AdaOS

AdaOS

[Peter Hermann]

FYI:
Just a few ideas for a modern OS
is the title of an interesting discussion in newsgroup
comp.software-eng

-- 
Peter Hermann Tel+49-711-685-3611 Fax3758 ica2ph@csv.ica.uni-stuttgart.de
Pfaffenwaldring 27 Raum 114, D-70569 Stuttgart Uni Computeranwendungen
http://www.csv.ica.uni-stuttgart.de/homes/ph/
Team Ada: "C'mon people let the world begin" (Paul McCartney)

AdaOS

[Franz Huber]

hi group,

is there anybody from the AdaOS project?
if not, where are they?

ciao franz

Re: AdaOS

[Alfred Hilscher]

Franz Huber wrote:
> 
> hi group,
> 
> is there anybody from the AdaOS project?
> if not, where are they?

Maybe at http://www.AdaOS.org/home/ in the AdaOS mailing list.

Re: AdaOS

[Nick Roberts]

I am still 'around', but I have been 'keeping my head down'.

--
Nick Roberts


"Franz Huber" <franz.huber@r.heitec.de> wrote in message
news:9r8pvf$vms$1@papyrus.erlm.siemens.de...
> hi group,
>
> is there anybody from the AdaOS project?
> if not, where are they?

Re: AdaOS

[Tony Gair]

hello......
    But I just seem to be there for the ride at the minute,
I hope to be able to make an announcement which should improve the way
things can be developed for the ADA os

p.s. I have hijacked the newsgroup fj.comp.lang.ada for the use of ada
opensource discussions since it did not seem to be used for anything.

Regards
Tony
"Franz Huber" <franz.huber@r.heitec.de> wrote in message
news:9r8pvf$vms$1@papyrus.erlm.siemens.de...
> hi group,
>
> is there anybody from the AdaOS project?
> if not, where are they?
>
> ciao franz
>
>
>

Re: AdaOS

[Preben Randhol]

On Mon, 29 Oct 2001 16:40:12 -0000, Tony Gair wrote:
> hello......
>     But I just seem to be there for the ride at the minute,
> I hope to be able to make an announcement which should improve the way
> things can be developed for the ADA os
> 
> p.s. I have hijacked the newsgroup fj.comp.lang.ada for the use of ada
> opensource discussions since it did not seem to be used for anything.

I would expect that fj. means it is a local newsgroup for Fiji

But again it is not ADA nor ada, but Ada.

Preben Randhol
-- 
Please, stop bombing civilians in Afghanistan. One cannot write off
killing innocent children and other civilians as "collateral damage".
A civilian is a civilian whether he or she is American or from another
country in the world.           http://web.amnesty.org/11september.htm

Re: AdaOS

[Franz Huber]

hi there,

i've asked this because a time ago there were discussions concerning AdaOS
here. for some reason i didn't
get any mails from the adaos mailing-list, so i was in doubt what has
happend to this. are there any discussions
on the adaos list? i've checked by forwarder several times but haven't found
any mistakes.

caio franz

"Preben Randhol" <randhol+abuse@pvv.org> wrote in message
news:slrn9tr62t.hf.randhol+abuse@kiuk0156.chembio.ntnu.no...
> On Mon, 29 Oct 2001 16:40:12 -0000, Tony Gair wrote:
> > hello......
> >     But I just seem to be there for the ride at the minute,
> > I hope to be able to make an announcement which should improve the way
> > things can be developed for the ADA os
> >
> > p.s. I have hijacked the newsgroup fj.comp.lang.ada for the use of ada
> > opensource discussions since it did not seem to be used for anything.
>
> I would expect that fj. means it is a local newsgroup for Fiji
>
> But again it is not ADA nor ada, but Ada.
>
> Preben Randhol
> --
> Please, stop bombing civilians in Afghanistan. One cannot write off
> killing innocent children and other civilians as "collateral damage".
> A civilian is a civilian whether he or she is American or from another
> country in the world.           http://web.amnesty.org/11september.htm

Re: AdaOS

[Tony Gair]

I don't think its being maintained properly Franz
I think the bolt was shot a little bit early to get the ball rolling


"Franz Huber" <franz.huber@r.heitec.de> wrote in message
news:9rk749$ndt$1@papyrus.erlm.siemens.de...
> hi there,
>
> i've asked this because a time ago there were discussions concerning AdaOS
> here. for some reason i didn't
> get any mails from the adaos mailing-list, so i was in doubt what has
> happend to this. are there any discussions
> on the adaos list? i've checked by forwarder several times but haven't
found
> any mistakes.
>
> caio franz
>
> "Preben Randhol" <randhol+abuse@pvv.org> wrote in message
> news:slrn9tr62t.hf.randhol+abuse@kiuk0156.chembio.ntnu.no...
> > On Mon, 29 Oct 2001 16:40:12 -0000, Tony Gair wrote:
> > > hello......
> > >     But I just seem to be there for the ride at the minute,
> > > I hope to be able to make an announcement which should improve the way
> > > things can be developed for the ADA os
> > >
> > > p.s. I have hijacked the newsgroup fj.comp.lang.ada for the use of ada
> > > opensource discussions since it did not seem to be used for anything.
> >
> > I would expect that fj. means it is a local newsgroup for Fiji
> >
> > But again it is not ADA nor ada, but Ada.
> >
> > Preben Randhol
> > --
> > Please, stop bombing civilians in Afghanistan. One cannot write off
> > killing innocent children and other civilians as "collateral damage".
> > A civilian is a civilian whether he or she is American or from another
> > country in the world.           http://web.amnesty.org/11september.htm
>
>

Re: AdaOS

[Nick Roberts]

"Tony Gair" <tonygair@donot.spam.btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:9rnid9$541$1@neptunium.btinternet.com...
>
> I don't think its being maintained properly Franz

David Botton is the man to contact regarding the AdaOS mailing list (see the
AdaPower web site). It is still going, but there are some long periods of
inactivity at the moment.

> I think the bolt was shot a little bit early to get the ball rolling

Or to use another analogy, I announced the beginning of a project to build a
nwe aeroplane, and people seemed to think I was announcing an imminent test
flight. They seem to have been a little disappointed to learn that there is
likely to be a few years of R&D inbetween!

--
Nick Roberts

Re: AdaOS

[David Starner]

On Sun, 4 Nov 2001 17:32:43 -0000, Nick Roberts <nickroberts@adaos.worldonline.co.uk> wrote:
> Or to use another analogy, I announced the beginning of a project to build a
> nwe aeroplane, and people seemed to think I was announcing an imminent test
> flight. They seem to have been a little disappointed to learn that there is
> likely to be a few years of R&D inbetween!

Announcements are usually about things that exist. Frankly, most openly
developed projects start with a working core; then people come in and
add and fix. Open development doesn't usually work well.

-- 
David Starner - dstarner98@aasaa.ofe.org
Pointless website: http://dvdeug.dhis.org
"I saw a daemon stare into my face, and an angel touch my breast; each 
one softly calls my name . . . the daemon scares me less."
- "Disciple", Stuart Davis

Re: AdaOS

[Franz Huber]

hi there,

you see, i'm a member and i've talked to another member about the structure
of a HAL. we agreed best would
be to implement such kind off stuff to get rid of hw-dependencies. so i
wrote to the forum, but no response ever
arrived.
i've never received a message from the mailling-list, too.

ciao franz

"Nick Roberts" <nickroberts@adaos.worldonline.co.uk> wrote in message
news:9s3u20$10s0sv$1@ID-25716.news.dfncis.de...
> "Tony Gair" <tonygair@donot.spam.btinternet.com> wrote in message
> news:9rnid9$541$1@neptunium.btinternet.com...
> >
> > I don't think its being maintained properly Franz
>
> David Botton is the man to contact regarding the AdaOS mailing list (see
the
> AdaPower web site). It is still going, but there are some long periods of
> inactivity at the moment.
>
> > I think the bolt was shot a little bit early to get the ball rolling
>
> Or to use another analogy, I announced the beginning of a project to build
a
> nwe aeroplane, and people seemed to think I was announcing an imminent
test
> flight. They seem to have been a little disappointed to learn that there
is
> likely to be a few years of R&D inbetween!
>
> --
> Nick Roberts
>
>
>

Re: AdaOS

[Nick Roberts]

"Franz Huber" <franz.huber@r.heitec.de> wrote in message
news:9s670f$u2e$1@papyrus.erlm.siemens.de...
> hi there,
>
> you see, i'm a member and i've talked to another member about the
structure
> of a HAL.

What is a HAL? Do you really mean an artifically intelligent OS? That's a
bit beyond our current objectives! Of course, I know there are several AIOS
projects at the moment; I've no idea how realistic or progressed any of them
are.

> we agreed best would
> be to implement such kind off stuff to get rid of hw-dependencies. so i
> wrote to the forum, but no response ever
> arrived.

Possibly we never got it ...

> i've never received a message from the mailling-list, too.

... I believe there were some problems recently with AdaPower mailing lists
(generally solved by the able David Botton). Please try subscribing again.

> ciao franz

--
Best of luck,
Nick

Re: AdaOS

[Nick Roberts]

"David Starner" <dvdeug@x8b4e53cd.dhcp.okstate.edu> wrote in message
news:9s4oae$8a21@news.cis.okstate.edu...
> ...
> Announcements are usually about things that exist. Frankly, most openly
> developed projects start with a working core; then people come in and
> add and fix. Open development doesn't usually work well.

Well, the AdaOS project started unusually, and it seems pretty likely it
will go on being unusual! Perhaps it can also be unusual in being successful
(eventually).

--
Nick Roberts

Re: AdaOS

[Marin David Condic]

HAL = Hardware Abstraction Layer - in all probability. Some version of how
you do device drivers, etc.

MDC
--
Marin David Condic
Senior Software Engineer
Pace Micro Technology Americas    www.pacemicro.com
Enabling the digital revolution
e-Mail:    marin.condic@pacemicro.com
Web:      http://www.mcondic.com/


"Nick Roberts" <nickroberts@adaos.worldonline.co.uk> wrote in message
news:9s74eb$12b2bq$1@ID-25716.news.dfncis.de...
>
> What is a HAL? Do you really mean an artifically intelligent OS? That's a
> bit beyond our current objectives! Of course, I know there are several
AIOS
> projects at the moment; I've no idea how realistic or progressed any of
them
> are.
>

Re: AdaOS

[Nick Roberts]

Ah, yes, of course! We don't have device drivers any more, we have "Hardware
Abstraction Layers".

;-)

--
Nick Roberts

Re: AdaOS

[Darren New]

Nick Roberts wrote:
> Ah, yes, of course! We don't have device drivers any more, we have "Hardware
> Abstraction Layers".

I think the HAL is how the device drivers get to the hardware. It
abstracts (for example) the stuff you need to abstract before you're
done booting, it abstracts the mechanism for figuring out how to do task
switching, it abstracts the stuff for dealing with the motherboard so
you can tell what device drivers you need to load, and so on. It's a
layer below the device drivers.

-- 
Darren New 
San Diego, CA, USA (PST). Cryptokeys on demand.
     Sore feet from standing in line at airport
                 security checkpoints: Jet Leg.

Re: AdaOS

[Nick Roberts]

Your enlightenment is appreciated, but I'm sorry, I'm afraid it sounds a bit
like someone trying to sell me a pair of boots that will do all the walking
for me. I suspect HALs are an RAI (Redundant Academic Invention).

:-)

--
Nick Roberts


"Darren New" <dnew@san.rr.com> wrote in message
news:3BE81B26.285928FC@san.rr.com...
> Nick Roberts wrote:
> > Ah, yes, of course! We don't have device drivers any more, we have
"Hardware
> > Abstraction Layers".
>
> I think the HAL is how the device drivers get to the hardware. It
> abstracts (for example) the stuff you need to abstract before you're
> done booting, it abstracts the mechanism for figuring out how to do task
> switching, it abstracts the stuff for dealing with the motherboard so
> you can tell what device drivers you need to load, and so on. It's a
> layer below the device drivers.

Re: AdaOS

[Larry Kilgallen]

In article <9s994b$11sv9j$2@ID-25716.news.dfncis.de>, "Nick Roberts" <nickroberts@adaos.worldonline.co.uk> writes:
> Your enlightenment is appreciated, but I'm sorry, I'm afraid it sounds a bit
> like someone trying to sell me a pair of boots that will do all the walking
> for me. I suspect HALs are an RAI (Redundant Academic Invention).

Even worse than that.  It's a Microsoft Thing :-)

Re: AdaOS

[Nick Roberts]

ROTFL

--
NJR

Re: HAL (was AdaOS)

[Hans-Olof Danielsson]

"Nick Roberts" <nickroberts@adaos.worldonline.co.uk> skriver:

> Your enlightenment is appreciated, but I'm sorry, I'm afraid it sounds a
bit
> like someone trying to sell me a pair of boots that will do all the
walking
> for me. ........

In her book "Inside Windows NT" Helen Custer describes *NT's pair of
boots*  %>) like this:

"Hadware abstraction layer (HAL). Places a layer of code between the NT
executive and the hardware platform on which Windows NT is running. It
hides hardware-dependent details such as I/O interfaces, interrupt
controllers
and communication mechanisms. Rather than access hardware directly, NT
executive components maintain maximum portability by calling the HAL
routines when they need plattform-dependent information.
.....
Platform-dependent code - that is, code that relies on a particular
manufacture's implementation of a MIPS R4000 computer, for example
- is located in the HAL and is proveded by individual computer manufaturers.
Device drivers contain device-specific code, of course, but they aviod
processor-dependent and platform-dependent code by calling NT kernel
routines and HAL routines."

One thing one can wonder over is how heavy NT's pair of boots are.

Hans-Olof Danielsson

Re: AdaOS

[Philip Cummins]

[[ This message was both posted and mailed: see
   the "To," "Cc," and "Newsgroups" headers for details. ]]

Hello,

> Ah, yes, of course! We don't have device drivers any more, we have "Hardware
> Abstraction Layers".

You'd find it beneficial to have Hardware Abstraction Layers followed
by dynamically loadable device drivers. It is not a redundant academic
invention that is there to make life hard, but rather easier. A simple
search via Google will provide the sufficient documentation to back
this up.

For instance of a HAL operating is :

USB Hardware <-> USB HAL <-> USB Device Driver (ie, mouse, keyboard)

Essentially the USB HAL abstracts out a common front end API for the
USB device drivers to talk to the USB hardware which frequently changes
depending on which motherboard and chipset you're using. This removes
the need for each individual device driver to know what hardware it is
running off and hence redundant code.

PC

Re: HAL (was AdaOS)

[tmoran]

Refresh my memory: what did CPM call the hardware abstraction layer?

Re: HAL (was AdaOS)

[Matthew Woodcraft]

tmoran@acm.org writes:

> Refresh my memory: what did CPM call the hardware abstraction layer?

Basic
Input /
Output
System

I bet we're all glad that's dead and buried long ago.

-M-

Re: AdaOS

[Nick Roberts]

Yes, but Phil, it's not the actual bits of software that are redundant --
I've no doubt they indeed do useful things -- it's the term 'HAL' that's
redundant. The hardware abstraction layer IS the device drivers, and always
has been. Someone's just invented a fancy name, that's all!

I'm not actually against the invention of nomenclature. I do it myself all
the time. It's calling a spade a Cultivational Utility Device that I have a
problem with.

--
Nick Roberts


"Philip Cummins" <philip@no-spam.cs.uwa.edu.au> wrote in message
news:071120011028298704%philip@no-spam.cs.uwa.edu.au...
> ...
> You'd find it beneficial to have Hardware Abstraction Layers followed
> by dynamically loadable device drivers. It is not a redundant academic
> invention that is there to make life hard, but rather easier. A simple
> search via Google will provide the sufficient documentation to back
> this up.

Re: AdaOS

[Georg Bauhaus]

Philip Cummins <philip@no-spam.cs.uwa.edu.au> wrote:

: Essentially the USB HAL abstracts out a common front end API for the
: USB device drivers to talk to the USB hardware which frequently changes
: depending on which motherboard and chipset you're using. This removes
: the need for each individual device driver to know what hardware it is
: running off and hence redundant code.

Nick, have you really read these sentences? It says, or
I interpret it to mean, that in "old" nomenclature, the
"device driver" is not one big glob of software, but something
layered, following some engineering practice. With obvious
"software organization" advantages, even at run time. It makes
a difference if you have replaceable parts with separate access
control properties or just one big driver which does at best
have structure at the source level.

Georg
(Another very successful HAL is the JVM :-)

Re: AdaOS

[Marin David Condic]

Please get the terminology correct: Its called an "Individual Combat
Personnel Entrenchment Evacuator."

There's a Mil-Spec on it and everything.

MDC
--
Marin David Condic
Senior Software Engineer
Pace Micro Technology Americas    www.pacemicro.com
Enabling the digital revolution
e-Mail:    marin.condic@pacemicro.com
Web:      http://www.mcondic.com/


"Nick Roberts" <nickroberts@adaos.worldonline.co.uk> wrote in message
news:9scke6$12jb14$1@ID-25716.news.dfncis.de...
> the time. It's calling a spade a Cultivational Utility Device that I have
a

Re: AdaOS

[Nick Roberts]

:-)

--
NJR

> Please get the terminology correct: Its called an "Individual Combat
> Personnel Entrenchment Evacuator."

Re: AdaOS

[Ted Dennison]

In article <9s9413$11mrei$1@ID-25716.news.dfncis.de>, Nick Roberts says...
>
>Ah, yes, of course! We don't have device drivers any more, we have "Hardware
>Abstraction Layers".
>
>;-)

Yeah, its a Microsoftism, I believe. They also went and defined a "Harware
Emulation Layer". For some reason, no one wants to program it. 
:-)

---
T.E.D.    homepage   - http://www.telepath.com/dennison/Ted/TED.html

No trees were killed in the sending of this message. 
However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

Re: AdaOS

[Ted Dennison]

In article <9scke6$12jb14$1@ID-25716.news.dfncis.de>, Nick Roberts says...
>
>Yes, but Phil, it's not the actual bits of software that are redundant --
>I've no doubt they indeed do useful things -- it's the term 'HAL' that's
>redundant. The hardware abstraction layer IS the device drivers, and always
>has been. Someone's just invented a fancy name, that's all!

I think there's a bit more to it than that. I believe its purpose initially was
to shelter the kernel from processor implemenation details, so that only the HAL
would have to be rewritten to support a new processor. In that respect, you can
kind of think of it as a microkernel. 

---
T.E.D.    homepage   - http://www.telepath.com/dennison/Ted/TED.html

No trees were killed in the sending of this message. 
However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

Re: AdaOS

[Peter Hend�n]

[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 582 bytes --]

Ted Dennison wrote:
> Yeah, its a Microsoftism, I believe. They also went and defined a "Harware
> Emulation Layer". For some reason, no one wants to program it.

I'm not so certain it's a MS-ism. I know the topic was discussed in
the early 80's, and I doubt that there was any MS products anywhere
near. Possibly it was a DEC-ism in those days.

Anyhow, the concept has been adopted by Cygwin (eCos) and some
real-time linux projects.

/Peter H.

--
Peter Hend�n           http://www.algonet.se/~phenden/
ICQ: 14672398
Teknisk Dokumentation AB          http://www.tdab.com/

Re: AdaOS

[Nick Roberts]

I suppose from Microsoft's point of view its a useful marketroidal term:
either they or third parties supply the device drivers, but the
PC/motherboard manufacturer supplies the HAL. Ever since the invention of
the IBM PC there has been the curious and unique (in its extent) phenomenon
of hardware being arduously designed to fit pre-existing software.

From my point of view, there's no technical difference between different
levels of DD. In AdaOS, there will be some DDs three or four levels above
the hardware. E.g. the Virtual Graphics Console DD will communicate with a
mouse DD, but that might communicate with the actual mouse through the
serial port DD and serial port. To say any one of these levels is a
'hardware abstraction layer' would, of course be completely arbitrary, so I
hope it's not a term taught to students.

--
Best wishes,
Nick Roberts



"Ted Dennison" <dennison@telepath.com> wrote in message
news:eaTG7.18956$xS6.30442@www.newsranger.com...
> ...

Re: AdaOS

[Eric Merritt]

--- Ted Dennison <dennison@telepath.com> wrote:
> In article
> <9s9413$11mrei$1@ID-25716.news.dfncis.de>, Nick
> Roberts says...
> >
> >Ah, yes, of course! We don't have device drivers
> any more, we have "Hardware
> >Abstraction Layers".
> >
> >;-)
> 
> Yeah, its a Microsoftism, I believe. They also went
> and defined a "Harware
> Emulation Layer". For some reason, no one wants to
> program it. 
> :-)


Actually it was done on IBMs As/400 and its ancestors
(System 32, 36, 38) long before microsoft got the
idea. except there it was called a TIMI layer.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Find a job, post your resume.
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Re: AdaOS

[Mats Karlssohn]

Ted Dennison wrote:
> 
> In article <9scke6$12jb14$1@ID-25716.news.dfncis.de>, Nick Roberts says...
> >
> >Yes, but Phil, it's not the actual bits of software that are redundant --
> >I've no doubt they indeed do useful things -- it's the term 'HAL' that's
> >redundant. The hardware abstraction layer IS the device drivers, and always
> >has been. Someone's just invented a fancy name, that's all!
> 
> I think there's a bit more to it than that. I believe its purpose initially was
> to shelter the kernel from processor implemenation details, so that only the HAL
> would have to be rewritten to support a new processor. In that respect, you can
> kind of think of it as a microkernel.

As usual you are quite right Ted. Please correct me if I'm workn, but I've
been led to belive that in NT the main purpose of the HAL is to isolate the
device drivers from the architectural differenses of of different processors
and machines. Like the difference between the separate I/O addresspace of
the x86 vs. {alpha,mips} memory mapped I/O, the idea is that the same device
driver can be used for a card, it doesn't matter weather the card is in
a AlphaStation or an Intel box. There is more to it though (as usual).



-- 
Mats Karlssohn, developer                         mailto:mats@mida.se  
Mida Systemutveckling AB                          http://www.mida.se
Box 64, S-732 22 ARBOGA, SWEDEN
Phone: +46-(0)589-89808   Fax: +46-(0)589-89809

Re: AdaOS

[Ted Dennison]

In article <3BF019F4.C9C460E5@mida.se>, Mats Karlssohn says...
>
>been led to belive that in NT the main purpose of the HAL is to isolate the
>device drivers from the architectural differenses of of different processors
>and machines. Like the difference between the separate I/O addresspace of
>the x86 vs. {alpha,mips} memory mapped I/O, the idea is that the same device
>driver can be used for a card, it doesn't matter weather the card is in
>a AlphaStation or an Intel box. There is more to it though (as usual).

The device drivers and the NT kernel both. I think they went with that design
because they were initially planning on porting NT to a great number of
platforms, and they didn't want to have to make changes all over the OS every
time that was done. However, they only ever had ports for 3 platforms, and they
soon dropped one of those.

---
T.E.D.    homepage   - http://www.telepath.com/dennison/Ted/TED.html

No trees were killed in the sending of this message. 
However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

Re: AdaOS

[Marin David Condic]

I wonder why that was? It seems to me that a portable operating system that
ran on a variety of hardware would be a *good* thing for business. (Some
businesses.) What got in the way of - say - making it work on a Sun?

A portable operating system with a portable language ought to be good for
someone who is marketing software, don't you think? Write-once,
Compile-many? But then, if that were true, Ada with an Ada OS ought to be a
marketable concept - yet it doesn't seem to gain much traction? What is the
downside?

Possibly that other players would then be able to easily develop to the same
platforms and a Really Big Software Business might want to make it hard for
other players to do ports to all kinds of hardware? (They, having more
resources, might have an advantage trying to port to a dozen platforms while
a small company might not.)  Still doesn't seem to add up, given that I
don't know that Microsoft is seriously playing in the Sun/Sparc arena, for
example, so why try to keep small competitors out? And making your OS work
on Sun hardware seems to just make an inroad into new business.

MDC
--
Marin David Condic
Senior Software Engineer
Pace Micro Technology Americas    www.pacemicro.com
Enabling the digital revolution
e-Mail:    marin.condic@pacemicro.com
Web:      http://www.mcondic.com/


"Ted Dennison" <dennison@telepath.com> wrote in message
news:mWVH7.22092$xS6.34190@www.newsranger.com...
>
> The device drivers and the NT kernel both. I think they went with that
design
> because they were initially planning on porting NT to a great number of
> platforms, and they didn't want to have to make changes all over the OS
every
> time that was done. However, they only ever had ports for 3 platforms, and
they
> soon dropped one of those.

Re: AdaOS

[Ted Dennison]

In article <9spbf4$i7l$1@nh.pace.co.uk>, Marin David Condic says...
>
>I wonder why that was? It seems to me that a portable operating system that
>ran on a variety of hardware would be a *good* thing for business. (Some
>businesses.) What got in the way of - say - making it work on a Sun?

Think about this for a minute. Up until a year or so ago, Sun was Microsoft
enemy #1. Sun pretty much makes their money off of hardware sales. Now think
hard... :-)

>A portable operating system with a portable language ought to be good for
>someone who is marketing software, don't you think? Write-once,
>Compile-many? But then, if that were true, Ada with an Ada OS ought to be a
>marketable concept - yet it doesn't seem to gain much traction? What is the
>downside?

For an OS vendor, it may be true that more platforms=more sales. For a software
monopolist that uses OS and business applications dominance as its leverage (as
found by the Federal courts), a completely different set of economics applies. I
suspect that if the verdict to split the company had stood, there may have been
some renewed interest from the MS-OS company for NT ports. But I guess we'll
never know now.

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Re: AdaOS

[Brian Catlin]

The HAL is essentially the driver for the motherboard, and controls the
interrupt controller, DMA controller, timer, etc.  The HAL used to contain the
bus drivers through NT4, but starting with Windows 2000, the bus drivers were
migrated out of the HAL and into standalone drivers, reducing the need for OEMs
to create their own HALs (most were created to deal with PCI controllers and
non-Intel core logic).  The kernel is processor architecture specific (there is
a different kernel for each supported architecture, x86, Alpha, PPC, MIPS,
Itanium), while the executive is the same across all platforms.

 -Brian

--
Brian Catlin, Sannas Consulting 310-798-8930
Windows NT/2000 Internals, WDM Device Driver Training & Consulting
See WWW.AZIUS.COM for courses and scheduling

"Mats Karlssohn" <mats@mida.se> wrote in message
news:3BF019F4.C9C460E5@mida.se...
> Ted Dennison wrote:
> >
> > In article <9scke6$12jb14$1@ID-25716.news.dfncis.de>, Nick Roberts says...
> > >
> > >Yes, but Phil, it's not the actual bits of software that are redundant --
> > >I've no doubt they indeed do useful things -- it's the term 'HAL' that's
> > >redundant. The hardware abstraction layer IS the device drivers, and always
> > >has been. Someone's just invented a fancy name, that's all!
> >
> > I think there's a bit more to it than that. I believe its purpose initially
was
> > to shelter the kernel from processor implemenation details, so that only the
HAL
> > would have to be rewritten to support a new processor. In that respect, you
can
> > kind of think of it as a microkernel.
>
> As usual you are quite right Ted. Please correct me if I'm workn, but I've
> been led to belive that in NT the main purpose of the HAL is to isolate the
> device drivers from the architectural differenses of of different processors
> and machines. Like the difference between the separate I/O addresspace of
> the x86 vs. {alpha,mips} memory mapped I/O, the idea is that the same device
> driver can be used for a card, it doesn't matter weather the card is in
> a AlphaStation or an Intel box. There is more to it though (as usual).
>
>
>
> --
> Mats Karlssohn, developer                         mailto:mats@mida.se
> Mida Systemutveckling AB                          http://www.mida.se
> Box 64, S-732 22 ARBOGA, SWEDEN
> Phone: +46-(0)589-89808   Fax: +46-(0)589-89809

Re: AdaOS

[Nick Roberts]

This thread has thrown up some interesting tidbits of information about
Windows! I feel that "device driver for the motherboard" (DD/MB?) would have
been a more accurate (and less confusing) way of putting it than "hardware
abstraction layer".

Does anyone else -- outside the context of Windows -- make earnest use of
the term HAL?

--
Best wishes,
Nick Roberts



"Brian Catlin" <brianc@sannas.org> wrote in message
news:9t6av9$601$1@slb3.atl.mindspring.net...
> The HAL is essentially the driver for the motherboard, and controls the
> interrupt controller, DMA controller, timer, etc.  The HAL used to contain
the
> bus drivers through NT4, but starting with Windows 2000, the bus drivers
were
> migrated out of the HAL and into standalone drivers, reducing the need for
OEMs
> to create their own HALs (most were created to deal with PCI controllers
and
> non-Intel core logic).  The kernel is processor architecture specific
(there is
> a different kernel for each supported architecture, x86, Alpha, PPC, MIPS,
> Itanium), while the executive is the same across all platforms.

Re: AdaOS

[Marin David Condic]

My thinking on it goes like this: Use any term you like so long as you a)
define what you mean by it and b) use it consistently. HAL is fine with me -
if it means you're going to code a bunch of small routines that isolate how
things work on a specific processor to make it easier to port, that's a
legitimate goal. Sounds like it differs to some extent from a device
driver - although the goals of portability are similar.

MDC
--
Marin David Condic
Senior Software Engineer
Pace Micro Technology Americas    www.pacemicro.com
Enabling the digital revolution
e-Mail:    marin.condic@pacemicro.com
Web:      http://www.mcondic.com/


"Nick Roberts" <nickroberts@adaos.worldonline.co.uk> wrote in message
news:9t6srn$nbro$1@ID-25716.news.dfncis.de...
>
> Does anyone else -- outside the context of Windows -- make earnest use of
> the term HAL?
>

Re: AdaOS

[Ted Dennison]

In article <9t6srn$nbro$1@ID-25716.news.dfncis.de>, Nick Roberts says...
>
>Does anyone else -- outside the context of Windows -- make earnest use of
>the term HAL?

Not that I've ever heard. I think most reasonable CS types would prefer to avoid
any assoication with their work and the beserk computer from 2001. :-)

---
T.E.D.    homepage   - http://www.telepath.com/dennison/Ted/TED.html

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However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

Re: AdaOS

[Peter Hend�n]

"Ted Dennison" <dennison@telepath.com> wrote in message
news:A8bK7.30408$xS6.49183@www.newsranger.com...
> In article <9t6srn$nbro$1@ID-25716.news.dfncis.de>, Nick Roberts says...
> >
> >Does anyone else -- outside the context of Windows -- make earnest use of
> >the term HAL?
>
> Not that I've ever heard. I think most reasonable CS types would prefer to
avoid
> any assoication with their work and the beserk computer from 2001. :-)

http://sources.redhat.com/ecos/docs-1.2.1/ref/ecos-ref/the-ecos-hardware-abs
traction-layer-hal.html

http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=3576

http://www.aero.polimi.it/projects/rtai/

Personally I heard it some 20 years ago in a definitely non-Microsofty CS
environment. The term HAL may have originated at Digital, but thats just
a guess based on the fact that most computers in that environment were
DEC PDP-11s, 10s and 20s.

/Peter H.

Re: AdaOS

[Ted Dennison]

[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 601 bytes --]

In article <9tbnrp$mok$1@green.tninet.se>, Peter Hend�n says...
>
>Personally I heard it some 20 years ago in a definitely non-Microsofty CS
>environment. The term HAL may have originated at Digital, but thats just
>a guess based on the fact that most computers in that environment were
>DEC PDP-11s, 10s and 20s.

That would explain its reappearance in NT (some of the NT designers were ex DEC
folk).

---
T.E.D.    homepage   - http://www.telepath.com/dennison/Ted/TED.html

No trees were killed in the sending of this message. 
However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

AdaOS

[Peter I. Hansen]

Hello

The AdaOS homepage seems to have disappeared...
What happened. I hope that the project will be continued.

/Peter

Re: AdaOS

[Preben Randhol]

"Peter I. Hansen" <pih@oek.dk> wrote on 11/06/2002 (00:42) :
> Hello
> 
> The AdaOS homepage seems to have disappeared...
> What happened. I hope that the project will be continued.

Go to:

   http://64.91.233.59/home/index.php

-- 
Preben Randhol ------------------- http://www.pvv.org/~randhol/ --
                 �For me, Ada95 puts back the joy in programming.�

Re: AdaOS

[Gerhard Häring]

Preben Randhol wrote in comp.lang.ada:
> "Peter I. Hansen" <pih@oek.dk> wrote on 11/06/2002 (00:42) :
>> The AdaOS homepage seems to have disappeared...

Perhaps this vapourware website full of speling erors is better put
offline, anyway.

>> What happened.

Since the announcement in 1999? Nothing.

> I hope that the project will be continued.

The secret plan is for Windows and Linux to fade away first ;-)

Gerhard, hiding from the forthcoming flames
-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de       registered Linux user #64239
web:    http://www.cs.fhm.edu/~ifw00065/    OpenPGP public key id AD24C930
public key fingerprint: 3FCC 8700 3012 0A9E B0C9  3667 814B 9CAA AD24 C930
reduce(lambda x,y:x+y,map(lambda x:chr(ord(x)^42),tuple('zS^BED\nX_FOY\x0b')))

Re: AdaOS

[Preben Randhol]

Gerhard H�ring <gerhard@bigfoot.de> wrote on 11/06/2002 (01:42) :
> Preben Randhol wrote in comp.lang.ada:

For the record I didn't say anything of the below. Can't you people get
your quotings right? It isn't bloody rocket-science you know :-(

> > "Peter I. Hansen" <pih@oek.dk> wrote on 11/06/2002 (00:42) :
> >> The AdaOS homepage seems to have disappeared...
> 
> Perhaps this vapourware website full of speling erors is better put
> offline, anyway.
> 
> >> What happened.
> 
> Since the announcement in 1999? Nothing.
> 
> > I hope that the project will be continued.
> 
> The secret plan is for Windows and Linux to fade away first ;-)
> 
> Gerhard, hiding from the forthcoming flames

-- 
Preben Randhol ------------------- http://www.pvv.org/~randhol/ --
                 �For me, Ada95 puts back the joy in programming.�

Re: AdaOS

[Wes Groleau]

Gerhard H�ring wrote:
> Perhaps this vapourware website full of speling erors is better put
> offline, anyway.

You are German, and you have two spelling errors
above.  Give a Portuguese guy a little slack!

-- 
Wes Groleau
http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~wgroleau

Re: AdaOS

[Preben Randhol]

Wes Groleau <wesgroleau@despammed.com> wrote on 11/06/2002 (18:52) :
> 
> Gerhard H�ring wrote:
> > Perhaps this vapourware website full of speling erors is better put
> > offline, anyway.
> 
> You are German, and you have two spelling errors
> above.  Give a Portuguese guy a little slack!

Although I think that may be those spelling errors were intentional I
agree with you. English pronunciation versus spelling isn't exactly an
exact science either :-)

-- 
Preben Randhol ------------------- http://www.pvv.org/~randhol/ --
                 �For me, Ada95 puts back the joy in programming.�