Bye, bye?

Bye, bye?

[Wes Groleau]

Long, long, ago, I said that I would change careers
rather than do more than 10% C++.

I was a substitute teacher for two years, but the bills
caught up.  I'm still keeping my promise, though.
I do Visual Basic at work, and perl at home.  :-)

Actually, I kind of like both, but they're not Ada.
Someday I may get back to Ada at home.  But no amount
of wishing is going to make it happen at work.

(Consider this a troll and ignore it.  Just thinking out loud.)

-- 
Wes Groleau

He that complies against his will is of the same opinion still.
                   -- Samuel Butler, 1612-1680

Re: Bye, bye?

[Frank J. Lhota]

"Wes Groleau" <groleau+news@freeshell.org> wrote in message 
news:36atatF4uinkuU1@individual.net...
> Actually, I kind of like both, but they're not Ada.
> Someday I may get back to Ada at home.  But no amount
> of wishing is going to make it happen at work.

Given all the free Ada tools out there, why not use it at home? I certainly 
have.

> (Consider this a troll and ignore it.  Just thinking out loud.)
>
> -- 
> Wes Groleau
>
> He that complies against his will is of the same opinion still.
>                   -- Samuel Butler, 1612-1680 

Re: Bye, bye?

[Ludovic Brenta]

Wes Groleau writes:
> I was a substitute teacher for two years, but the bills caught up.
> I'm still keeping my promise, though.  I do Visual Basic at work,
> and perl at home.  :-)

Pray tell, what is it that you do in perl at home?

-- 
Ludovic Brenta.

Re: Bye, bye?

[Jeffrey Carter]

Wes Groleau wrote:

> Long, long, ago, I said that I would change careers
> rather than do more than 10% C++.
> 
> I was a substitute teacher for two years, but the bills
> caught up.  I'm still keeping my promise, though.
> I do Visual Basic at work, and perl at home.  :-)
> 
> Actually, I kind of like both, but they're not Ada.
> Someday I may get back to Ada at home.  But no amount
> of wishing is going to make it happen at work.

If you like perl, how can you possibly object to C++?

-- 
Jeff Carter
"You cheesy lot of second-hand electric donkey-bottom biters."
Monty Python & the Holy Grail
14

Re: Bye, bye?

[Wes Groleau]

Frank J. Lhota wrote:
> Given all the free Ada tools out there, why not use it at home? I certainly 
> have.

Dialup connection.  Upgrading the Mac developer tools to
prepare for installing GNAT will take approximately 26 hours.
We need to use our phone at least once per day.  I could buy
them on a CD, but that's $20.

But I'll do it someday.  I don't do enough home programming
to make it really urgent.

-- 
Wes Groleau

    Nobody believes a theoretical analysis -- except the guy who did it.
    Everybody believes an experimental analysis -- except the guy who 
did it.
                                  -- Unknown

Re: Bye, bye?

[Wes Groleau]

Ludovic Brenta wrote:
> Pray tell, what is it that you do in perl at home?

Very little.  But much of what I do depends on hashes
(associative arrays), which are built-in to perl.
Plus I attach the hash to a DBM file.

To do that in Ada, I'd have to not only upgrade Xcode
(not an option right now) and install Ada (easy, but
requires Xcode), but I'd also have to find or build
a hash package (not hard) and/or a DBM binding (a little
harder).

The right tool for the right job.  Ada _usually_ is,
but not always.


-- 
Wes Groleau

When all you have is a perl, everything looks like a string.

Re: Bye, bye?

[Wes Groleau]

Jeffrey Carter wrote:
> If you like perl, how can you possibly object to C++?

I didn't say I _like_ perl, I said it's not bad.

To tell the truth, the reasons for my objection to C++
(some of them) might apply to perl, too.  But I never
made the pronouncement about perl that I made about C++.
:-)

Actually, perl does have some safety features that C++
had to forego due to the baggage it inherited from C.

Sometimes, reading a perl book, I am surprised that it's
able to do something Ada-like (though not as pretty to
Ada-accustomed eyes).

Other times, I am amazed at how many versions of perl
have stubbornly refused to incorporate anything resembling
a case (switch) statement.  Though rumors are they're
giving in to that in version 6.

-- 
Wes Groleau

    After the christening of his baby brother in church, Jason sobbed
    all the way home in the back seat of the car.  His father asked him
    three times what was wrong.  Finally, the boy replied, "That preacher
    said he wanted us brought up in a Christian home, and I wanted to
    stay with you guys."

Re: Bye, bye?

[Wes Groleau]

Wes Groleau wrote:
> Ludovic Brenta wrote:
> 
>> Pray tell, what is it that you do in perl at home?
> 
> Very little.  But much of what I do ....

Also, I'm working in UTF-8, which perl handles
as easily as ASCII.

-- 
Wes Groleau

A pessimist says the glass is half empty.

An optimist says the glass is half full.

An engineer says somebody made the glass
        twice as big as it needed to be.

Re: Bye, bye?

[Eric Jacoboni]

Wes Groleau <groleau+news@freeshell.org> writes:

> Sometimes, reading a perl book, I am surprised that it's
> able to do something Ada-like (though not as pretty to
> Ada-accustomed eyes).

Well, if that's the case, you will *really* love Ruby...
(<http://www.rubycentral.com/book/>)

-- 
�ric Jacoboni, n� il y a 1410850272 secondes

Re: Bye, bye?

[G. Vincent Castellano]

Wes Groleau wrote:
> Sometimes, reading a perl book, I am surprised that it's
> able to do something Ada-like (though not as pretty to
> Ada-accustomed eyes).

I remember hearing a rumour that Larry Wall seriously considered writing Perl 6
in Ada.  One of his quotes on the language:

    I remember being impressed with Ada because you could write an infinite
    loop without a faked up condition. The idea being that in Ada the typical
    infinite loop would normally be terminated by detonation.

--gvc

Re: Bye, bye?

[Martin Krischik]

G. Vincent Castellano wrote:

> Wes Groleau wrote:
>> Sometimes, reading a perl book, I am surprised that it's
>> able to do something Ada-like (though not as pretty to
>> Ada-accustomed eyes).
> 
> I remember hearing a rumour that Larry Wall seriously considered writing
> Perl 6
> in Ada.  One of his quotes on the language:
> 
>     I remember being impressed with Ada because you could write an
>     infinite loop without a faked up condition. The idea being that in Ada
>     the typical infinite loop would normally be terminated by detonation.

Maybe he found out how to do it in C/C++:

for (;;)
  {
  }

Martin

-- 
mailto://krischik@users.sourceforge.net
http://www.ada.krischik.com

Re: Bye, bye?

[Jeffrey Carter]

Wes Groleau wrote:

> I didn't say I _like_ perl, I said it's not bad.

IIRC, you said you "kinda like" perl.

-- 
Jeff Carter
"Whatever it is, I'm against it."
Horse Feathers
46

Re: Bye, bye?

[James E. Hopper]

Wes,

well if you update to 10.4 then the dev tools are on the cd. 

jim


In article <36dn2iF51a47qU1@individual.net>, Wes Groleau
<groleau+news@freeshell.org> wrote:

> Frank J. Lhota wrote:
> > Dialup connection.  Upgrading the Mac developer tools to
> prepare for installing GNAT will take approximately 26 hours.
> We need to use our phone at least once per day.  I could buy
> them on a CD, but that's $20.
>

Re: Bye, bye?

[Wes Groleau]

James E. Hopper wrote:
> well if you update to 10.4 then the dev tools are on the cd. 

As the earlier version was when I got 10.3

Like I said, I'll get it someday.  Pay off a few bills
and then go broadband.  Or save up for the $20 CD.

Not like I have any time to use it....

-- 
Wes Groleau

    Measure with a micrometer, mark with chalk, and cut with an axe.

Re: Bye, bye?

[Wes Groleau]

Jeffrey Carter wrote:
> Wes Groleau wrote:
> 
>> I didn't say I _like_ perl, I said it's not bad.
> 
> 
> IIRC, you said you "kinda like" perl.
> 


-- 
Wes Groleau
http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~wgroleau/Wes

Re: Bye, bye?

[Wes Groleau]

Jeffrey Carter wrote:
> Wes Groleau wrote:
> 
>> I didn't say I _like_ perl, I said it's not bad.
> 
> IIRC, you said you "kinda like" perl.

Did I?  Oh, well, what can I say, I'm getting
old-timer's disease.  I also said it was a troll
that should be ignored.  :-)

-- 
Wes Groleau

    A UNIX signature isn't a return address, it's the ASCII equivalent
    of a black velvet clown painting.  It's a rectangle of carets
    surrounding a quote from a literary giant of weeniedom like
    Heinlein or Dr. Who.
                                 -- Chris Maeda

    Ha, ha, Dr. ..... Who's Chris Maeda?
                                 -- Wes Groleau

Re: Bye, bye?

[tmoran]

> >     infinite loop without a faked up condition. The idea being that in Ada
> >     the typical infinite loop would normally be terminated by detonation.
>
> Maybe he found out how to do it in C/C++:
>
> for (;;)
>   {
>   }
  They aren't the same.  Within the C language, that program's single
task would indeed only be terminated by detonation.  But an Ada program
could well have other tasks doing useful things at the same time as
the one task was in an infinite loop.

Re: Bye, bye?

[Martin Krischik]

tmoran@acm.org wrote:

>> >     infinite loop without a faked up condition. The idea being that in
>> >     Ada the typical infinite loop would normally be terminated by
>> >     detonation.
>>
>> Maybe he found out how to do it in C/C++:
>>
>> for (;;)
>>   {

...

>>   }
>   They aren't the same.  Within the C language, that program's single
> task would indeed only be terminated by detonation.  But an Ada program
> could well have other tasks doing useful things at the same time as
> the one task was in an infinite loop.

Well, I had the three ... missing indication that indeed something usefull
is happening inside the inifintive loop. Apart from that - you are right.

But it is a nice examample for readability:

loop
   ...
end loop;

vs.

for (;;)
  {
  ...
  }

C/C++ 10 characters of with 6 special characters - Ada 12 characters of with
only 1 special character. And the (;;) beeing specialy obscure.

Martin

-- 
mailto://krischik@users.sourceforge.net
http://www.ada.krischik.com

Re: Bye, bye?

[Simon Wright]

Martin Krischik <martin@krischik.com> writes:

> for (;;)

Reading this in GNUS I see

  f o r  ( ; smiley

-- 
Simon Wright                               100% Ada, no bugs.

Re: Bye, bye?

[Pascal Obry]

Simon Wright <simon@pushface.org> writes:

> Reading this in GNUS I see
> 
>   f o r  ( ; smiley

Proof that C/C++ are fun languages :)

Pascal.

-- 

--|------------------------------------------------------
--| Pascal Obry                           Team-Ada Member
--| 45, rue Gabriel Peri - 78114 Magny Les Hameaux FRANCE
--|------------------------------------------------------
--|              http://www.obry.org
--| "The best way to travel is by means of imagination"
--|
--| gpg --keyserver wwwkeys.pgp.net --recv-key C1082595

Re: Bye, bye?

[mheaney]

Wes Groleau wrote:
>
> But much of what I do depends on hashes
> (associative arrays), which are built-in to perl.
> Plus I attach the hash to a DBM file.
>
> To do that in Ada, I'd have to not only upgrade Xcode
> (not an option right now) and install Ada (easy, but
> requires Xcode), but I'd also have to find or build
> a hash package (not hard) and/or a DBM binding (a little
> harder).


Associative arrays will be included in the next version of Ada, as part
of the standard container library:

ada.containers.hashed_maps
ada.containers.indefinite_hashed_maps

There will also be an ordered version (which does the same thing as the
hashed version, but with a different time complexity; it's also a bit
simpler to instantiate):

ada.containers.ordered_maps
ada.containers.indefinite_ordered_maps

There are also hashed and ordered sets (for use when you don't need a
separate key and element).

You can get a reference implementation in the ai302 subdirectory at the
charles.tigris.org website.

Look for the files named a-c*.ad[sb] .

-Matt

Re: Bye, bye?

[Paul Colin Gloster]

In article <36dnnkF52miv2U1@individual.net>, Wes Groleau wrote:
"[..]

Actually, perl does have some safety features that C++
had to forego due to the baggage it inherited from C.

[..]"

You make it sound like Verilog. Good to read some posts of yours after all 
this time.