suggest it, because of the opinion of the executives.

Executives will like to hear:
*) that the reusability factor of Ada is magnitudes higher than for C/C++.
*) that Ada is much better suited than C/C++ for larger projects with
several (potential distanced) developers. And by larger, I mean almost any
project with a project manager.
*) that Ada projects results in fewer bugs at the customer.
I'll bet that this news-group can come up with a dozen or more easy-to-prove
arguments...

But another important thing to nail into their heads are: It does *not* have
to be expensive to choose Ada. Most visible projects are safety-critical
once, with budgets in the "heavy league".
We need to establish a common knowledge, that Ada is as cheap as choosing
C/C++ (buying toolchains), and that even small projects will have a higher
probability to complete on time with fewer bugs.
The cost of sending people on Ada courses will be insignificant in anything
but the narrowest view.


But how can we get the attention of the executives?
Let the brainstorm start ;-)

Per





             reply	other threads:[~2004-05-30 11:46 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 216+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2004-05-30 11:46 Per Dalgas Jakobsen [this message]
2004-05-30 16:13 ` Improving Ada's image - Was: 7E7 Flight Controls Electronics Pascal Obry
2004-05-30 18:03   ` Luke A. Guest
2004-05-30 19:09     ` Per Dalgas Jakobsen
2004-05-31  2:28       ` Richard  Riehle
2004-05-31 15:33         ` Wes Groleau
2004-06-01  2:56           ` Hyman Rosen
2004-06-01 14:51             ` Wes Groleau
2004-06-07 16:29             ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-06-07 17:44               ` Hyman Rosen
2004-06-08 16:09                 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-06-08 17:30                   ` Hyman Rosen
2004-06-08 20:38                     ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-06-08 22:23                       ` Hyman Rosen
2004-06-09  2:27                         ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-06-09  4:41                           ` I R T
2004-06-09  6:43                             ` Richard  Riehle
2004-06-10  6:53                               ` Randy Brukardt
2004-06-12  3:16                                 ` Robert I. Eachus
2004-06-09  6:39                           ` Hyman Rosen
2004-06-09  7:44                             ` I R T
2004-06-09 12:13                               ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-06-09 12:34                             ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-06-09 21:13                               ` Hyman Rosen
2004-06-10  2:51                                 ` Wes Groleau
2004-06-10 15:57                                   ` Hyman Rosen
2004-06-10 17:18                                     ` Pascal Obry
2004-06-10 12:13                             ` Marin David Condic
2004-06-11 12:48                               ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-06-11 17:31                                 ` Marin David Condic
2004-06-14  2:30                                   ` Berend de Boer
2004-06-14  2:47                                     ` I R T
2004-06-14  3:10                                     ` Hyman Rosen
2004-06-14 11:49                                       ` Marin David Condic
2004-06-14 16:28                                         ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-06-14 17:34                                           ` Hyman Rosen
2004-06-15 11:35                                             ` Marin David Condic
2004-06-15 23:02                                               ` Brian May
2004-06-16 11:37                                                 ` Marin David Condic
2004-06-21 14:56                                               ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2004-06-23 20:19                                                 ` Randy Brukardt
2004-06-15 16:30                                             ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-06-15 11:26                                           ` Marin David Condic
2004-06-15 16:43                                             ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-06-15 18:51                                               ` Hyman Rosen
2004-06-15 21:02                                                 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-06-15 22:01                                                   ` Hyman Rosen
2004-06-15 22:08                                                     ` Ed Falis
2004-06-15 22:26                                                       ` Hyman Rosen
2004-06-17 15:50                                                         ` Robert I. Eachus
2004-06-17 16:12                                                           ` Hyman Rosen
2004-06-17 21:05                                                             ` Pascal Obry
2004-06-17 21:47                                                               ` Hyman Rosen
2004-06-17 22:18                                                                 ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-06-18  5:19                                                                   ` Brian May
2004-06-18 14:44                                                                     ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-06-17 23:02                                                               ` Brian May
2004-06-18  7:50                                                                 ` Martin Dowie
2004-06-19 20:40                                                                   ` Robert I. Eachus
2004-06-19 18:10                                                               ` Ragged arrays of strings (Was: Improving Ada's image) Jacob Sparre Andersen
2004-06-20 22:01                                                                 ` Pascal Obry
2004-06-19 20:54                                                             ` Improving Ada's image - Was: 7E7 Flight Controls Electronics Robert I. Eachus
2004-06-20  2:20                                                               ` Jeffrey Carter
2004-06-20  4:24                                                               ` tmoran
2004-06-20 15:06                                                               ` Dr. Adrian Wrigley
2004-06-21 15:30                                                                 ` Enum'Image (Was: Improving Ada's image) Jacob Sparre Andersen
2004-06-21 16:06                                                                   ` Dr. Adrian Wrigley
2004-06-21 16:53                                                                     ` Alexander E. Kopilovich
2004-06-22 21:38                                                                       ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2004-06-23 15:42                                                                         ` Alexander E. Kopilovich
2004-06-23 17:15                                                                           ` Larry Kilgallen
2004-06-22 13:26                                                                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-06-23 16:04                                                                   ` Frank J. Lhota
2004-06-25  0:07                                                                     ` Enum'Image Jacob Sparre Andersen
2004-06-25 15:55                                                                       ` Enum'Image Frank J. Lhota
2004-06-23 20:29                                                                   ` Enum'Image (Was: Improving Ada's image) Randy Brukardt
2004-06-23 23:35                                                                     ` Dr. Adrian Wrigley
2004-06-25  0:15                                                                       ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2004-06-26  5:11                                                               ` Improving Ada's image - Was: 7E7 Flight Controls Electronics Robert I. Eachus
2004-06-27  1:00                                                                 ` Jeffrey Carter
2004-06-27  2:33                                                                 ` Robert I. Eachus
2004-06-15 23:30                                                     ` Dale Stanbrough
2004-06-15 21:59                                               ` Marin David Condic
2004-06-25  4:21                                               ` Enum'Image (Was: Improving Ada's image) Larry Kilgallen
2004-06-15 19:28                                             ` Improving Ada's image - Was: 7E7 Flight Controls Electronics Alexander E. Kopilovich
2004-06-15 21:04                                               ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-06-15 22:13                                                 ` Marin David Condic
2004-06-16  0:05                                                 ` Alexander E. Kopilovich
2004-06-15 22:08                                               ` Marin David Condic
2004-06-15 23:06                                                 ` tmoran
2004-06-16 11:47                                                   ` Marin David Condic
2004-06-17  1:33                                                     ` Brian May
2004-06-17 12:09                                                       ` Marin David Condic
2004-06-16  0:56                                                 ` Alexander E. Kopilovich
2004-06-16 11:54                                                   ` Marin David Condic
2004-06-15  1:21                                       ` Alexander E. Kopilovich
2004-07-01  4:08                                         ` Dave Thompson
2004-07-04 19:00                                           ` Robert I. Eachus
2004-06-14 11:45                                     ` Marin David Condic
2004-06-14 13:20                                     ` Larry Kilgallen
2004-06-15 11:39                                       ` Marin David Condic
2004-06-19 23:14                                         ` Pylinius
2004-06-15 11:41                                     ` David Starner
2004-06-15 16:29                                       ` Richard  Riehle
2004-06-15 17:06                                       ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-06-11 17:53                                 ` Hyman Rosen
2004-06-11 18:56                                   ` Marin David Condic
2004-06-11 23:23                                     ` Hyman Rosen
2004-06-12  3:08                                     ` Ada BIND was: " Robert I. Eachus
2004-06-12 12:03                                       ` Marin David Condic
2004-06-12 12:47                                         ` Jeff C,
2004-06-13 12:22                                           ` Marin David Condic
2004-06-14 16:33                                             ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-06-13  6:08                                         ` Russ
2004-06-13 10:28                                           ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-06-13 14:49                                             ` Stephen Leake
2004-06-13 20:51                                             ` Russ
2004-06-13 23:15                                           ` Robert I. Eachus
2004-06-14  2:09                                             ` Hyman Rosen
2004-06-15  0:02                                               ` Alexander E. Kopilovich
2004-06-15  2:40                                                 ` Brian May
2004-06-15 12:46                                                   ` Frank J. Lhota
2004-06-15 18:53                                                   ` Jeffrey Carter
2004-06-15 22:09                                                     ` Hyman Rosen
2004-07-01  4:08                                                   ` Dave Thompson
2004-06-14 16:43                                           ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-06-15 11:47                                             ` Marin David Condic
2004-06-15 16:21                                               ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-06-15 19:36                                               ` Frank J. Lhota
2004-06-15 19:51                                                 ` Björn Persson
2004-06-16 13:44                                                   ` Frank J. Lhota
2004-06-15 22:13                                                 ` Hyman Rosen
2004-06-15 22:32                                                   ` Björn Persson
2004-06-15 23:04                                                     ` Hyman Rosen
2004-06-15 23:23                                                       ` Brian May
2004-06-15 23:26                                                       ` tmoran
2004-06-16 18:11                                                         ` Ludovic Brenta
2004-06-15 23:33                                                       ` Björn Persson
2004-06-15 23:18                                                     ` Dale Stanbrough
2004-06-15 23:22                                                       ` Hyman Rosen
2004-06-15 23:37                                                         ` Dale Stanbrough
2004-06-15 23:59                                                       ` Björn Persson
2004-06-16 13:38                                         ` Ada BIND was: Improving Ada's image - Was: 7E7 Flight Controls Larry Kilgallen
2004-06-09 10:52                           ` Ada operating systems Peter C. Chapin
2004-06-09 12:07                         ` Improving Ada's image - Was: 7E7 Flight Controls Electronics Georg Bauhaus
2004-06-11  7:05                           ` Hyman Rosen
2004-06-11 15:07                             ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-06-09 12:32                         ` Marin David Condic
2004-06-15 20:34                         ` Larry Kilgallen
2004-06-08 19:51                   ` Wes Groleau
2004-06-08 22:26                     ` Hyman Rosen
2004-06-09  4:39                   ` I R T
2004-06-09  8:13                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-06-09 12:42                       ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-06-09 12:38                     ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-06-09 16:23                     ` Robert I. Eachus
2004-06-09 16:38                       ` Marius Amado Alves
2004-06-09 20:51                         ` Robert I. Eachus
2004-06-10 12:43                         ` Marin David Condic
2004-06-15 19:55                   ` Larry Kilgallen
2004-06-09 23:45                 ` Richard  Riehle
2004-06-10 12:58                   ` Marin David Condic
2004-06-11 18:03                   ` Russ
2004-06-14 16:16                     ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-06-01  2:45         ` Hyman Rosen
2004-06-04 17:24       ` Improving Ada's image - Was: 7E7 Flight Controls Electronics (why not Universities?) Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-06-04 18:46         ` Marius Amado Alves
2004-06-07 12:58           ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-06-07 17:11             ` Ada in colleges and universities Peter C. Chapin
2004-06-07 17:29               ` Marius Amado Alves
2004-06-07 19:47                 ` Peter C. Chapin
2004-06-07 18:39               ` Björn Persson
2004-06-07 18:55                 ` Marius Amado Alves
2004-06-07 19:21                   ` Jerome Hugues
2004-06-07 19:27                   ` (see below)
2004-06-07 19:44                     ` Marius Amado Alves
2004-06-08  1:14                     ` Alexander E. Kopilovich
2004-06-07 22:06                   ` Björn Persson
2004-06-07 22:17                     ` (see below)
2004-06-08  9:30                   ` Adrian Knoth
2004-06-08 17:12                     ` Jeffrey Carter
2004-06-08 18:19                       ` Adrian Knoth
2004-06-08  9:53                   ` Jano
2004-06-09  8:55                   ` Pascal Obry
2004-06-07 19:53                 ` Peter C. Chapin
2004-06-07 21:54                   ` Björn Persson
2004-06-09  3:52                     ` I R T
2004-06-09 12:51                       ` Björn Persson
2004-06-10  2:58                         ` Wes Groleau
2004-06-07 22:03                   ` Ludovic Brenta
2004-06-08  0:16                     ` Jeffrey Carter
2004-06-08  5:12                       ` Ludovic Brenta
2004-06-08 16:14               ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-06-06 13:34         ` Improving Ada's image - Was: 7E7 Flight Controls Electronics (why not Universities?) Ralph W. Reid
2004-06-07  2:38           ` Robert I. Eachus
2004-05-30 18:47 ` Improving Ada's image - Was: 7E7 Flight Controls Electronics Richard  Riehle
2004-05-31 12:57   ` Marin David Condic
2004-05-31 23:36     ` Berend de Boer
2004-06-01  0:41       ` tmoran
2004-06-01 11:04       ` Marin David Condic
2004-06-01 14:44       ` Wes Groleau
2004-06-01 18:43       ` Pascal Obry
2004-06-07 16:35   ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-05-31 12:45 ` Marin David Condic
2004-05-31 20:55 ` Improving Ada's image Björn Persson
2004-06-01  0:41   ` Alexander E. Kopilovich
2004-06-01 11:23   ` Marin David Condic
2004-06-01  2:40 ` Improving Ada's image - Was: 7E7 Flight Controls Electronics Hyman Rosen
2004-06-01 21:14   ` Per Dalgas Jakobsen
2004-06-02  1:12     ` Ed Falis
2004-06-02 10:59     ` Stefan Nobis
2004-06-03  4:19       ` Jeffrey Carter
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2004-05-31  9:22 Rod Chapman
2004-06-01 11:30 ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-06-18 14:43 abrandon
2004-06-18 17:49 ` Wes Groleau
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