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From: "Randy Brukardt" <randy@rrsoftware.com>
Subject: Re: Ada Popularity: Comparison of Ada/Charles with C++ STL (and Perl)
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:54:36 -0500
Date: 2004-09-24T15:54:36-05:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <sOudnSKh7rXbFMncRVn-jg@megapath.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: e749549b.0409241112.44f4bc85@posting.google.com

"Kevin Cline" <kevin.cline@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:e749549b.0409241112.44f4bc85@posting.google.com...
...
> Ok, although it's not readily apparent to me why implicit
> instantiations are inherently unsafe.  Nor do I believe reference
> expressions like
>    concordance[word]
> are inherently unsafe.  Storing the reference in a variable that may
> outlive the referent is unsafe, but I don't see why this is different
> from Ada access types.

It isn't different than Ada access types, that's the point. Access types are
inherently unsafe and should be avoided when possible. (But not to go
overboard, of course.)

That's an important design issue when designing reusable libraries. My
personal rule is that such libraries should not contain access types of any
kind in their specification unless they are doing something that requires
dynamic management of objects. (That's rather rare.) In Ada, there is no
need to use access types to get OOP or to get objects sized at runtime --
those uses are common in other languages.

Ada goes to fairly great lengths to try to avoid dangling pointers (the
dreaded accessibility rules), so access types in Ada are a bit safer than
those in some other languages. But that doesn't make them safe by any means.

In this particular case, the access would have roughly the same erroneous
use rules as a cursor does, which wouldn't be that awful. But it wouldn't be
a very good example of Ada design, because the library would return an
access to a data structure that is managed by other code -- which cannot
know whether any accesses remain -- so it would be impossible to be safe.
(I'm intending an implementation of the containers library that will try to
detect dangling cursors, so there will be little chance of building buggy
code with it.)

                                 Randy.






  reply	other threads:[~2004-09-24 20:54 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 229+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2004-09-22  0:21 Ada Popularity: Comparison of Ada/Charles with C++ STL (and Perl) Kevin Cline
2004-09-22  2:16 ` Pylinius
2004-09-22  8:50 ` Björn Persson
2004-09-22 13:38   ` Benjamin Ketcham
2004-09-22 14:07     ` Hyman Rosen
2004-09-22 15:16     ` Cesar Rabak
2004-09-23  8:22     ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-23 10:52     ` Anders Wirzenius
2004-09-23 10:54       ` stephane richard
2004-09-23 11:17       ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2004-09-23 11:47       ` Marius Amado Alves
2004-09-23 13:34         ` Anders Wirzenius
2004-09-23 16:53           ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-09-23 18:30           ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-23 19:00             ` Marius Amado Alves
2004-09-24  6:04               ` [OT]Screen ergonomics, was " Anders Wirzenius
2004-09-26  7:22               ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-23 17:19         ` Cesar Rabak
2004-09-23  8:51   ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-23 11:01     ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-09-23 15:59       ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-23 16:38       ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-24  2:47         ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-24 13:43           ` Hyman Rosen
2004-09-24 17:47             ` Mark Lorenzen
2004-09-24 18:16               ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-29 19:29                 ` Mark Lorenzen
2004-09-29 22:44                   ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-25 14:09             ` Martin Krischik
2004-09-26  7:08           ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-26 15:13             ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-23 19:10     ` jayessay
2004-09-23 21:13       ` Adam Ruth
2004-09-27  2:12         ` Keith H Duggar
2004-09-27 14:21           ` Adam Ruth
2004-09-27 14:51             ` Chris Humphries
2004-09-27 17:10               ` Adam Ruth
2004-09-27 20:16               ` Keith H Duggar
2004-09-27 21:15                 ` Chris Humphries
2004-09-28  4:46                   ` Keith H Duggar
2004-09-27 20:34             ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-27 21:15               ` Adam Ruth
2004-09-23 23:05     ` Brian May
2004-09-24  3:06       ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-24  3:52       ` Randy Brukardt
2004-09-24  5:15         ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-24 19:12         ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-24 20:54           ` Randy Brukardt [this message]
2004-09-24 21:23             ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-27 13:22           ` Chris Humphries
2004-09-27 13:45             ` Chris Humphries
2004-09-27 21:31             ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-27 23:51               ` Brian May
2004-09-28 12:21               ` Chris Humphries
2004-09-26 17:10         ` jayessay
2004-09-26 20:00           ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-09-27 14:45             ` jayessay
2004-09-24  0:19     ` Stephen Leake
2004-09-24 14:54       ` Cesar Rabak
2004-09-22 15:27 ` James Alan Farrell
2004-09-22 21:24   ` Simon Wright
2004-09-23  0:03     ` Brian May
2004-09-23  9:17       ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-23  0:44     ` Jeffrey Carter
2004-09-23 11:08       ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-09-23  8:15     ` Martin Krischik
2004-09-23 16:20       ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-23 19:23         ` Simon Wright
2004-09-24  7:19         ` Martin Krischik
2004-09-24 16:31           ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-24 19:24           ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-25 14:04             ` Martin Krischik
2004-09-26 10:36               ` Robert Kawulak
2004-09-26 15:35                 ` Martin Krischik
2004-09-28 17:46                   ` Robert Kawulak
2004-09-29  7:49                     ` Martin Krischik
2004-09-29 12:01                       ` Xenos
2004-09-29 18:16                       ` Robert Kawulak
2004-09-30 15:55                         ` Martin Krischik
2004-09-27 22:22               ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-28  7:51                 ` Martin Krischik
2004-09-29  3:04                   ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-29  6:03                     ` Dale Stanbrough
2004-09-29 13:31                     ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-09-29 13:46                     ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-30  3:42                       ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-30  7:54                         ` Dale Stanbrough
2004-09-30 16:50                         ` Matthew Heaney
2004-10-01  0:04                           ` Kevin Cline
2004-10-01 12:25                             ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-10-02  7:35                               ` K
2004-10-02 10:00                                 ` Brian May
2004-10-02 20:39                                   ` Kevin Cline
2004-10-03  2:17                                     ` Brian May
2004-10-02 13:40                                 ` Matthew Heaney
2004-10-02 23:33                                 ` Randy Brukardt
2004-10-03 12:47                                   ` Stephen Leake
2004-09-30 19:01                         ` Björn Persson
2004-09-30 23:54                           ` Kevin Cline
2004-10-01 16:11                             ` Björn Persson
2004-10-02  6:48                               ` K
2004-10-02 10:41                                 ` Björn Persson
2004-10-02 13:32                                 ` Matthew Heaney
2004-10-04  9:02                                 ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2004-09-23  9:00   ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-23 11:27     ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2004-09-23 19:11       ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-23 21:01         ` Alexander E. Kopilovich
2004-09-26  6:53           ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-26 15:29             ` Alexander E. Kopilovich
2004-09-23 21:54         ` Eric Jacoboni
2004-09-24  9:44         ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2004-09-24  9:50         ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-09-24 13:47           ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-24 14:14             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-09-25 14:17               ` Martin Krischik
2004-09-27  8:12                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-09-27 12:59                   ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-09-27 13:53                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-09-26  7:17               ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-27  8:19                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-09-27 13:03                   ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-09-27 14:00                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-09-24 16:28           ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-24 17:45             ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-09-24 20:14             ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-24 20:10               ` Frank J. Lhota
2004-09-27  8:29                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-09-26  7:13               ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-26 15:15                 ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-27 14:31                   ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-27 15:05                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-09-28  4:22                       ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-28  8:20                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-09-28 23:26                           ` Robert Kawulak
2004-09-29 12:19                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-09-30 18:52                               ` Robert Kawulak
2004-10-01  7:55                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-10-03 19:35                                   ` Robert Kawulak
2004-10-04 10:24                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-10-06 17:28                                       ` Robert Kawulak
2004-10-07  8:24                                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-10-10 21:09                                           ` Robert Kawulak
2004-10-11  8:08                                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-10-15  9:34                                               ` Robert Kawulak
2004-10-15 16:58                                                 ` Martin Krischik
2004-09-29 15:44                             ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-30 18:27                               ` Robert Kawulak
2004-09-28 17:21                       ` Robert Kawulak
2004-09-29  1:38                         ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-09-29 18:08                           ` Robert Kawulak
2004-09-30 18:30                             ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-09-29  8:08                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-09-29 18:11                           ` Robert Kawulak
2004-09-30  8:57                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
     [not found]                               ` <cji06f$17a$2@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
2004-10-01  8:58                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-10-03 19:53                                   ` Robert Kawulak
2004-10-04 10:15                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-10-04 12:16                                       ` Matthew Heaney
2004-10-04 13:21                                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-10-06 17:20                                       ` Robert Kawulak
2004-10-07 10:08                                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-10-10 22:21                                           ` Robert Kawulak
2004-10-11  8:46                                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-10-15  9:25                                               ` Robert Kawulak
2004-10-15 11:56                                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-10-20 20:06                                                   ` Robert Kawulak
2004-10-21  2:51                                                     ` Kevin Cline
2004-10-21  8:39                                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-10-27 21:41                                                       ` Robert Kawulak
2004-10-01 13:02                                 ` Robert Kawulak
2004-10-28 10:26                                 ` Larry Kilgallen
2004-09-27 16:21                     ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-28  2:47                       ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-28  4:03                         ` Brian May
2004-09-28  4:46                         ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-29  3:14                           ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-29  3:50                             ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-29  3:52                               ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-29 13:44                             ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-26  6:32           ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-26 15:05             ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-27 14:35               ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-23 19:30       ` jayessay
2004-09-23 19:42     ` Alexander E. Kopilovich
2004-09-22 21:05 ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-09-23  9:20   ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-23 16:58     ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-09-23  6:24 ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-23 11:23   ` Jeff C r e e.m
2004-09-23 11:35     ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-09-23 17:05       ` Pascal Obry
2004-09-23 17:07       ` Pascal Obry
2004-09-23 18:30     ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-23 19:31       ` Simon Wright
2004-09-24  0:09         ` Stephen Leake
2004-09-25 10:41           ` Simon Wright
2004-09-23 18:24   ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-23 17:12 ` Dan Andreatta
2004-09-23 18:10   ` Pascal Obry
2004-09-23 19:21     ` Eric Jacoboni
2004-09-23 19:31       ` Ed Falis
2004-09-23 19:37         ` Eric Jacoboni
2004-09-24 20:09       ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-25  0:18         ` Eric Jacoboni
2004-09-26  6:37           ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-26 14:57             ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-23 19:24     ` Eric Jacoboni
2004-09-23 21:30       ` Eric Jacoboni
2004-09-26 11:44         ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2004-09-26 17:02         ` jayessay
2004-09-24  8:26       ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2004-09-23 22:08     ` Anders Gidenstam
2004-09-24  8:10     ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2004-09-24 17:43       ` Dan Andreatta
2004-09-24 17:40     ` Dan Andreatta
2004-09-24 18:50       ` Pascal Obry
2004-09-23 22:34 ` Randy Brukardt
2004-09-23 23:11   ` Dale Stanbrough
2004-09-24  1:57     ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-24  6:32       ` Dale Stanbrough
2004-09-24 21:01         ` Randy Brukardt
2004-09-24  0:43   ` Jeffrey Carter
2004-09-24  1:51   ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-24 20:21     ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-26 11:09 ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2004-09-27 13:49   ` Björn Persson
2004-10-12  5:21 ` Ada Popularity: Comparison of languages Brian May
2004-10-12 11:43   ` Peter Hermann
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