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From: Ted Dennison<dennison@telepath.com>
Subject: Re: List container strawman
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 19:28:00 GMT
Date: 2001-11-05T19:28:00+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <4LBF7.13535$xS6.17968@www.newsranger.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 3BE58FDD.E1FB1815@san.rr.com

In article <3BE58FDD.E1FB1815@san.rr.com>, Darren New says...
>
>If you really want it to be foolproof, then for each "Location" pointer,
>you keep a pointer to the list, a pointer to the element being indexed,
>and a list number counter. In each list head, you keep a list number
>counter, a counter of the number of Location pointers outstanding, and
>the head and tail of the list.

That's not good enough either, since the List could change to make the location
itself invalid. The List itself could even go out of scope while the location
doesn't. I've implemented a lot of these types of iterators in my time, so I
have thought through the issue quite a bit already.

The best I could come up with for a Right Thing would be to keep a list of
extant Location pointers in each List object. That way the list itself can go
and invalidate the Location whenever it needs to (probably by flipping some
"valid" boolean in the Location type). Locations would have to be limited for
this to work, so the functions that return locations would have to be changed to
procedures.

To my mind, that's a rediculous amount of work and overhead to support a mild
"safeing up" of one small facility (iterators). I'm of the inlincation that if
you aren't going to do the Right Thing here, then bag it. Half-measures are
liable to cause as much harm as good by giving folks a false sense of security.
You might as well just aviod the whole issue, save all the work and overhead,
and just put it on the user to use this one feature correctly. As long as the
issues are well documented (eg: Its a "Bounded Error" to use an iterator after
any modification of its list not involving that iterator), then I don't see a
big problem.

---
T.E.D.    homepage   - http://www.telepath.com/dennison/Ted/TED.html

No trees were killed in the sending of this message. 
However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.



  parent reply	other threads:[~2001-11-05 19:28 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 166+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2001-11-02  3:56 List container strawman Ted Dennison
2001-11-02  4:20 ` James Rogers
2001-11-02 14:23   ` Ted Dennison
2001-11-02 14:38     ` Preben Randhol
2001-11-02 15:15     ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-11-02  4:35 ` Eric Merritt
2001-11-02 15:46   ` Ted Dennison
2001-11-02  7:28 ` Ehud Lamm
2001-11-02 14:57   ` Marin David Condic
2001-11-02 15:57     ` Francisco Javier Loma Daza
2001-11-02 16:28       ` Marin David Condic
2001-11-02 17:08         ` Ted Dennison
2001-11-02 15:06   ` Ted Dennison
2001-11-02 15:32     ` Marin David Condic
2001-11-02 16:33       ` Ted Dennison
2001-11-02 16:43         ` Marin David Condic
2001-11-02 22:51           ` Jeffrey Carter
2001-11-03  0:24             ` Matthew Heaney
2001-11-03  2:21               ` Jeffrey Carter
2001-11-03 22:51                 ` Rosen Trick [List container strawman] Nick Roberts
2001-11-04 13:07                   ` Robert Dewar
2001-11-04 17:17                     ` Side-Effects in Functions [Rosen Trick] Nick Roberts
2001-11-05  2:46                       ` Robert Dewar
2001-11-05  7:26                         ` pete
2001-11-05 10:29                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2001-11-05 11:19                             ` pete
2001-11-05 14:59                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2001-11-05 15:21                                 ` Preben Randhol
2001-11-05 16:04                                   ` Ted Dennison
2001-11-05 16:33                                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2001-11-05 17:42                                     ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-11-05 18:11                                       ` Preben Randhol
2001-11-06  8:38                                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2001-11-06  9:31                                         ` tgingold
2001-11-06  0:10                             ` Nick Roberts
2001-11-06  9:30                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2001-11-06 16:18                                 ` Lazy Evaluation [Side-Effects in Functions] Nick Roberts
2001-11-07  3:42                                   ` Robert Dewar
2001-11-07  4:42                                     ` Darren New
2001-11-07 11:54                                       ` Robert Dewar
2001-11-07 13:32                                         ` Florian Weimer
2001-11-07 13:24                                           ` Jean-Marc Bourguet
2001-11-09 18:06                                         ` Ted Dennison
2001-11-09 18:27                                           ` M. A. Alves
2001-11-11 20:13                                           ` Georg Bauhaus
2001-12-06 17:47                                             ` Harri J Haataja
2001-11-07  9:28                                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2001-11-06 20:08                               ` Side-Effects in Functions [Rosen Trick] Florian Weimer
2001-11-06 22:48                                 ` Nick Roberts
2001-11-07 10:46                                   ` Florian Weimer
2001-11-05 13:56                           ` Robert Dewar
2001-11-05 16:08                             ` Ted Dennison
2001-11-05 17:44                               ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-11-05 15:56                         ` Ted Dennison
2001-11-05 18:46                         ` Nick Roberts
2001-11-08 11:51                           ` Georg Bauhaus
2001-11-16  0:31                 ` List container strawman Vincent Marciante
2001-11-05 15:10             ` Marin David Condic
2001-11-05 18:31               ` Ted Dennison
2001-11-05 19:09                 ` Marin David Condic
2001-11-05 21:23                   ` Ted Dennison
2001-11-07 19:27                   ` Stephen Leake
2001-11-02 18:11         ` Mark Johnson
2001-11-02 18:46           ` Marin David Condic
2001-11-02 19:21           ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-11-03 22:30         ` Nick Roberts
2001-11-02 16:26   ` Ted Dennison
2001-11-02 16:36     ` Marin David Condic
2001-11-02 19:31       ` Ted Dennison
2001-11-02 17:49     ` Jeffrey Carter
2001-11-08 10:34     ` Ehud Lamm
2001-11-08 18:53       ` Better Finalisation [List container strawman] Nick Roberts
2001-11-09 13:36         ` Robert Dewar
2001-11-09 15:04           ` Florian Weimer
2001-11-10  0:36           ` Nick Roberts
2001-11-09 15:16         ` Ted Dennison
2001-11-09 17:30         ` Better control of assignment Jeffrey Carter
2001-11-10  0:32           ` Nick Roberts
2001-11-10 22:27             ` Jeffrey Carter
2001-11-13  6:36               ` Craig Carey
2001-11-13  6:39               ` Craig Carey
2001-11-13  8:53               ` Craig Carey
2001-11-14  9:42                 ` Craig Carey
2001-11-09 14:49       ` List container strawman Ted Dennison
2001-11-09 16:12         ` Ehud Lamm
2001-11-09 17:12         ` Marin David Condic
2001-11-09 18:11           ` Ted Dennison
2001-11-09 18:42           ` Matthew Heaney
2001-11-10 17:54             ` Simon Wright
2001-11-02 14:49 ` Marin David Condic
2001-11-02 15:15   ` Ted Dennison
2001-11-02 15:37     ` Marin David Condic
2001-11-02 16:49       ` Ted Dennison
2001-11-02 17:09         ` Marin David Condic
2001-11-04  0:10           ` Nick Roberts
2001-11-03 23:41         ` Nick Roberts
2001-11-02 17:02 ` David Botton
2001-11-02 17:55   ` David Botton
2001-11-03 19:22 ` Nick Roberts
     [not found] ` <3BE29AF4.80804@telepath.com>
2001-11-02 13:14   ` Ted Dennison
2001-11-02 13:31     ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-11-02 15:09       ` Ted Dennison
2001-11-02 15:13         ` Preben Randhol
2001-11-02 20:48       ` David Starner
2001-11-02 22:49         ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-11-02 17:44     ` Jeffrey Carter
2001-11-02 20:07       ` Ted Dennison
2001-11-02 23:19         ` Jeffrey Carter
2001-11-03  6:56           ` Ted Dennison
2001-11-03 19:22             ` Jeffrey Carter
2001-11-04 18:58               ` Darren New
2001-11-04 19:40                 ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-11-04 20:49                   ` Darren New
2001-11-07 19:07                   ` ramatthews
2001-11-08  0:04                     ` Darren New
2001-11-08  4:50                     ` Jeffrey Carter
2001-11-08 23:26                       ` ramatthews
2001-11-09 18:00                     ` Ted Dennison
2001-11-09 18:13                       ` Jean-Marc Bourguet
2001-11-09 18:55                         ` Ted Dennison
2001-11-10  1:48                           ` Nick Roberts
2001-11-10 17:04                             ` Ted Dennison
2001-11-10 20:59                               ` Nick Roberts
2001-11-10 23:17                                 ` Larry Hazel
2001-11-11  3:27                                   ` Nick Roberts
2001-11-12 18:39                                     ` Darren New
2001-11-13  0:35                                       ` Nick Roberts
2001-11-10 19:36                             ` Ehud Lamm
2001-11-10 20:15                               ` Nick Roberts
2001-11-09 19:27                       ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-11-09 20:03                       ` Stephen Leake
2001-11-09 21:05                         ` Ted Dennison
2001-11-09 22:42                         ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-11-10  4:52                           ` Nick Roberts
2001-11-10 20:24                       ` ramatthews
2001-11-05 19:28                 ` Ted Dennison [this message]
2001-11-05 19:42                   ` Jean-Marc Bourguet
2001-11-05 20:40                     ` Ted Dennison
2001-11-05 20:24                   ` Darren New
2001-11-05 20:45                     ` Ted Dennison
2001-11-05 17:21         ` List container strawman; Construct alternatives Stephen Leake
2001-11-03  7:42       ` List container strawman Simon Wright
2001-11-05 14:00   ` Stephen Leake
2001-11-08 11:17     ` Simon Wright
2001-11-13 16:29       ` Stephen Leake
2001-11-13 22:43         ` Jeffrey Carter
2001-11-13 22:48         ` Jeffrey Carter
2001-11-14  3:46           ` Nick Roberts
2001-11-15 10:23             ` Ehud Lamm
2001-11-14 14:50           ` Marin David Condic
2001-11-14 16:53             ` Jeffrey Carter
2001-11-14 17:59               ` Marin David Condic
2001-11-15  3:33                 ` Nick Roberts
2001-11-15 15:10                   ` Marin David Condic
2001-11-16  1:29                     ` Nick Roberts
2001-11-16 16:03                       ` Marin David Condic
2001-11-16 20:19                         ` Nick Roberts
2001-11-15 18:08                   ` Matthew Heaney
2001-11-08 14:57 ` M. A. Alves
2001-11-09  2:00   ` Jeffrey Carter
2001-11-09 18:31   ` Ted Dennison
2001-11-10 19:56     ` Ehud Lamm
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2001-11-02 19:54 Mike Brenner
2001-11-02 21:04 ` Ted Dennison
2001-11-03  8:09   ` Simon Wright
2001-11-03 12:46     ` Simon Wright
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