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From: "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de>
Subject: Re: Java exception model. Was: Re: Ada Quality and Style book discussion ("_Type" suffix)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 14:18:43 +0100
Date: 2005-11-18T14:18:43+01:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <y29sgrogn8qm.1i463qwbkg5aa.dlg@40tude.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: ycjff.2266$ZA3.459984@monger.newsread.com

On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 11:48:46 GMT, Peter C. Chapin wrote:

> Brian May wrote:
> 
>> With respect to his complaint on exception handling - I like the Java
>> model where every exception that can be raised by a function has to be
>> declared - that way you don't have to check for exceptions that don't
>> currently occur - and if the specifications change, the compiler can
>> generate an error to let you know that you may not have considered an
>> exception.
> 
> The problem with Java's model is that it forces the programmer to deal 
> in some way with exceptions that semantically can't happen. Consider
> 
> procedure Outer is
> begin
>    if Some_Complicated_Check then
>      Inner;
>    end if;
> end Outer;
> 
> Suppose procedure Inner raises an exception under certain conditions yet 
> can't do so in the code above because Inner is only executed when the 
> complicated check succeeds. Assume that under those particular 
> conditions, it will never fail. The Java exception model would require 
> us to either handle an exception that will never occur, or declare that 
> Outer might raise an exception that we know it will never raise. Such a 
> declaration will force Outer's callers to also do something about this 
> impossible exception as well, etc, and so forth.

I can't tell for Java, but let consider Ada adopting a contract model of
exceptions. Your reasoning above is flawed. If the designer of Outer knows
that the exception X cannot propagate out of it then it should be:

procedure Outer is
begin
   if Some_Complicated_Check then
      begin
         Inner;
      exception
         when X => -- This is not a state, it is a bug
            raise Program_Error;
      end if;
   end if;
end Outer;

> The example above is simplistic and contrived but it's my belief that in 
> real programs this sort of issue comes up a lot.

I think it is a software design issue. When exceptions and exceptional
states are considered as *valid* states, then there cannot be any good
argument against contract model of exceptions. They belong to a
*functional* part of the program. What is left, are the arguments like - it
is too difficult to implement; there would be too big overhead; I don't
know how to do it right - not much impressive. Alternatively you can say,
OK, exceptions are exclusively for software bugs. But this is also a quite
weak position, because if they are bugs, then why would you like to handle
them? Bugs to be debugged!

-- 
Regards,
Dmitry A. Kazakov
http://www.dmitry-kazakov.de



  reply	other threads:[~2005-11-18 13:18 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 112+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2005-11-15 16:03 Request for comments on simple Ada program Maciej Sobczak
2005-11-15 17:43 ` Samuel Tardieu
2005-11-15 17:47   ` Samuel Tardieu
2005-11-15 21:28   ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2005-11-15 21:53     ` Samuel Tardieu
2005-11-16  9:10       ` Anders Wirzenius
2005-11-15 21:55     ` Samuel Tardieu
2005-11-16  9:03     ` Niklas Holsti
2005-11-16 14:21       ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2005-11-16 17:08         ` Niklas Holsti
2005-11-16  7:11   ` Brian May
2005-11-15 18:29 ` jimmaureenrogers
2005-11-15 19:33   ` tmoran
2005-11-16 14:46     ` jimmaureenrogers
2005-11-16 18:05       ` Martin Dowie
2005-11-16 19:54       ` tmoran
2005-11-15 18:52 ` Martin Krischik
2005-11-15 19:33 ` tmoran
2005-11-16  3:10   ` Ada Quality and Style book discussion Anonymous Coward
2005-11-16  4:09     ` tmoran
2005-11-16  5:49     ` Simon Wright
2005-11-16  7:03       ` Martin Dowie
2005-11-17  4:49         ` Anonymous Coward
2005-11-17  6:48           ` Martin Dowie
2005-11-17 11:45           ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-11-17 12:37             ` Stephen Leake
2005-11-17 13:24               ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-11-17 23:15                 ` Stephen Leake
2005-11-19 20:28                   ` Don't use the "use" clause Anonymous Coward
2005-11-19 20:35                     ` Ed Falis
2005-11-21 17:36                       ` David Emery
2005-11-21 19:20                         ` Ed Falis
2005-11-21 22:21                           ` David Trudgett
2005-11-21 22:51                             ` Ed Falis
2005-11-22  0:15                           ` Anonymous Coward
2005-11-23  4:09                             ` Ed Falis
2005-11-23 19:26                               ` tmoran
2005-11-19 21:48                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2005-11-19 22:33                       ` Simon Wright
2005-11-19 23:40                       ` Anonymous Coward
2005-11-20 11:07                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2005-11-20 19:50                       ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2005-11-20  2:53                     ` Stephen Leake
2005-11-20  3:57                       ` Anonymous Coward
2005-11-20 10:44                     ` Pascal Obry
2005-11-20 19:48                     ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2005-11-22  5:11                     ` greptree lou
2005-11-22  6:08                       ` greptree Simon Wright
2005-11-25  1:00                       ` greptree Björn Persson
2006-01-23 12:51                     ` Don't use the "use" clause adaworks
2006-01-23 20:21                       ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2006-01-24  2:27                         ` Stephen Leake
2006-01-24  3:32                           ` Ed Falis
2006-01-24  4:44                           ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2006-01-24 22:53                             ` Stephen Leake
2006-01-24  8:54                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2006-01-24  9:48                             ` Martin Dowie
2006-01-24 10:28                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2006-01-24 13:30                                 ` brian.b.mcguinness
2006-01-24 20:03                                   ` Simon Wright
2006-01-24 23:00                                   ` Stephen Leake
2006-01-25  4:58                                     ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2006-01-24 23:38                                 ` Randy Brukardt
2006-01-25 14:49                                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2006-01-25 21:46                                     ` Randy Brukardt
2006-01-26  9:14                                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2006-01-27  1:04                                         ` Randy Brukardt
2006-01-27 15:23                                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2006-01-27 16:35                                             ` Georg Bauhaus
2006-01-27 23:09                                               ` Randy Brukardt
2006-01-27 23:18                                             ` Randy Brukardt
2006-01-28 10:41                                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2006-01-24 22:55                             ` Stephen Leake
2006-01-24  9:42                           ` Martin Dowie
2006-01-24 23:02                             ` Stephen Leake
2006-01-25  9:14                               ` Martin Dowie
2006-01-25 11:01                             ` Peter Amey
2006-01-25 11:06                               ` Martin Dowie
2006-01-25 20:07                               ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2006-01-31  2:24                               ` Stephen Leake
2006-02-09  5:13                       ` Anonymous Coward
2005-11-17 20:55           ` Ada Quality and Style book discussion Simon Wright
2005-11-18  0:44             ` Larry Kilgallen
2005-11-19 20:56             ` Anonymous Coward
2005-11-19 22:41               ` Simon Wright
2005-11-20  0:03                 ` Anonymous Coward
2005-11-17  4:23       ` Ada Quality and Style book discussion ("_Type" suffix) Anonymous Coward
2005-11-17 10:51         ` Martin Dowie
2005-11-19 21:52           ` Anonymous Coward
2005-11-20 15:50             ` Martin Dowie
2005-11-17 11:34         ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-11-17 11:53           ` Martin Dowie
2005-11-17 13:26             ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-11-17 12:26           ` Brian May
2005-11-17 13:45             ` Martin Dowie
2005-11-17 14:22               ` Marc A. Criley
2005-11-17 14:50                 ` Martin Dowie
2005-11-18  3:04                 ` Brian May
2005-11-18  9:23                   ` Maciej Sobczak
2005-11-18 14:00                     ` Marc A. Criley
2005-11-18 11:48                   ` Java exception model. Was: " Peter C. Chapin
2005-11-18 13:18                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov [this message]
2005-11-19 18:06                       ` Peter C. Chapin
2005-11-19 18:58                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2005-11-21 22:38                           ` Brian May
2005-11-21 23:27                           ` Brian May
2005-11-18 22:33                   ` Simon Wright
2005-11-17 14:03             ` Hyman Rosen
2005-11-20 19:41         ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2005-11-20 20:43           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2005-11-21  0:00             ` Simon Wright
2005-11-16 13:51     ` Ada Quality and Style book discussion Marc A. Criley
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