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From: "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de>
Subject: Re: Ada Popularity: Comparison of Ada/Charles with C++ STL (and Perl)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:39:24 +0200
Date: 2004-10-21T10:39:24+02:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <1ln11ox1uk4ga$.1me7oe7jcrv9y$.dlg@40tude.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: cl6gok$q0e$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl

On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 22:06:28 +0200, Robert Kawulak wrote:

>> What if the *implementation*
>> does not fulfill the contract, while the parameter does?
> 
>   Ah, I see (at last ;-) what's your point. But is it really necessary to
> check if the *implementation* is contract-conformant? If it's not
> contract-conformant, then you get a compile-time error anytime you try to
> use it, the only difference I see is that such an error is detected only
> during instantiation.

But software design, at least with Ada, is not about detecting errors. That
would be debugging. (:-)) The advantage of contracts is in knowledge. With
templates when you instantiate and get an error, you cannot judge who was
wrong, contract is the code of laws to judge. [Provided that you have a
gift of deciphering template error messages, which tend to be longer than
the source code!]

> I know it'd be nice if the implementation would be
> checked for contract-conformance during compilation (parsing, whatever ;-),
> but OTOH I don't see not doing this such an issue...

Kevin Cline in other post gave an excellent example of how awful it is. His
example shows that a template developer have to write extensive tests to
detect errors which, otherwise, would be routinely detected by any
compiler.

In his view it is an advantage that no error will be detected until write
is used. In my view it is a fallacy. If write is declared in Container,
then it is a contract, is it? Then if an instantiation with some T makes
its use impossible, then the contract is violated. On the other hand, if
that instantiation is right and there is no need in write for a Container,
then it is Container which violates the implied contract by placing there
write. This or that way, the result is same. A contract model works only if
it does not leak.

-- 
Regards,
Dmitry A. Kazakov
http://www.dmitry-kazakov.de



  parent reply	other threads:[~2004-10-21  8:39 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 229+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2004-09-22  0:21 Ada Popularity: Comparison of Ada/Charles with C++ STL (and Perl) Kevin Cline
2004-09-22  2:16 ` Pylinius
2004-09-22  8:50 ` Björn Persson
2004-09-22 13:38   ` Benjamin Ketcham
2004-09-22 14:07     ` Hyman Rosen
2004-09-22 15:16     ` Cesar Rabak
2004-09-23  8:22     ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-23 10:52     ` Anders Wirzenius
2004-09-23 10:54       ` stephane richard
2004-09-23 11:17       ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2004-09-23 11:47       ` Marius Amado Alves
2004-09-23 13:34         ` Anders Wirzenius
2004-09-23 16:53           ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-09-23 18:30           ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-23 19:00             ` Marius Amado Alves
2004-09-24  6:04               ` [OT]Screen ergonomics, was " Anders Wirzenius
2004-09-26  7:22               ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-23 17:19         ` Cesar Rabak
2004-09-23  8:51   ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-23 11:01     ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-09-23 15:59       ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-23 16:38       ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-24  2:47         ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-24 13:43           ` Hyman Rosen
2004-09-24 17:47             ` Mark Lorenzen
2004-09-24 18:16               ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-29 19:29                 ` Mark Lorenzen
2004-09-29 22:44                   ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-25 14:09             ` Martin Krischik
2004-09-26  7:08           ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-26 15:13             ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-23 19:10     ` jayessay
2004-09-23 21:13       ` Adam Ruth
2004-09-27  2:12         ` Keith H Duggar
2004-09-27 14:21           ` Adam Ruth
2004-09-27 14:51             ` Chris Humphries
2004-09-27 17:10               ` Adam Ruth
2004-09-27 20:16               ` Keith H Duggar
2004-09-27 21:15                 ` Chris Humphries
2004-09-28  4:46                   ` Keith H Duggar
2004-09-27 20:34             ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-27 21:15               ` Adam Ruth
2004-09-23 23:05     ` Brian May
2004-09-24  3:06       ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-24  3:52       ` Randy Brukardt
2004-09-24  5:15         ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-24 19:12         ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-24 20:54           ` Randy Brukardt
2004-09-24 21:23             ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-27 13:22           ` Chris Humphries
2004-09-27 13:45             ` Chris Humphries
2004-09-27 21:31             ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-27 23:51               ` Brian May
2004-09-28 12:21               ` Chris Humphries
2004-09-26 17:10         ` jayessay
2004-09-26 20:00           ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-09-27 14:45             ` jayessay
2004-09-24  0:19     ` Stephen Leake
2004-09-24 14:54       ` Cesar Rabak
2004-09-22 15:27 ` James Alan Farrell
2004-09-22 21:24   ` Simon Wright
2004-09-23  0:03     ` Brian May
2004-09-23  9:17       ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-23  0:44     ` Jeffrey Carter
2004-09-23 11:08       ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-09-23  8:15     ` Martin Krischik
2004-09-23 16:20       ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-23 19:23         ` Simon Wright
2004-09-24  7:19         ` Martin Krischik
2004-09-24 16:31           ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-24 19:24           ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-25 14:04             ` Martin Krischik
2004-09-26 10:36               ` Robert Kawulak
2004-09-26 15:35                 ` Martin Krischik
2004-09-28 17:46                   ` Robert Kawulak
2004-09-29  7:49                     ` Martin Krischik
2004-09-29 12:01                       ` Xenos
2004-09-29 18:16                       ` Robert Kawulak
2004-09-30 15:55                         ` Martin Krischik
2004-09-27 22:22               ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-28  7:51                 ` Martin Krischik
2004-09-29  3:04                   ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-29  6:03                     ` Dale Stanbrough
2004-09-29 13:31                     ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-09-29 13:46                     ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-30  3:42                       ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-30  7:54                         ` Dale Stanbrough
2004-09-30 16:50                         ` Matthew Heaney
2004-10-01  0:04                           ` Kevin Cline
2004-10-01 12:25                             ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-10-02  7:35                               ` K
2004-10-02 10:00                                 ` Brian May
2004-10-02 20:39                                   ` Kevin Cline
2004-10-03  2:17                                     ` Brian May
2004-10-02 13:40                                 ` Matthew Heaney
2004-10-02 23:33                                 ` Randy Brukardt
2004-10-03 12:47                                   ` Stephen Leake
2004-09-30 19:01                         ` Björn Persson
2004-09-30 23:54                           ` Kevin Cline
2004-10-01 16:11                             ` Björn Persson
2004-10-02  6:48                               ` K
2004-10-02 10:41                                 ` Björn Persson
2004-10-02 13:32                                 ` Matthew Heaney
2004-10-04  9:02                                 ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2004-09-23  9:00   ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-23 11:27     ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2004-09-23 19:11       ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-23 21:01         ` Alexander E. Kopilovich
2004-09-26  6:53           ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-26 15:29             ` Alexander E. Kopilovich
2004-09-23 21:54         ` Eric Jacoboni
2004-09-24  9:44         ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2004-09-24  9:50         ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-09-24 13:47           ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-24 14:14             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-09-25 14:17               ` Martin Krischik
2004-09-27  8:12                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-09-27 12:59                   ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-09-27 13:53                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-09-26  7:17               ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-27  8:19                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-09-27 13:03                   ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-09-27 14:00                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-09-24 16:28           ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-24 17:45             ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-09-24 20:14             ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-24 20:10               ` Frank J. Lhota
2004-09-27  8:29                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-09-26  7:13               ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-26 15:15                 ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-27 14:31                   ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-27 15:05                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-09-28  4:22                       ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-28  8:20                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-09-28 23:26                           ` Robert Kawulak
2004-09-29 12:19                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-09-30 18:52                               ` Robert Kawulak
2004-10-01  7:55                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-10-03 19:35                                   ` Robert Kawulak
2004-10-04 10:24                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-10-06 17:28                                       ` Robert Kawulak
2004-10-07  8:24                                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-10-10 21:09                                           ` Robert Kawulak
2004-10-11  8:08                                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-10-15  9:34                                               ` Robert Kawulak
2004-10-15 16:58                                                 ` Martin Krischik
2004-09-29 15:44                             ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-30 18:27                               ` Robert Kawulak
2004-09-28 17:21                       ` Robert Kawulak
2004-09-29  1:38                         ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-09-29 18:08                           ` Robert Kawulak
2004-09-30 18:30                             ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-09-29  8:08                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-09-29 18:11                           ` Robert Kawulak
2004-09-30  8:57                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
     [not found]                               ` <cji06f$17a$2@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
2004-10-01  8:58                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-10-03 19:53                                   ` Robert Kawulak
2004-10-04 10:15                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-10-04 12:16                                       ` Matthew Heaney
2004-10-04 13:21                                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-10-06 17:20                                       ` Robert Kawulak
2004-10-07 10:08                                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-10-10 22:21                                           ` Robert Kawulak
2004-10-11  8:46                                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-10-15  9:25                                               ` Robert Kawulak
2004-10-15 11:56                                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-10-20 20:06                                                   ` Robert Kawulak
2004-10-21  2:51                                                     ` Kevin Cline
2004-10-21  8:39                                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov [this message]
2004-10-27 21:41                                                       ` Robert Kawulak
2004-10-01 13:02                                 ` Robert Kawulak
2004-10-28 10:26                                 ` Larry Kilgallen
2004-09-27 16:21                     ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-28  2:47                       ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-28  4:03                         ` Brian May
2004-09-28  4:46                         ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-29  3:14                           ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-29  3:50                             ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-29  3:52                               ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-29 13:44                             ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-26  6:32           ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-26 15:05             ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-27 14:35               ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-23 19:30       ` jayessay
2004-09-23 19:42     ` Alexander E. Kopilovich
2004-09-22 21:05 ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-09-23  9:20   ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-23 16:58     ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-09-23  6:24 ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-23 11:23   ` Jeff C r e e.m
2004-09-23 11:35     ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-09-23 17:05       ` Pascal Obry
2004-09-23 17:07       ` Pascal Obry
2004-09-23 18:30     ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-23 19:31       ` Simon Wright
2004-09-24  0:09         ` Stephen Leake
2004-09-25 10:41           ` Simon Wright
2004-09-23 18:24   ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-23 17:12 ` Dan Andreatta
2004-09-23 18:10   ` Pascal Obry
2004-09-23 19:21     ` Eric Jacoboni
2004-09-23 19:31       ` Ed Falis
2004-09-23 19:37         ` Eric Jacoboni
2004-09-24 20:09       ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-25  0:18         ` Eric Jacoboni
2004-09-26  6:37           ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-26 14:57             ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-23 19:24     ` Eric Jacoboni
2004-09-23 21:30       ` Eric Jacoboni
2004-09-26 11:44         ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2004-09-26 17:02         ` jayessay
2004-09-24  8:26       ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2004-09-23 22:08     ` Anders Gidenstam
2004-09-24  8:10     ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2004-09-24 17:43       ` Dan Andreatta
2004-09-24 17:40     ` Dan Andreatta
2004-09-24 18:50       ` Pascal Obry
2004-09-23 22:34 ` Randy Brukardt
2004-09-23 23:11   ` Dale Stanbrough
2004-09-24  1:57     ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-24  6:32       ` Dale Stanbrough
2004-09-24 21:01         ` Randy Brukardt
2004-09-24  0:43   ` Jeffrey Carter
2004-09-24  1:51   ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-24 20:21     ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-26 11:09 ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2004-09-27 13:49   ` Björn Persson
2004-10-12  5:21 ` Ada Popularity: Comparison of languages Brian May
2004-10-12 11:43   ` Peter Hermann
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