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From: dmitry@elros.cbb-automation.de (Dmitry A. Kazakov)
Subject: Re: Side-Effects in Functions [Rosen Trick]
Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 08:38:44 GMT
Date: 2001-11-06T08:38:44+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <3be79e7c.551796@News.CIS.DFN.DE> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 3BE6CF73.2020705@home.com

On Mon, 05 Nov 2001 17:42:14 GMT, "Warren W. Gay VE3WWG"
<ve3wwg@home.com> wrote:

>I think one of the issues at stake here is that Ada was meant to be
>
>easy to read. If you allow procedures to return values, then it is
>no longer a valid assumption that what looks like a function call,
>does not produce side effects (ie. you cannot assume that the arguments
>are not modified, without looking at the declaration).

Why something that looks like a call returning a result should have no
side effects? There are two completely different and independent
properties of a subroutine:

a) It does not modify arguments
b) It returns a result

What we have in Ada is:

subroutine is a function => a & b
subroutine is a procedure => not b

Now the question, why on Earth b=>a?

>To pull it off, you'd have to make some sort of syntactical difference
>
>in procedure-function calls, to maintain the status quo for functions.
>In case I am not explaining this clear enough, the following example
>might help:
>
>declare
>    Arg : Boolean;		-- Argument
>    R   : Boolean;		-- Result
>begin
>
>    R := My_Function(Arg);	-- Assumed that Arg is not modified
>    R := My_Proc_Function[Arg];	-- A procedure returning.. identified by []
>
>I am not suggesting the [] make a good syntax here, but you'd have
>to do something like this to maintain the distinction that Functions
>already enjoy within Ada.

Seems like Hungarian notation reincarnation. It is IMO a wrong idea.
All that a user should know about a subroutine is its contract. The
parameter mode is a part of the contract. When a user do not want (in
your example) Arg to be modified, he/she must simply say it by
declaring Arg constant, which would make the second call illegal.

Regards,
Dmitry Kazakov



  parent reply	other threads:[~2001-11-06  8:38 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 166+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2001-11-02  3:56 List container strawman Ted Dennison
2001-11-02  4:20 ` James Rogers
2001-11-02 14:23   ` Ted Dennison
2001-11-02 14:38     ` Preben Randhol
2001-11-02 15:15     ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-11-02  4:35 ` Eric Merritt
2001-11-02 15:46   ` Ted Dennison
2001-11-02  7:28 ` Ehud Lamm
2001-11-02 14:57   ` Marin David Condic
2001-11-02 15:57     ` Francisco Javier Loma Daza
2001-11-02 16:28       ` Marin David Condic
2001-11-02 17:08         ` Ted Dennison
2001-11-02 15:06   ` Ted Dennison
2001-11-02 15:32     ` Marin David Condic
2001-11-02 16:33       ` Ted Dennison
2001-11-02 16:43         ` Marin David Condic
2001-11-02 22:51           ` Jeffrey Carter
2001-11-03  0:24             ` Matthew Heaney
2001-11-03  2:21               ` Jeffrey Carter
2001-11-03 22:51                 ` Rosen Trick [List container strawman] Nick Roberts
2001-11-04 13:07                   ` Robert Dewar
2001-11-04 17:17                     ` Side-Effects in Functions [Rosen Trick] Nick Roberts
2001-11-05  2:46                       ` Robert Dewar
2001-11-05  7:26                         ` pete
2001-11-05 10:29                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2001-11-05 11:19                             ` pete
2001-11-05 14:59                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2001-11-05 15:21                                 ` Preben Randhol
2001-11-05 16:04                                   ` Ted Dennison
2001-11-05 16:33                                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2001-11-05 17:42                                     ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-11-05 18:11                                       ` Preben Randhol
2001-11-06  8:38                                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov [this message]
2001-11-06  9:31                                         ` tgingold
2001-11-06  0:10                             ` Nick Roberts
2001-11-06  9:30                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2001-11-06 16:18                                 ` Lazy Evaluation [Side-Effects in Functions] Nick Roberts
2001-11-07  3:42                                   ` Robert Dewar
2001-11-07  4:42                                     ` Darren New
2001-11-07 11:54                                       ` Robert Dewar
2001-11-07 13:32                                         ` Florian Weimer
2001-11-07 13:24                                           ` Jean-Marc Bourguet
2001-11-09 18:06                                         ` Ted Dennison
2001-11-09 18:27                                           ` M. A. Alves
2001-11-11 20:13                                           ` Georg Bauhaus
2001-12-06 17:47                                             ` Harri J Haataja
2001-11-07  9:28                                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2001-11-06 20:08                               ` Side-Effects in Functions [Rosen Trick] Florian Weimer
2001-11-06 22:48                                 ` Nick Roberts
2001-11-07 10:46                                   ` Florian Weimer
2001-11-05 13:56                           ` Robert Dewar
2001-11-05 16:08                             ` Ted Dennison
2001-11-05 17:44                               ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-11-05 15:56                         ` Ted Dennison
2001-11-05 18:46                         ` Nick Roberts
2001-11-08 11:51                           ` Georg Bauhaus
2001-11-16  0:31                 ` List container strawman Vincent Marciante
2001-11-05 15:10             ` Marin David Condic
2001-11-05 18:31               ` Ted Dennison
2001-11-05 19:09                 ` Marin David Condic
2001-11-05 21:23                   ` Ted Dennison
2001-11-07 19:27                   ` Stephen Leake
2001-11-02 18:11         ` Mark Johnson
2001-11-02 18:46           ` Marin David Condic
2001-11-02 19:21           ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-11-03 22:30         ` Nick Roberts
2001-11-02 16:26   ` Ted Dennison
2001-11-02 16:36     ` Marin David Condic
2001-11-02 19:31       ` Ted Dennison
2001-11-02 17:49     ` Jeffrey Carter
2001-11-08 10:34     ` Ehud Lamm
2001-11-08 18:53       ` Better Finalisation [List container strawman] Nick Roberts
2001-11-09 13:36         ` Robert Dewar
2001-11-09 15:04           ` Florian Weimer
2001-11-10  0:36           ` Nick Roberts
2001-11-09 15:16         ` Ted Dennison
2001-11-09 17:30         ` Better control of assignment Jeffrey Carter
2001-11-10  0:32           ` Nick Roberts
2001-11-10 22:27             ` Jeffrey Carter
2001-11-13  6:36               ` Craig Carey
2001-11-13  6:39               ` Craig Carey
2001-11-13  8:53               ` Craig Carey
2001-11-14  9:42                 ` Craig Carey
2001-11-09 14:49       ` List container strawman Ted Dennison
2001-11-09 16:12         ` Ehud Lamm
2001-11-09 17:12         ` Marin David Condic
2001-11-09 18:11           ` Ted Dennison
2001-11-09 18:42           ` Matthew Heaney
2001-11-10 17:54             ` Simon Wright
     [not found] ` <3BE29AF4.80804@telepath.com>
2001-11-02 13:14   ` Ted Dennison
2001-11-02 13:31     ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-11-02 15:09       ` Ted Dennison
2001-11-02 15:13         ` Preben Randhol
2001-11-02 20:48       ` David Starner
2001-11-02 22:49         ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-11-02 17:44     ` Jeffrey Carter
2001-11-02 20:07       ` Ted Dennison
2001-11-02 23:19         ` Jeffrey Carter
2001-11-03  6:56           ` Ted Dennison
2001-11-03 19:22             ` Jeffrey Carter
2001-11-04 18:58               ` Darren New
2001-11-04 19:40                 ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-11-04 20:49                   ` Darren New
2001-11-07 19:07                   ` ramatthews
2001-11-08  0:04                     ` Darren New
2001-11-08  4:50                     ` Jeffrey Carter
2001-11-08 23:26                       ` ramatthews
2001-11-09 18:00                     ` Ted Dennison
2001-11-09 18:13                       ` Jean-Marc Bourguet
2001-11-09 18:55                         ` Ted Dennison
2001-11-10  1:48                           ` Nick Roberts
2001-11-10 17:04                             ` Ted Dennison
2001-11-10 20:59                               ` Nick Roberts
2001-11-10 23:17                                 ` Larry Hazel
2001-11-11  3:27                                   ` Nick Roberts
2001-11-12 18:39                                     ` Darren New
2001-11-13  0:35                                       ` Nick Roberts
2001-11-10 19:36                             ` Ehud Lamm
2001-11-10 20:15                               ` Nick Roberts
2001-11-09 19:27                       ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-11-09 20:03                       ` Stephen Leake
2001-11-09 21:05                         ` Ted Dennison
2001-11-09 22:42                         ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-11-10  4:52                           ` Nick Roberts
2001-11-10 20:24                       ` ramatthews
2001-11-05 19:28                 ` Ted Dennison
2001-11-05 19:42                   ` Jean-Marc Bourguet
2001-11-05 20:40                     ` Ted Dennison
2001-11-05 20:24                   ` Darren New
2001-11-05 20:45                     ` Ted Dennison
2001-11-05 17:21         ` List container strawman; Construct alternatives Stephen Leake
2001-11-03  7:42       ` List container strawman Simon Wright
2001-11-05 14:00   ` Stephen Leake
2001-11-08 11:17     ` Simon Wright
2001-11-13 16:29       ` Stephen Leake
2001-11-13 22:43         ` Jeffrey Carter
2001-11-13 22:48         ` Jeffrey Carter
2001-11-14  3:46           ` Nick Roberts
2001-11-15 10:23             ` Ehud Lamm
2001-11-14 14:50           ` Marin David Condic
2001-11-14 16:53             ` Jeffrey Carter
2001-11-14 17:59               ` Marin David Condic
2001-11-15  3:33                 ` Nick Roberts
2001-11-15 15:10                   ` Marin David Condic
2001-11-16  1:29                     ` Nick Roberts
2001-11-16 16:03                       ` Marin David Condic
2001-11-16 20:19                         ` Nick Roberts
2001-11-15 18:08                   ` Matthew Heaney
2001-11-02 14:49 ` Marin David Condic
2001-11-02 15:15   ` Ted Dennison
2001-11-02 15:37     ` Marin David Condic
2001-11-02 16:49       ` Ted Dennison
2001-11-02 17:09         ` Marin David Condic
2001-11-04  0:10           ` Nick Roberts
2001-11-03 23:41         ` Nick Roberts
2001-11-02 17:02 ` David Botton
2001-11-02 17:55   ` David Botton
2001-11-03 19:22 ` Nick Roberts
2001-11-08 14:57 ` M. A. Alves
2001-11-09  2:00   ` Jeffrey Carter
2001-11-09 18:31   ` Ted Dennison
2001-11-10 19:56     ` Ehud Lamm
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2001-11-05 21:10 Side-Effects in Functions [Rosen Trick] Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2001-11-05 21:58 ` Brian Rogoff
2001-11-22  6:22   ` David Thompson
2001-11-23  7:18     ` Brian Rogoff
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