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From: Robert Dewar <robert_dewar@my-deja.com>
Subject: Re: Elimination of "use" clauses
Date: 1999/07/02
Date: 1999-07-02T00:00:00+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <7ljbsu$ni7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 377CE178.6C15F543@hso.link.com

In article <377CE178.6C15F543@hso.link.com>,
  "Samuel T. Harris" <sam_harris@hso.link.com> wrote:
> There are times when no tool can be of any help.
> Doing work for NASA, we have customers which insist on
> reviewing code in their private work area. With no
> connectivity to our environment, they do not have
> access to our tools. Some of they even require hardcopy
> and reject any electronic form.

Well there are people who refuse to drive automobiles, but
that does not mean that we necessarily take into account
those requirements in deciding how to layout our highways.
You may also have customers who require Hungarian notation,
but that does not mean it is a good thing.

Yes, of course a dotifier (or for that matter a Hungarianizer)
may be useful in bizarre environments

> So the problem is not entirely handled by good tools.
> Reasonable restrictions on the use clause are still
> appropriate to support such edge cases.

Well be careful. By supporting such edge cases, you may be
making the programs harder to read and work with by everyone
else.

As I pointed out in a previous message, it is actually
relatively unusual for people to fully qualify, that is
especially true in these days of child packages.

Do you really want to say:

   X := Ada.Numerics.Float_Random.Random (Gen);

rather than

   X := Random (Gen);

?
and that is by NO means the worst case. Well if you are really
usephobic, or worse, live in an environment which mandates that
use be disallowed (I have encountered such absurdities), then
you end up doing a package renaming:

   X := NFR.Random (Gen);

But this is *precisely* no help at all if you have decent
tools, and creates useless noise. It does not tell you
immediately where something is. The only purpose of the
prefix NFR is to help you find the declaration of Random
using decrepit tools. That to me is hard to justify.

Once again, I think the critical factor is to consider what
makes the code clearer. If you have people who insist on wasting
their time by reading the code on paper, by all means get a
dotifying tool and give them the entire long form above if
that's what they want!

Note that I am not arguing against qualification, just trying to
stress that the decision to qualify should be based on factors
other than the requirement of using decrepit tools. Of course
there are those who have no choice. Fine, but that does not
provide a source of inspiration on what ideal Ada style should
be in an ideal environment.

(actually for me, I agree with what someone wrote earlier, any
Ada environment not providing this capability is broken and
unusable as far as I am concerned). Even if you use FULL
qualification, it is nowhere NEAR as convenient as going
directly to the declaration with a decent tool. If you have
not tried working in such an environment, give it a try, you
may find it enlightening (and not have to reach so often for
the baseball bat :-)


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  reply	other threads:[~1999-07-02  0:00 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 64+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
1999-07-01  0:00 Elimination of "use" clauses Dr. Neil C. Audsley
1999-07-01  0:00 ` czgrr
1999-07-01  0:00   ` Ted Dennison
1999-07-02  0:00     ` czgrr
1999-07-02  0:00       ` Ted Dennison
1999-07-01  0:00 ` Samuel T. Harris
1999-07-01  0:00 ` Joe Wisniewski
1999-07-02  0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1999-07-02  0:00   ` Samuel T. Harris
1999-07-02  0:00     ` Robert Dewar [this message]
     [not found]       ` <7ltl2q$mog$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
1999-07-08  0:00         ` Michael F. Yoder
1999-07-09  0:00           ` Robert Dewar
1999-07-09  0:00             ` Michael F. Yoder
1999-07-14  0:00               ` Tucker Taft
1999-07-09  0:00             ` Dale Stanbrough
1999-07-12  0:00               ` Robert Dewar
1999-07-12  0:00                 ` Ted Dennison
1999-07-10  0:00             ` Simon Wright
1999-07-12  0:00               ` Robert Dewar
1999-07-09  0:00           ` Richard D Riehle
1999-07-09  0:00             ` Marin David Condic
1999-07-09  0:00             ` Michael F. Yoder
1999-07-08  0:00       ` R. Tim Coslet
1999-07-09  0:00         ` Robert Dewar
1999-07-09  0:00           ` tmoran
1999-07-02  0:00   ` Ted Dennison
1999-07-02  0:00     ` Ed Falis
1999-07-02  0:00     ` Robert Dewar
     [not found]       ` <7ltus1$ah1@dfw-ixnews19.ix.netcom.com>
1999-07-13  0:00         ` Robert A Duff
1999-07-18  0:00           ` Richard D Riehle
1999-07-18  0:00             ` Dale Stanbrough
1999-07-20  0:00               ` Richard D Riehle
1999-07-19  0:00                 ` Brian Rogoff
1999-07-20  0:00                   ` Robert Dewar
1999-07-20  0:00                     ` Brian Rogoff
1999-07-21  0:00                       ` Robert Dewar
1999-07-21  0:00                         ` Brian Rogoff
1999-07-22  0:00                           ` Robert Dewar
1999-07-22  0:00                             ` Brian Rogoff
1999-07-22  0:00                           ` Robert Dewar
1999-07-22  0:00                             ` Brian Rogoff
1999-07-21  0:00                       ` Ted Dennison
1999-07-21  0:00                         ` Robert Dewar
1999-07-21  0:00                         ` Robert A Duff
1999-07-21  0:00                     ` Robert A Duff
1999-07-21  0:00                       ` Michael F. Yoder
1999-07-21  0:00                         ` Robert A Duff
1999-07-23  0:00                 ` Tucker Taft
1999-08-03  0:00                   ` Richard D Riehle
1999-07-20  0:00               ` David Kristola
1999-07-18  0:00             ` jerry
1999-07-19  0:00               ` Vladimir Olensky
1999-07-20  0:00               ` Richard D Riehle
1999-07-20  0:00                 ` jerry
1999-07-20  0:00                 ` Opaque Types (was Elimination of "use" clauses) David C. Hoos, Sr.
1999-07-19  0:00             ` Elimination of "use" clauses Ted Dennison
1999-07-19  0:00               ` Tucker Taft
1999-07-19  0:00                 ` Ted Dennison
1999-07-02  0:00     ` Stephen Leake
1999-07-02  0:00   ` Ed Falis
1999-07-03  0:00     ` Joe Wisniewski
1999-07-03  0:00       ` Keith Thompson
1999-07-03  0:00       ` Ed Falis
1999-07-13  0:00     ` Peter Amey
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