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From: tmoran@acm.org
Subject: Re: Ada noob here! Is Ada widely used?
Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2010 17:59:36 +0000 (UTC)
Date: 2010-06-05T17:59:36+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <hue3a7$e1i$1@speranza.aioe.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 7sxhe3ad80de$.5yvimcxk9vjb.dlg@40tude.net

>is that it presumes that states are random, which are not, because [most
>of] programs are deterministic. Any randomness which might exist is derived
>from the inputs. I.e. it is the program usage, which makes the *same*
>program less or more reliable. According to this approach the most reliable
>car is one you do not drive.
  Mechanical devices also fail due to unfortunate, unanticipated,
combinations of random inputs.  Rockets don't fail in the middle of the
night sitting in the assembly building.  They fail when, for instance, the
air temperature is very low and the rocket is on full thrust and with
those inputs the O-ring can't sufficiently do its job.  You don't say
"O-rings are or are not reliable" - you say "under such and such
conditions O-rings are 99.9999% likely to prevent dangerous amounts of
leakage.  Under such and such other inputs, that drops to 99.9%,
or 90%, or 10%."

> ... E.g. Let I modify 0,01% of the source of 90%
> "reliable" program. I can tell nothing about whether the result is 90%
> reliable +/- factor * 0.01%. This model just does not work.
   The word "model" is key.  It is meaningless to talk about whether
something, software or hardware, *is* stochastic - but one can observe
whether a stochastic *model* of the system is helpful or not.
   As to program changes, one talks about how confident you are that the
program will not hit a bug today, as compared to yesterday before you made
the change.  Your confidence will depend not just on the fraction of
source code changed, but also on careful consideration of the nature and
expected effects of the change, and observations while testing the changed
version.



  parent reply	other threads:[~2010-06-05 17:59 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 230+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2010-05-20 12:53 Ada noob here! Is Ada widely used? Duke Normandin
2010-05-20 13:59 ` Alex Mentis
2010-05-20 15:05   ` Pascal Obry
2010-05-20 15:27     ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-05-20 15:30   ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-05-20 18:58     ` Duke Normandin
2010-05-20 19:36       ` Manuel Gomez
2010-05-20 19:53         ` Duke Normandin
2010-05-20 21:20       ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-05-20 23:17       ` Gautier write-only
2010-05-20 23:46         ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-05-21 14:07           ` Duke Normandin
2010-05-21  0:30         ` Marc A. Criley
2010-05-21  2:17           ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-05-21 20:34             ` Marc A. Criley
2010-05-21  5:18         ` Randy Brukardt
2010-05-22 14:54           ` Gautier write-only
2010-05-21 16:01         ` Duke Normandin
2010-05-22  9:57           ` Stephen Leake
2010-05-21  5:09     ` Randy Brukardt
2010-05-21 14:33       ` Duke Normandin
2010-05-20 19:06   ` Duke Normandin
2010-05-20 21:19     ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-05-21  1:08   ` tmoran
2010-05-20 15:33 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-05-20 17:21 ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2010-05-20 18:49 ` Gautier write-only
2010-05-20 19:51   ` Duke Normandin
2010-05-20 21:05     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-05-20 22:58       ` Duke Normandin
2010-05-23  2:41         ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-05-23 13:26           ` Duke Normandin
2010-05-23 16:50             ` Bruno Le Hyaric
2010-05-23 17:37               ` Duke Normandin
2010-05-23 20:32               ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2010-05-23 20:59                 ` Duke Normandin
2010-05-24  9:00                   ` Stephen Leake
2010-05-24  9:31                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-05-24 13:10                       ` Duke Normandin
2010-05-25  2:07                         ` Stephen Leake
2010-05-25  2:02                       ` Stephen Leake
2010-05-25  9:05                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-05-25 17:36                           ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-05-25 18:50                             ` Warren
2010-05-26  7:16                           ` Stephen Leake
2010-05-26  8:17                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-06-03  2:59                         ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-06-03  7:23                           ` Niklas Holsti
2010-06-03  7:47                             ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-06-04  9:09                               ` Stephen Leake
2010-06-04  9:08                           ` Stephen Leake
2010-06-04  9:27                             ` Brian Drummond
2010-06-04  9:40                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-06-04 10:55                               ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-06-04 12:23                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-06-04 12:59                                   ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-06-05  4:00                               ` Stephen Leake
2010-06-05  6:13                                 ` tmoran
2010-06-05  8:00                                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-06-05  9:05                                     ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-06-05  9:30                                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-06-05  9:45                                         ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-06-06  6:36                                         ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2010-06-05 17:59                                     ` tmoran [this message]
2010-06-05 19:59                                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-06-05 20:41                                         ` tmoran
2010-06-06  7:18                                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-06-06 19:27                                             ` tmoran
2010-06-07  7:48                                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-06-06  3:46                                         ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-06-06  7:23                                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-06-06 10:22                                         ` Simon Wright
2010-06-06 11:18                                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-06-06 13:58                                             ` Simon Wright
2010-06-06 17:22                                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-06-05 12:16                                 ` Simon Wright
2010-06-04 19:23                           ` Fritz Wuehler
2010-06-04 21:10                             ` Martin Krischik
2010-06-04 22:02                             ` Dirk Craeynest
2010-06-05  3:33                             ` Duke Normandin
2010-06-05 23:17                               ` Non scrivetemi
2010-06-06  4:45                                 ` Duke Normandin
2010-06-06 16:41                                   ` Fritz Wuehler
2010-06-07  2:15                                     ` Duke Normandin
2010-06-07  6:06                                       ` Non scrivetemi
2010-06-05  7:47                             ` Georg Bauhaus
2010-06-05 22:43                               ` starwars
2010-06-04 21:09                       ` Martin Krischik
2010-05-24 13:20                     ` Duke Normandin
2010-05-25  2:10                       ` Stephen Leake
2010-05-23 18:32             ` (see below)
2010-05-23 19:10               ` Duke Normandin
2010-05-23 19:22                 ` (see below)
2010-05-23 19:40                   ` Duke Normandin
2010-05-24  7:55               ` Martin
2010-05-24 12:05                 ` (see below)
2010-05-24 13:27                   ` Martin
2010-05-24 13:28                 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-05-24 13:40                   ` Martin
2010-05-24 15:19                     ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-05-20 21:29     ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-05-21  7:58       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-06-05  8:04   ` Nasser M. Abbasi
2010-06-05  9:24     ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-06-05 12:27       ` Simon Wright
2010-06-05 12:59       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-06-05 13:39         ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-06-05 16:02         ` Nasser M. Abbasi
2010-06-05 18:50           ` Robert A Duff
2010-06-05 20:14             ` (see below)
2010-06-06  7:25               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-06-06  7:38                 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-06-06  7:46                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-06-06  8:25                     ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-06-06  9:22                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-06-06 11:06                         ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-06-06 11:45                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-06-06 12:38                             ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-06-06 13:10                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-06-06 21:22                                 ` Georg Bauhaus
2010-06-07  7:26                                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-06-07  7:56                                   ` Martin Krischik
2010-06-07 11:13                                     ` Georg Bauhaus
2010-06-07 12:22                                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-06-07 14:12                                         ` Georg Bauhaus
2010-06-07 14:31                                           ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-06-07 14:51                                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-06-07 15:00                                             ` Georg Bauhaus
2010-06-07 15:09                                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-06-07 15:28                                                 ` Martin Krischik
2010-06-07 15:50                                                 ` Georg Bauhaus
2010-06-07 16:58                                                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-06-07 12:56                                       ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-06-07 13:27                                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-06-07 14:09                                           ` Georg Bauhaus
2010-06-07 14:48                                             ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-06-07 15:05                                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-06-07 15:34                                               ` Martin Krischik
2010-06-07 16:25                                                 ` Georg Bauhaus
2010-06-07 16:30                                                   ` Georg Bauhaus
2010-06-07 17:09                                                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-06-08  6:54                                                   ` Martin Krischik
2010-06-07 14:44                                           ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-06-07 12:58                                 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-06-07 13:20                                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-06-09  6:31             ` Nasser M. Abbasi
2010-06-09 16:26               ` Robert A Duff
2010-06-05 19:34           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-06-05 22:56             ` Robert A Duff
2010-06-05 20:15           ` John B. Matthews
2010-06-06  4:08           ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-06-05 21:16         ` Maciej Sobczak
2010-06-06  7:39           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-05-20 19:24 ` Anonymous
2010-05-20 19:35   ` Duke Normandin
2010-05-20 19:59     ` Ludovic Brenta
2010-05-21 20:10       ` Warren
2010-05-21 23:05         ` Duke Normandin
2010-05-21 23:44           ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-05-21 23:55             ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2010-05-22  0:00             ` Duke Normandin
2010-05-25 16:55             ` Warren
2010-05-22 12:23           ` Peter C. Chapin
2010-05-22 13:17             ` Duke Normandin
2010-05-23  0:34           ` Anonymous
2010-05-23  2:23             ` Duke Normandin
2010-05-23  2:42           ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-05-23 13:22             ` Duke Normandin
2010-05-24 12:14           ` Bryan
2010-05-24 13:22             ` Duke Normandin
2010-05-24 19:56             ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2010-05-25 17:00             ` Warren
2010-05-25  2:11           ` Stephen Leake
2010-05-20 21:37     ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-05-21 11:00 ` jonathan
2010-05-21 14:21   ` Duke Normandin
2010-05-21 17:29     ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-05-21 19:52       ` Duke Normandin
2010-05-21 20:11     ` Peter C. Chapin
2010-05-21 20:21       ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2010-05-21 23:07       ` Duke Normandin
2010-05-21 23:13         ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-05-21 23:53           ` Duke Normandin
2010-05-21 23:24       ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-05-24 18:01     ` Luis Espinal
2010-05-24 19:34       ` Duke Normandin
2010-05-24 20:04         ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-05-24 20:25           ` John B. Matthews
2010-05-24 22:21           ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2010-05-24 22:38             ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-05-25 11:41         ` Anonymous
2010-05-25 12:08           ` Georg Bauhaus
2010-05-25 13:47             ` George Orwell
2010-05-25 14:24               ` Georg Bauhaus
2010-05-25 16:15                 ` J-P. Rosen
2010-05-25 17:34                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-05-25 17:42                     ` Ludovic Brenta
2010-05-25 18:16                       ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-05-25 21:27                         ` Ludovic Brenta
2010-05-25 18:13                     ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-05-26  7:42                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-05-26 21:22                         ` Simon Wright
2010-05-26 21:35                           ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-05-25 18:16                     ` J-P. Rosen
2010-05-25 18:08                   ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-05-26  7:24                   ` Stephen Leake
2010-05-26  9:58                     ` Georg Bauhaus
2010-05-26 10:11                       ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-05-26 10:21                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-05-25 16:24                 ` Nomen Nescio
2010-05-25 18:28                   ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-05-25 19:50                     ` John B. Matthews
2010-05-25 20:20                       ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-05-25 20:27                       ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-05-25 18:06                 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-05-27 13:20           ` Ada compilers written in ... (was: Re: Ada noob here! Is Ada widely used?) Georg Bauhaus
2010-05-28  2:31             ` Mike Sieweke
2010-05-28  5:01             ` AdaMagica
2010-05-26  7:21         ` Ada noob here! Is Ada widely used? Stephen Leake
2010-05-26  7:59           ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-05-26  8:06             ` AdaMagica
2010-05-26  8:33               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-05-26  8:55             ` Ludovic Brenta
2010-05-26  9:24               ` Georg Bauhaus
2010-05-26  9:42                 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-05-27  6:49               ` J-P. Rosen
2010-05-27  7:48                 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2010-05-27 16:50                   ` J-P. Rosen
2010-05-27 17:24                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2010-06-09 10:00 AdaMagica
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