Re: urgent question to maintain the ada-language inside the enterprise

Re: urgent question to maintain the ada-language inside the enterprise

[DPH]

Maybe its the fact that our particular Ada project using Green Hills Ada
compiles in 21 minutes on our supposedly quick (1 yr old, 4 processors)  Sun
computer, and 16 minutes on the Green Hills equipped PC?

Or maybe they have gotten sick of a particluar piece of cranky hardware that
repeatedly fails on their multi-user Unix machine that throws the entire team
into ldleness until it is fixed a week later, as opposed to the HW failure on
a PC that only affects 1 person, for whom a whole new computer can be bought
and configured in less than a week instead of waiting for repair from the Big
City?

Our project has considered moving to the PC environment for these reasons.

Plus there is the price of the average SUN machine vs. the price of a fast NT
Workstation.  Everone on the project has a PC as part of working at the site
anyway, so the Unix machine is really redundant.  Maybe if companies like SUN
would make a decent attempt to build personal computers for home use, things
would be different.

Dave Head

bill@nospammail.com wrote:

> In article <Vzuv5.2264$R_2.37188@afrodite.telenet-ops.be>, "DC" says...
> >
> >hello,
> >  Can anyone help me ?
> >
> >   a.  We are currently working (design and analysis maintenance) with a
> >toolcase : TEAMWORK on unix
> > servers(programming language : ada).
> >        We would like to work on windowsNT instead and continue working
> >with ada
>
> I'd just LOVE to hear the logic and the reasoning behind such a move.
>
> To leave Unix programming env. and to move to windows?
>
> It must be that DOS batch files are so much more powerfull than bash shell
> scripts, or may be windows has more pretty colors? let me see, it must
> be that your programmers prefer to point and click more?
>
> btw, if you want pretty colors and point and click, it is all now
> on Unix. see http://www.gnome.org and http://www.kde.org. Sun Solaris
> next OS version will have gnome as its default desktop.
>
> Now since your got your point and click and colors on Unix, do you
> still really want to move to windows/DOS ?
>
> Bill

urgent question to maintain the ada-language inside the enterprise

[DC]

hello,
  Can anyone help me ?

   a.  We are currently working (design and analysis maintenance) with a
toolcase : TEAMWORK on unix          servers(programming language : ada).
        We would like to work on windowsNT instead and continue working with
ada
        Does anyone currently work with the case tool TEAMWORK (cadre) for
windowsNT, or has
        knowledge of persons, firms that do so ?
        Could you please give us some poc ?

    b. Our second option is to change to a new case tool.
        Can anyone recomment a good, solid case tool or give some references
?

   c.  The entire development (design and analysis) has been made with the
case tool teamwork. For all
        packages , procedures,... we have a  graphical view made with the
case tool. That allows to
        maintain the application in a much clearer way. it would be most
favorable if all of that work
        could be transformed toward the new case tool.
        Are there case tools which allow to do such a transfer and is it
possible for the case tools you have
        recommended ?

thx in advance
Christof

ps. Could you please reply to the following adress :
christof.denolf@army.mil.be

Re: urgent question to maintain the ada-language inside the enterprise

[bill]

In article <Vzuv5.2264$R_2.37188@afrodite.telenet-ops.be>, "DC" says...
>
>hello,
>  Can anyone help me ?
>
>   a.  We are currently working (design and analysis maintenance) with a
>toolcase : TEAMWORK on unix         
> servers(programming language : ada).
>        We would like to work on windowsNT instead and continue working 
>with ada

I'd just LOVE to hear the logic and the reasoning behind such a move.

To leave Unix programming env. and to move to windows?

It must be that DOS batch files are so much more powerfull than bash shell 
scripts, or may be windows has more pretty colors? let me see, it must
be that your programmers prefer to point and click more?

btw, if you want pretty colors and point and click, it is all now
on Unix. see http://www.gnome.org and http://www.kde.org. Sun Solaris
next OS version will have gnome as its default desktop.

Now since your got your point and click and colors on Unix, do you
still really want to move to windows/DOS ?

Bill

Re: urgent question to maintain the ada-language inside the enterprise

[peter]

In article <8qmkfo$blb$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Robert says...
 
>There are many legitimate reasons to consider using PC's not
>least of which is price performance, 

There used to be a distinction between the 'pc' and the workstation
some years ago, this is now all gone.

nowadays, one can get a 'pc' that is more powerfull than the most powerfull
workstation few years ago, and more powerfull than a mainframe
or a 'mini' computer few years ago also. 

nowadays one can also buy a Sun workstation for just about the price
of a 'pc'. Actually, it is impossible to know these days what is the
difference between a 'pc' and a workstation. 

peter

Re: urgent question to maintain the ada-language inside the enterprise

[Robert Dewar]

In article <39BE218D.B26DF3FD@kg.hsanet.net>,
  rally2xs@compuserve.com wrote:

> Our project has considered moving to the PC environment for
> these reasons.

There are many legitimate reasons to consider using PC's not
least of which is price performance, however, despite what
Microsoft might like you to think, moving to PC's does not
necessarily mean moving to NT.

GNAT currently supports the following operating systems on PC's

Linux
SCO Unix
Solaris x86
OS/2
Lynx

and yes

NT

in addition, there are volunteer ports for some other x86
OS's including netbsd and freebsd.

So you still have quite a bit of choice :-)


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Before you buy.

Re: urgent question to maintain the ada-language inside the enterprise

[nospam]

In article <r58A5.6582$O7.121171@ozemail.com.au>, "Chris says...
 
>
>And it doesn't have to be one or the other. My current favorite platform is
>a dual boot PC with (NT4/W2000) and Linux. This gives the best of both
>worlds, and you only need a single box on the desk.
>
>You can use MS Office to do all the usual corporate stuff (Staroffice
>isn't quite there yet), then hit ctrl-alt-del, and you have all the good old
>Unix "pigs in mud" Makefiles, CVS, editors, shell scripts and more. I do
>most Ada programming on Linux.
>
>I see this as being a common arrangement in coming years.
 
Chris, 

my arrangment I think is even better than yours.

I use Linux and have vmare running on it. I installed NT on vmware.

vmware is a virtual PC.  I do NOT have to reboot to use windows. I have
windows right now running inside an X window along side all my other
Linux applications.  NOt only that, using SAMBA, I have all my windows
data saved on my linux disks (easy to manage backup etc..).

It is great. The speed is not as good as when running windows native, but
for what I need it for, the speed is not that important (my hand is slow
anyway).

check it out. you can get a 30 days free trial of vmware for linux.
http://www.vmware.com

ps, this is not some sort of wine like thing, vmware runs ALL windows
applications, any one of them. you can install not only windows on the
vmware software, but any PC based OS theortically. I read that freebasd
could also be run on it. check vmware site for supported OS's.

Re: urgent question to maintain the ada-language inside the enterprise

[DPH]

Robert Dewar wrote:

> In article <39BE218D.B26DF3FD@kg.hsanet.net>,
>   rally2xs@compuserve.com wrote:
>
> > Our project has considered moving to the PC environment for
> > these reasons.
>
> There are many legitimate reasons to consider using PC's not
> least of which is price performance,

Yes, they're pretty cheap.


> however, despite what
> Microsoft might like you to think, moving to PC's does not
> necessarily mean moving to NT.
>
> GNAT currently supports the following operating systems on PC's
>
> Linux
> SCO Unix
> Solaris x86
> OS/2
> Lynx
>
> and yes
>
> NT
>
> in addition, there are volunteer ports for some other x86
> OS's including netbsd and freebsd.
>
> So you still have quite a bit of choice :-)

Don't think too many of the folks will want give up Microsoft Office
when their desktop PC is converted to Linux or Unix or whatever, nor
spend the extra time necessary to get familiar with whatever utilities
are used to do the common stuff like packing and unpacking zip files,
running streaming audio and video, etc.  Also, Microsoft Outlook is the
_official corporate_ e-mail program, so rebooting periodically to
download e-mail would be a drag.

No, only NT or W2000 would really make sense for us in our present
environment, unless we were going to buy standalone machines to boot to
Unix and leave running, just for developonig software.  But then there
goes the $$$ savings when compared with just using the current PC.

Dave Head

Re: urgent question to maintain the ada-language inside the enterprise

[Chris Miller]

> There are many legitimate reasons to consider using PC's not
> least of which is price performance, however, despite what
> Microsoft might like you to think, moving to PC's does not
> necessarily mean moving to NT.

And it doesn't have to be one or the other. My current favorite platform is
a dual boot PC with (NT4/W2000) and Linux. This gives the best of both
worlds, and you only need a single box on the desk.

You can use MS Office to do all the usual corporate stuff (Staroffice
isn't quite there yet), then hit ctrl-alt-del, and you have all the good old
Unix "pigs in mud" Makefiles, CVS, editors, shell scripts and more. I do
most Ada programming on Linux.

I see this as being a common arrangement in coming years.

Chris Miller
26/9/2000.

Re: urgent question to maintain the ada-language inside the enterprise

[Shayne Flint]

nospam@nospam wrote:

> In article <r58A5.6582$O7.121171@ozemail.com.au>, "Chris says...
>
> >
> >And it doesn't have to be one or the other. My current favorite platform is
> >a dual boot PC with (NT4/W2000) and Linux. This gives the best of both
> >worlds, and you only need a single box on the desk.
> >
> >You can use MS Office to do all the usual corporate stuff (Staroffice
> >isn't quite there yet), then hit ctrl-alt-del, and you have all the good old
> >Unix "pigs in mud" Makefiles, CVS, editors, shell scripts and more. I do
> >most Ada programming on Linux.
> >
> >I see this as being a common arrangement in coming years.
>
> Chris,
>
> my arrangment I think is even better than yours.
>
> I use Linux and have vmare running on it. I installed NT on vmware.
>
> vmware is a virtual PC.  I do NOT have to reboot to use windows. I have
> windows right now running inside an X window along side all my other
> Linux applications.  NOt only that, using SAMBA, I have all my windows
> data saved on my linux disks (easy to manage backup etc..).
>
> It is great. The speed is not as good as when running windows native, but
> for what I need it for, the speed is not that important (my hand is slow
> anyway).
>
> check it out. you can get a 30 days free trial of vmware for linux.
> http://www.vmware.com
>
> ps, this is not some sort of wine like thing, vmware runs ALL windows
> applications, any one of them. you can install not only windows on the
> vmware software, but any PC based OS theortically. I read that freebasd
> could also be run on it. check vmware site for supported OS's.

Have a look at www.win4lin.com - it seems faster than vmware and is a lot
cheaper. Unlike vmware, however, it will only allow you to install win 95/98. If
limux is your main platform and you use windows for office apps, then Win 98 is
probably OK.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------
-- Shayne Flint, MIEAust, CPEng        shayne@ainslie-software.com
-- Ainslie Software Pty Limited    http://www.ainslie-software.com
--
--     AdaJNI - Using Java APIs with Native Ada Compilers
------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: urgent question to maintain the ada-language inside the enterprise

[Ted Dennison]

In article <8qrrdk0191a@drn.newsguy.com>,
  nospam@nospam wrote:
> In article <r58A5.6582$O7.121171@ozemail.com.au>, "Chris says...
>
> >
> >And it doesn't have to be one or the other. My current favorite
> >platform is a dual boot PC with (NT4/W2000) and Linux. This gives the
> >best of both worlds, and you only need a single box on the desk.
> >
> >You can use MS Office to do all the usual corporate stuff (Staroffice
> >isn't quite there yet), then hit ctrl-alt-del, and you have all the
> >good old Unix "pigs in mud" Makefiles, CVS, editors, shell scripts
> >and more. I do most Ada programming on Linux.
> my arrangment I think is even better than yours.
>
> I use Linux and have vmare running on it. I installed NT on vmware.
> vmware is a virtual PC.  I do NOT have to reboot to use windows. I

You could also go the other way. I stick with Windows 2K, but have
cygwin installed with it. That gives me nearly all of Unix (certianly
everything Chris mentioned), while running under Windows. The
only significant piece I'm missing is gprof. And I seriously doubt
vmware can run Diablo II.

--
T.E.D.

http://www.telepath.com/~dennison/Ted/TED.html


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Before you buy.

Re: urgent question to maintain the ada-language inside the enterprise

[nospam]

In article <8qsvhd$tld$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Ted says...
 
>You could also go the other way. I stick with Windows 2K, but have
>cygwin installed with it. That gives me nearly all of Unix (certianly
>everything Chris mentioned), while running under Windows. 
 
The only problem I had with this setup, is that I could not find a good
enough X server to run under windows. I tried few, but they would crash,
or behave differently from X under Unix/Linux.  

Also Bash had some bugs under cygwin. Also, you do not all the Unix
commands and tools under cygwin as you do with Linux.

Overall, things did not work as well for me as using bash and X windows 
under Unix. But it is certinaly a possible solution for the problem of
having both Unix and windows env. on same desktop. 

Re: urgent question to maintain the ada-language inside the enterprise

[Michael S. Simpson]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1496 bytes --]

Christof:

Check on a product called Cool Jex.  It used to be known as ObjectTeam
and was an OO model of Cadre TeamWork.  I think the company name was
Sterling Software of Plano, Texas (USA).

Mike Simpson
Speaking only for myself...


DC wrote:
> 
> hello,
>   Can anyone help me ?
> 
>    a.  We are currently working (design and analysis maintenance) with a
> toolcase : TEAMWORK on unix          servers(programming language : ada).
>         We would like to work on windowsNT instead and continue working with
> ada
>         Does anyone currently work with the case tool TEAMWORK (cadre) for
> windowsNT, or has
>         knowledge of persons, firms that do so ?
>         Could you please give us some poc ?
> 
>     b. Our second option is to change to a new case tool.
>         Can anyone recomment a good, solid case tool or give some references
> ?
> 
>    c.  The entire development (design and analysis) has been made with the
> case tool teamwork. For all
>         packages , procedures,... we have a  graphical view made with the
> case tool. That allows to
>         maintain the application in a much clearer way. it would be most
> favorable if all of that work
>         could be transformed toward the new case tool.
>         Are there case tools which allow to do such a transfer and is it
> possible for the case tools you have
>         recommended ?
> 
> thx in advance
> Christof
> 
> ps. Could you please reply to the following adress :
> christof.denolf@army.mil.be

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email;internet:mssimpson@west.raytheon.com
fn:Michael Simpson
end:vcard

Re: urgent question to maintain the ada-language inside the enterprise

[David Starner]

On Wed, 27 Sep 2000 14:17:25 GMT, Ted Dennison wrote:
>everything Chris mentioned), while running under Windows. The
>only significant piece I'm missing is gprof. And I seriously doubt
>vmware can run Diablo II.

Why? It's a general CPU virtualizer running a real copy of Windows on a 
partially simulated chip. It should run anything that Windows can.

-- 
David Starner - dstarner98@aasaa.ofe.org
http/ftp: dvdeug.dhis.org
And crawling, on the planet's face, some insects called the human race.
Lost in space, lost in time, and meaning.
	-- RHPS

Re: urgent question to maintain the ada-language inside the enterprise

[Pascal Obry]

Ted Dennison <dennison@telepath.com> writes:

> You could also go the other way. I stick with Windows 2K, but have
> cygwin installed with it. That gives me nearly all of Unix (certianly
> everything Chris mentioned), while running under Windows. The
> only significant piece I'm missing is gprof. And I seriously doubt
> vmware can run Diablo II.
> 

gprof is included with GNAT for Windows.

Pascal.

-- 

--|------------------------------------------------------
--| Pascal Obry                           Team-Ada Member
--| 45, rue Gabriel Peri - 78114 Magny Les Hameaux FRANCE
--|------------------------------------------------------
--|         http://perso.wanadoo.fr/pascal.obry
--|
--| "The best way to travel is by means of imagination"

Re: urgent question to maintain the ada-language inside the enterprise

[Ted Dennison]

In article <8qt1cn$7hu1@news.cis.okstate.edu>,
  dstarner98@aasaa.ofe.org wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Sep 2000 14:17:25 GMT, Ted Dennison wrote:
> >everything Chris mentioned), while running under Windows. The
> >only significant piece I'm missing is gprof. And I seriously doubt
> >vmware can run Diablo II.
>
> Why? It's a general CPU virtualizer running a real copy of Windows on
> a partially simulated chip. It should run anything that Windows can.

See http://www.vmware.com/products/productfaq.html#games

One issue they *don't* mention is that most commercial games are written
as if they are going to be the only application running on the machine.
That means even if the emulation was great, you'd probably need loads
more memory and CPU to get the same performance. On my Win2k machine, I
had to upgrade to 256Meg of RAM to get rid of D2's disk swapping during
network games when loads of enemies are on the screen (just when you
*need* it to be running smoothly). The slowdowns were literally killing
me. It'd probably need loads more memory and a faster CPU if it also had
a second OS to deal with.

--
T.E.D.
(aka: Gonad the Barbarian, level 26, Normal)
http://www.telepath.com/~dennison/Ted/TED.html


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Before you buy.

Re: urgent question to maintain the ada-language inside the enterprise

[Greg Gorman]

Teamwork is available on Windows/NT, contact your local Computer Associates
sales office for pricing. The database files are compatible (use dump_tsa
and load_tsa to move) if you are running at least Teamwork 7.1 on Unix.

/Greg Gorman

"DC" <christof.denolf@pandora.be> wrote in message
news:Vzuv5.2264$R_2.37188@afrodite.telenet-ops.be...
> hello,
>   Can anyone help me ?
>
>    a.  We are currently working (design and analysis maintenance) with a
> toolcase : TEAMWORK on unix          servers(programming language : ada).
>         We would like to work on windowsNT instead and continue working
with
> ada
>         Does anyone currently work with the case tool TEAMWORK (cadre) for
> windowsNT, or has
>         knowledge of persons, firms that do so ?
>         Could you please give us some poc ?
>
>     b. Our second option is to change to a new case tool.
>         Can anyone recomment a good, solid case tool or give some
references
> ?
>
>    c.  The entire development (design and analysis) has been made with the
> case tool teamwork. For all
>         packages , procedures,... we have a  graphical view made with the
> case tool. That allows to
>         maintain the application in a much clearer way. it would be most
> favorable if all of that work
>         could be transformed toward the new case tool.
>         Are there case tools which allow to do such a transfer and is it
> possible for the case tools you have
>         recommended ?
>
> thx in advance
> Christof
>
> ps. Could you please reply to the following adress :
> christof.denolf@army.mil.be
>
>
>

Re: urgent question to maintain the ada-language inside the enterprise

[Ted Dennison]

In article <usnqly957.fsf@wanadoo.fr>,
  Pascal Obry <p.obry@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
>
> Ted Dennison <dennison@telepath.com> writes:
>
> > everything Chris mentioned), while running under Windows. The
> > only significant piece I'm missing is gprof. And I seriously doubt
>
> gprof is included with GNAT for Windows.

Whoops. I meant "gperf"

I was only off by a vowel! :-)

--
T.E.D.

http://www.telepath.com/~dennison/Ted/TED.html


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Re: urgent question to maintain the ada-language inside the enterprise

[Ted Dennison]

In article <8rg48a$ip4$1@nnrp1.deja.com>,
  Ted Dennison <dennison@telepath.com> wrote:
> In article <usnqly957.fsf@wanadoo.fr>,
>   Pascal Obry <p.obry@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
> > gprof is included with GNAT for Windows.
>
> Whoops. I meant "gperf"

Hmmm. No I *did* mean "gprof" after all. It isn't included with Cygwin
(at least not the "b20" version I have). But Pascal was quite right. It
is indeed installed with the latest Win32 version of Gnat. Unfortunately
it seems to blow up when I feed it a lot of data, but I can work on
that.

Well, hopefully that will be the stupidest thing I say today. But the
day is still distressingly young...

--
T.E.D.

http://www.telepath.com/~dennison/Ted/TED.html


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