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From: "Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)" <yannick_duchene@yahoo.fr>
Subject: Re: Ada noob here! Is Ada widely used?
Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2010 16:44:31 +0200
Date: 2010-06-07T16:44:31+02:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <op.vdxpwhmeule2fv@garhos> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 91w8y6qvtty4.16d1ujzrvbi44.dlg@40tude.net

Le Mon, 07 Jun 2010 15:27:45 +0200, Dmitry A. Kazakov  
<mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> a écrit:
> They will rather distract from design in favor
> debugging.
As an old Eiffel “advocator”, I can say no, as long as you read contract  
clauses before using any component holding such a contract (just like you  
have to know the signature of a subprogram before being able to use it).  
And whenever an error occurred, which is caught (likely early) by a clause  
violation, you then have an interpretation of the error. There is nothing  
like an interpretation, when in a debugger, you see this variable X has  
this value Y which turns into the Z behavior. Even if a clause violation  
pass control to a debugger (I had created my own in that purpose with  
SmallEiffel), you still have a debugger with an interpretation of an  
erroneous state.

> Ada was designed as a language of little or no debugging.
> Unfortunately it rapidly loses the ground.
Agree. But there is no magic keyword, no magic syntactic construct, this  
target needs paradigm, process and construction techniques. And this is  
the purpose of DbC. Ada needs something to target “little or no  
debugging”, it cannot do it by-itself. I agree there are other ways, more  
strict and formal ways to achieve the same, ... however, this would  
unlikely meet a large community agreement (for the reasons given before).


-- 
There is even better than a pragma Assert: a SPARK --# check.
--# check C and WhoKnowWhat and YouKnowWho;
--# assert Ada;
--  i.e. forget about previous premises which leads to conclusion
--  and start with new conclusion as premise.



  parent reply	other threads:[~2010-06-07 14:44 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 230+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2010-05-20 12:53 Ada noob here! Is Ada widely used? Duke Normandin
2010-05-20 13:59 ` Alex Mentis
2010-05-20 15:05   ` Pascal Obry
2010-05-20 15:27     ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-05-20 15:30   ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-05-20 18:58     ` Duke Normandin
2010-05-20 19:36       ` Manuel Gomez
2010-05-20 19:53         ` Duke Normandin
2010-05-20 21:20       ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-05-20 23:17       ` Gautier write-only
2010-05-20 23:46         ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-05-21 14:07           ` Duke Normandin
2010-05-21  0:30         ` Marc A. Criley
2010-05-21  2:17           ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-05-21 20:34             ` Marc A. Criley
2010-05-21  5:18         ` Randy Brukardt
2010-05-22 14:54           ` Gautier write-only
2010-05-21 16:01         ` Duke Normandin
2010-05-22  9:57           ` Stephen Leake
2010-05-21  5:09     ` Randy Brukardt
2010-05-21 14:33       ` Duke Normandin
2010-05-20 19:06   ` Duke Normandin
2010-05-20 21:19     ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-05-21  1:08   ` tmoran
2010-05-20 15:33 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-05-20 17:21 ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2010-05-20 18:49 ` Gautier write-only
2010-05-20 19:51   ` Duke Normandin
2010-05-20 21:05     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-05-20 22:58       ` Duke Normandin
2010-05-23  2:41         ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-05-23 13:26           ` Duke Normandin
2010-05-23 16:50             ` Bruno Le Hyaric
2010-05-23 17:37               ` Duke Normandin
2010-05-23 20:32               ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2010-05-23 20:59                 ` Duke Normandin
2010-05-24  9:00                   ` Stephen Leake
2010-05-24  9:31                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-05-24 13:10                       ` Duke Normandin
2010-05-25  2:07                         ` Stephen Leake
2010-05-25  2:02                       ` Stephen Leake
2010-05-25  9:05                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-05-25 17:36                           ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-05-25 18:50                             ` Warren
2010-05-26  7:16                           ` Stephen Leake
2010-05-26  8:17                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-06-03  2:59                         ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-06-03  7:23                           ` Niklas Holsti
2010-06-03  7:47                             ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-06-04  9:09                               ` Stephen Leake
2010-06-04  9:08                           ` Stephen Leake
2010-06-04  9:27                             ` Brian Drummond
2010-06-04  9:40                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-06-04 10:55                               ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-06-04 12:23                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-06-04 12:59                                   ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-06-05  4:00                               ` Stephen Leake
2010-06-05  6:13                                 ` tmoran
2010-06-05  8:00                                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-06-05  9:05                                     ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-06-05  9:30                                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-06-05  9:45                                         ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-06-06  6:36                                         ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2010-06-05 17:59                                     ` tmoran
2010-06-05 19:59                                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-06-05 20:41                                         ` tmoran
2010-06-06  7:18                                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-06-06 19:27                                             ` tmoran
2010-06-07  7:48                                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-06-06  3:46                                         ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-06-06  7:23                                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-06-06 10:22                                         ` Simon Wright
2010-06-06 11:18                                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-06-06 13:58                                             ` Simon Wright
2010-06-06 17:22                                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-06-05 12:16                                 ` Simon Wright
2010-06-04 19:23                           ` Fritz Wuehler
2010-06-04 21:10                             ` Martin Krischik
2010-06-04 22:02                             ` Dirk Craeynest
2010-06-05  3:33                             ` Duke Normandin
2010-06-05 23:17                               ` Non scrivetemi
2010-06-06  4:45                                 ` Duke Normandin
2010-06-06 16:41                                   ` Fritz Wuehler
2010-06-07  2:15                                     ` Duke Normandin
2010-06-07  6:06                                       ` Non scrivetemi
2010-06-05  7:47                             ` Georg Bauhaus
2010-06-05 22:43                               ` starwars
2010-06-04 21:09                       ` Martin Krischik
2010-05-24 13:20                     ` Duke Normandin
2010-05-25  2:10                       ` Stephen Leake
2010-05-23 18:32             ` (see below)
2010-05-23 19:10               ` Duke Normandin
2010-05-23 19:22                 ` (see below)
2010-05-23 19:40                   ` Duke Normandin
2010-05-24  7:55               ` Martin
2010-05-24 12:05                 ` (see below)
2010-05-24 13:27                   ` Martin
2010-05-24 13:28                 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-05-24 13:40                   ` Martin
2010-05-24 15:19                     ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-05-20 21:29     ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-05-21  7:58       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-06-05  8:04   ` Nasser M. Abbasi
2010-06-05  9:24     ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-06-05 12:27       ` Simon Wright
2010-06-05 12:59       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-06-05 13:39         ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-06-05 16:02         ` Nasser M. Abbasi
2010-06-05 18:50           ` Robert A Duff
2010-06-05 20:14             ` (see below)
2010-06-06  7:25               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-06-06  7:38                 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-06-06  7:46                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-06-06  8:25                     ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-06-06  9:22                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-06-06 11:06                         ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-06-06 11:45                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-06-06 12:38                             ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-06-06 13:10                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-06-06 21:22                                 ` Georg Bauhaus
2010-06-07  7:26                                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-06-07  7:56                                   ` Martin Krischik
2010-06-07 11:13                                     ` Georg Bauhaus
2010-06-07 12:22                                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-06-07 14:12                                         ` Georg Bauhaus
2010-06-07 14:31                                           ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-06-07 14:51                                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-06-07 15:00                                             ` Georg Bauhaus
2010-06-07 15:09                                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-06-07 15:28                                                 ` Martin Krischik
2010-06-07 15:50                                                 ` Georg Bauhaus
2010-06-07 16:58                                                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-06-07 12:56                                       ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-06-07 13:27                                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-06-07 14:09                                           ` Georg Bauhaus
2010-06-07 14:48                                             ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-06-07 15:05                                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-06-07 15:34                                               ` Martin Krischik
2010-06-07 16:25                                                 ` Georg Bauhaus
2010-06-07 16:30                                                   ` Georg Bauhaus
2010-06-07 17:09                                                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-06-08  6:54                                                   ` Martin Krischik
2010-06-07 14:44                                           ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57) [this message]
2010-06-07 12:58                                 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-06-07 13:20                                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-06-09  6:31             ` Nasser M. Abbasi
2010-06-09 16:26               ` Robert A Duff
2010-06-05 19:34           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-06-05 22:56             ` Robert A Duff
2010-06-05 20:15           ` John B. Matthews
2010-06-06  4:08           ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-06-05 21:16         ` Maciej Sobczak
2010-06-06  7:39           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-05-20 19:24 ` Anonymous
2010-05-20 19:35   ` Duke Normandin
2010-05-20 19:59     ` Ludovic Brenta
2010-05-21 20:10       ` Warren
2010-05-21 23:05         ` Duke Normandin
2010-05-21 23:44           ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-05-21 23:55             ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2010-05-22  0:00             ` Duke Normandin
2010-05-25 16:55             ` Warren
2010-05-22 12:23           ` Peter C. Chapin
2010-05-22 13:17             ` Duke Normandin
2010-05-23  0:34           ` Anonymous
2010-05-23  2:23             ` Duke Normandin
2010-05-23  2:42           ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-05-23 13:22             ` Duke Normandin
2010-05-24 12:14           ` Bryan
2010-05-24 13:22             ` Duke Normandin
2010-05-24 19:56             ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2010-05-25 17:00             ` Warren
2010-05-25  2:11           ` Stephen Leake
2010-05-20 21:37     ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-05-21 11:00 ` jonathan
2010-05-21 14:21   ` Duke Normandin
2010-05-21 17:29     ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-05-21 19:52       ` Duke Normandin
2010-05-21 20:11     ` Peter C. Chapin
2010-05-21 20:21       ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2010-05-21 23:07       ` Duke Normandin
2010-05-21 23:13         ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-05-21 23:53           ` Duke Normandin
2010-05-21 23:24       ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-05-24 18:01     ` Luis Espinal
2010-05-24 19:34       ` Duke Normandin
2010-05-24 20:04         ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-05-24 20:25           ` John B. Matthews
2010-05-24 22:21           ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2010-05-24 22:38             ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-05-25 11:41         ` Anonymous
2010-05-25 12:08           ` Georg Bauhaus
2010-05-25 13:47             ` George Orwell
2010-05-25 14:24               ` Georg Bauhaus
2010-05-25 16:15                 ` J-P. Rosen
2010-05-25 17:34                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-05-25 17:42                     ` Ludovic Brenta
2010-05-25 18:16                       ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-05-25 21:27                         ` Ludovic Brenta
2010-05-25 18:13                     ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-05-26  7:42                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-05-26 21:22                         ` Simon Wright
2010-05-26 21:35                           ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-05-25 18:16                     ` J-P. Rosen
2010-05-25 18:08                   ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-05-26  7:24                   ` Stephen Leake
2010-05-26  9:58                     ` Georg Bauhaus
2010-05-26 10:11                       ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-05-26 10:21                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-05-25 16:24                 ` Nomen Nescio
2010-05-25 18:28                   ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-05-25 19:50                     ` John B. Matthews
2010-05-25 20:20                       ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-05-25 20:27                       ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-05-25 18:06                 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-05-27 13:20           ` Ada compilers written in ... (was: Re: Ada noob here! Is Ada widely used?) Georg Bauhaus
2010-05-28  2:31             ` Mike Sieweke
2010-05-28  5:01             ` AdaMagica
2010-05-26  7:21         ` Ada noob here! Is Ada widely used? Stephen Leake
2010-05-26  7:59           ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-05-26  8:06             ` AdaMagica
2010-05-26  8:33               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-05-26  8:55             ` Ludovic Brenta
2010-05-26  9:24               ` Georg Bauhaus
2010-05-26  9:42                 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-05-27  6:49               ` J-P. Rosen
2010-05-27  7:48                 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-05-27 16:50                   ` J-P. Rosen
2010-05-27 17:24                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2010-06-09 10:00 AdaMagica
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