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From: "G.B." <bauhaus@futureapps.invalid>
Subject: Re: Languages don't  matter.  A mathematical refutation
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2015 15:14:59 +0200
Date: 2015-04-09T15:14:59+02:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <mg5tup$bc2$1@dont-email.me> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <ajhl78cb3zbg$.1ipt9woml0elc.dlg@40tude.net>

On 09.04.15 11:38, Dmitry A. Kazakov wrote:

>> (Or else, at least provide more efficient, more predictable containers
>> based on contracts. ;-)

I mentioned containers because Randy reminded us of
their usefulness as automatic storage managers.
(Containers with contracts have already appeared in GNAT.)

> And the smiley means? You certainly know that there is no way to contract
> [*] GC.

It seems possible to guarantee certain properties of GC.
That's the supplier's side of the contract.

Properties of the collection process can be abstracted
into mathematical estimates, and reliably so, I think.
Consider

   pragma Suppress

The idea of suppressing checks, if "ported" to containers
could be based on observing the container's expectations:
First,

    Container: "Don't do This!
      Because I will be assuming v(This) = False."

The algorithmic "conclusion" then becomes that all checks
that Ada normally associates with This can be Suppressed.
(Tampering, cursors carrying their containers, etc.)

That's the first win. It depends on contracts and clients
being written accordingly.

Now, WRT storage management, assume a bounded container.
The implementation may pre-allocate the maximum number of
objects.(*) Given that, why should it not be possible at all,
in no case, to guarantee a known complexity of storage
management? A bounded vector, say, could specify its
storage management needs, on condition that ... Much like
a hash table package would state that

   "As long as the number of slots is as least N/M,
    finding an object will take no more than f(M, N, g(Hash))."

Thus, if every 5 timeslices, 3 are needed for working with
the data stored in the container, and this container instance
guarantees that maximally 1 timeslice is needed for all possible
storage management cases, there is 1 left for any lags.


> GC is non-functional and unrelated to the program behavior, which is
> another way to explain why GC is neither low nor high level. It is
> non-existent.

Like everything that actually handles program data, GC does
influence the program's behavior, e.g. by taking time.
Hence, one may influence GC in server JVMs, for example.
But that's the point. Suppose there is an abstract description
of GC behavior, in terms of parameters. Will the description
be sufficiently detailed for guiding the design of an algorithm?

__
(*)For the sake of simplicity, WLOG. (I think GNAT's variant
records are similar.)


  reply	other threads:[~2015-04-09 13:14 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 94+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2015-03-25 11:46 Languages don't matter. A mathematical refutation Jean François Martinez
2015-03-25 15:19 ` Paul Rubin
2015-04-03  0:50   ` robin.vowels
2015-04-03  2:18     ` Jeffrey Carter
2015-04-03 13:37       ` Bob Duff
2015-04-03 14:13         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-04-03 17:34           ` Paul Rubin
2015-04-03 19:34             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-04-03 19:58               ` Paul Rubin
2015-04-04  6:59                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-04-06 21:12                   ` Paul Rubin
2015-04-07  5:57                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-04-08  4:12                       ` Paul Rubin
2015-04-08  6:45                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-04-04  0:41             ` Dennis Lee Bieber
2015-04-04  3:05               ` Paul Rubin
2015-04-04 14:46                 ` Dennis Lee Bieber
2015-04-04 15:41                   ` brbarkstrom
2015-04-04 19:20                   ` Paul Rubin
2015-04-04 20:00                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-04-04 20:44                       ` Paul Rubin
2015-04-05  8:00                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-04-05  9:55                           ` Brian Drummond
2015-04-06 21:27                             ` Randy Brukardt
2015-04-06 17:07                           ` Paul Rubin
2015-04-06 17:41                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-04-06 18:35                               ` Paul Rubin
2015-04-06 21:46                                 ` Randy Brukardt
2015-04-06 22:12                                   ` Paul Rubin
2015-04-06 23:40                                     ` Jeffrey Carter
2015-04-07 19:07                                     ` Randy Brukardt
2015-04-08  3:53                                       ` Paul Rubin
2015-04-08 21:16                                         ` Randy Brukardt
2015-04-09  1:36                                           ` Paul Rubin
2015-04-09 23:26                                             ` Randy Brukardt
2015-04-09  2:36                                           ` David Botton
2015-04-09  8:55                                           ` Georg Bauhaus
2015-04-09  9:38                                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-04-09 13:14                                               ` G.B. [this message]
2015-04-09 14:35                                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-04-09 15:43                                                   ` G.B.
2015-04-09 17:26                                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-04-09 18:40                                                   ` Niklas Holsti
2015-04-09 19:02                                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-04-09 20:38                                                       ` Paul Rubin
2015-04-09 23:35                                             ` Randy Brukardt
2015-04-10 14:16                                               ` G.B.
2015-04-10 20:58                                                 ` Randy Brukardt
2015-04-07  0:36                                 ` Dennis Lee Bieber
2015-04-05 13:57                     ` Dennis Lee Bieber
2015-04-03 16:17         ` J-P. Rosen
2015-04-03 17:33           ` Bob Duff
2015-04-26 11:38             ` David Thompson
2015-04-03 19:00         ` Georg Bauhaus
2015-04-03 19:12         ` Jeffrey Carter
2015-04-03 22:37           ` Bob Duff
2015-04-03 23:38             ` Jeffrey Carter
2015-04-04  0:15               ` Bob Duff
2015-04-04  7:06                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-04-04  2:59               ` Paul Rubin
2015-04-04  0:56             ` Dennis Lee Bieber
2015-03-25 17:12 ` Jean François Martinez
2015-03-26 13:43 ` Maciej Sobczak
2015-03-26 15:01   ` Jean François Martinez
2015-03-26 17:45     ` Jeffrey Carter
2015-03-26 15:21   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-03-27 11:25     ` Jean François Martinez
2015-03-27 17:36       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-03-30 10:31         ` Jean François Martinez
2015-03-30 11:52           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-03-30 12:32             ` G.B.
2015-03-30 13:48               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-03-30 15:47                 ` G.B.
2015-03-30 16:05                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-04-02 12:59                     ` brbarkstrom
2015-04-02 13:35                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-04-02 14:48                         ` jm.tarrasa
2015-04-02 15:55                           ` brbarkstrom
2015-04-02 16:21                             ` Jean François Martinez
2015-04-02 16:48                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-04-02 16:41                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-04-04 10:02                             ` jm.tarrasa
2015-04-04 11:16                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-04-02 15:58                         ` Jean François Martinez
2015-04-02 16:39                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-04-03  9:46                             ` Jean François Martinez
2015-04-03 14:00                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-04-03 17:12                                 ` Jean François Martinez
2015-04-02 17:17                         ` G.B.
2015-04-02 19:09                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-04-02 18:24                       ` Niklas Holsti
2015-04-02 18:43                       ` Jeffrey Carter
2015-03-30 11:36         ` Jean François Martinez
2015-03-30 10:48       ` jm.tarrasa
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