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From: Robert Dewar <robert_dewar@my-deja.com>
Subject: Re: Elimination of "use" clauses
Date: 1999/07/02
Date: 1999-07-02T00:00:00+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <7ljb4e$na9$1@nnrp1.deja.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 7ligdq$c8q$1@nnrp1.deja.com

In article <7ligdq$c8q$1@nnrp1.deja.com>,
  Ted Dennison <dennison@telepath.com> wrote:
> While I appreciate the fact that *some* compiler systems have
> facilites to help decipher stuff like this under *certian*
> circumstances, I am not
> persuaded that obtuse source code is just a "tool problem".

Actually there are many of us who feel that using dotted
notation all over the place actually obscures the code,
especially once you know it fairly well. I personally find
the dots annoying -- why? well you have far more text which
is conveying no more semantic information. I find this only
one step removed from the use of Hungarian notations. Of
course I realize other people differ, but there are two kinds
of use phobes:

 a) people who really prefer the dots

 b) people who put up with the dots because it is the only
    reasonable way they have of finding things

Please understand that my message is addressed exclusively
to the second group :-)

> If I have to use specialized tools to figure out what
> someone's source code is doing, the tool that springs most
> readily to mind is a baseball bat...

In a decent Ada environment, this should not be considered
a specialized tool, but rather a necessity. Note that even
most use phobes can't stand to dot operator names, so at the
very least you need the tool that allows you to click on an
operator name and find out where the operator is defined.

Note that many people can't stand to put the full package names
on the dots anyway, so you get notations like

   CT.List

instead of Compressed_Tree.List

Now you have to first find CT to know where things are. How
will you find CT? Well you use some tool. Perhaps you use some
decrepit tool like the search of an editor. But it would be
better to use the click and find procedure even for CT if you
have decent tools. If you have these decent tools, then you
might as well click on List and get where you really want to
go.

I am sorry Ted has to deal with such a decrepit environment that
the challenge of finding out where a variable is defined makes
him reach for the baseball bat, but I am not at all sure that
we should condition our style on the limitations of such
environments.

The decision to use or not use USE clauses should be based on
what makes the code clearer, not on entirely unreasonable and
unnecessary limitations of tool sets.

Probably the majority of Ada programmers fall between the ALWAYS
and NEVER use groups, and instead take a reasonable approach of
using USE where appropriate, and not using it where it is not
helpful.

Robert Dewar


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  parent reply	other threads:[~1999-07-02  0:00 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 64+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
1999-07-01  0:00 Elimination of "use" clauses Dr. Neil C. Audsley
1999-07-01  0:00 ` Joe Wisniewski
1999-07-01  0:00 ` czgrr
1999-07-01  0:00   ` Ted Dennison
1999-07-02  0:00     ` czgrr
1999-07-02  0:00       ` Ted Dennison
1999-07-01  0:00 ` Samuel T. Harris
1999-07-02  0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1999-07-02  0:00   ` Ted Dennison
1999-07-02  0:00     ` Stephen Leake
1999-07-02  0:00     ` Robert Dewar [this message]
     [not found]       ` <7ltus1$ah1@dfw-ixnews19.ix.netcom.com>
1999-07-13  0:00         ` Robert A Duff
1999-07-18  0:00           ` Richard D Riehle
1999-07-18  0:00             ` jerry
1999-07-19  0:00               ` Vladimir Olensky
1999-07-20  0:00               ` Richard D Riehle
1999-07-20  0:00                 ` Opaque Types (was Elimination of "use" clauses) David C. Hoos, Sr.
1999-07-20  0:00                 ` Elimination of "use" clauses jerry
1999-07-18  0:00             ` Dale Stanbrough
1999-07-20  0:00               ` David Kristola
1999-07-20  0:00               ` Richard D Riehle
1999-07-19  0:00                 ` Brian Rogoff
1999-07-20  0:00                   ` Robert Dewar
1999-07-20  0:00                     ` Brian Rogoff
1999-07-21  0:00                       ` Ted Dennison
1999-07-21  0:00                         ` Robert A Duff
1999-07-21  0:00                         ` Robert Dewar
1999-07-21  0:00                       ` Robert Dewar
1999-07-21  0:00                         ` Brian Rogoff
1999-07-22  0:00                           ` Robert Dewar
1999-07-22  0:00                             ` Brian Rogoff
1999-07-22  0:00                           ` Robert Dewar
1999-07-22  0:00                             ` Brian Rogoff
1999-07-21  0:00                     ` Robert A Duff
1999-07-21  0:00                       ` Michael F. Yoder
1999-07-21  0:00                         ` Robert A Duff
1999-07-23  0:00                 ` Tucker Taft
1999-08-03  0:00                   ` Richard D Riehle
1999-07-19  0:00             ` Ted Dennison
1999-07-19  0:00               ` Tucker Taft
1999-07-19  0:00                 ` Ted Dennison
1999-07-02  0:00     ` Ed Falis
1999-07-02  0:00   ` Ed Falis
1999-07-03  0:00     ` Joe Wisniewski
1999-07-03  0:00       ` Keith Thompson
1999-07-03  0:00       ` Ed Falis
1999-07-13  0:00     ` Peter Amey
1999-07-02  0:00   ` Samuel T. Harris
1999-07-02  0:00     ` Robert Dewar
     [not found]       ` <7ltl2q$mog$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
1999-07-08  0:00         ` Michael F. Yoder
1999-07-09  0:00           ` Richard D Riehle
1999-07-09  0:00             ` Michael F. Yoder
1999-07-09  0:00             ` Marin David Condic
1999-07-09  0:00           ` Robert Dewar
1999-07-09  0:00             ` Dale Stanbrough
1999-07-12  0:00               ` Robert Dewar
1999-07-12  0:00                 ` Ted Dennison
1999-07-09  0:00             ` Michael F. Yoder
1999-07-14  0:00               ` Tucker Taft
1999-07-10  0:00             ` Simon Wright
1999-07-12  0:00               ` Robert Dewar
1999-07-08  0:00       ` R. Tim Coslet
1999-07-09  0:00         ` Robert Dewar
1999-07-09  0:00           ` tmoran
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