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From: "Warren W. Gay VE3WWG" <ve3wwg@cogeco.ca>
Subject: Re: Standard Library Interest?
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:52:07 -0400
Date: 2003-10-16T12:52:07-04:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <y0Ajb.8672$cT6.420822@news20.bellglobal.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <3F8E9531.9040209@noplace.com>

Marin David Condic wrote:

> Right. I can see that and anticipat that objection on the part of the 
> vendors. But at the end of the day, you are not going to get something 
> for nothing. We could jam a whole gigantic library into the standard and 
> they'd have to support it or admit they don't have a "Full" Ada 
> compiler. (I've already observed why we *don't* want it in the standard, 
> but assume for a minute it was there in order to *force* the vendors 
> into providing it.) They could each pay the cost of building that huge 
> library and each pay the cost of supporting that library and each suffer 
> individually.
> 
> ***OR***
> 
> The vendors could work as a team on this and share the expense. Form up 
> some sort of organization to take care of the library and support it. It 
> comes from a single source and they could relatively easily point any 
> customer support issues to that source. Its even conceivable that the 
> organization they start could become self-sustaining - generating 
> revenue out of their own support contracts or software sales or 
> royalties or whatever else they might provide.
> 
> Here's the thing: Nobody is going to ge a Conventional Ada Library free. 
> *Someone* is going to bear the cost of producing it and maintaining it. 
> Even if that "Someone" is a bunch of volunteers. If you want to have 
> reasonable control over the library and get it done on a schedule and 
> have it meet various expectations, that's going to cost something. 
> However, that doesn't mean the cost has to be huge or back-breaking for 
> each vendor. Some sort of cooperative effort and creative licensing 
> might enable it to get constructed and supported without having to incur 
> huge costs.
> 
> MDC

And at the end of the fiscal year, the cost will be passed back
to you and me. After all, nobody's just going to eat the charges
"just because". So I think that is a given.

The point is how to get it all rolling. IMO, which is obviously
a bit different than yours, you'll not get things rolling waiting
for the vendor to initiate this effort. Especially if it involves
in multiple vendors working together. Not impossible mind you, just
unlikely. That is like trying to reach consensus in a meeting
with 15 people in it, vs a small group of three.
-- 
Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
http://home.cogeco.ca/~ve3wwg




  reply	other threads:[~2003-10-16 16:52 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 285+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2003-10-05  0:09 Standard Library Interest? chris
2003-10-05  1:38 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-05 11:44   ` chris
2003-10-05 15:16   ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-05 16:40     ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-05 19:22     ` Martin Dowie
2003-10-06 13:12       ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-06 17:09         ` Martin Dowie
2003-10-06 23:34           ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-07  0:23             ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-07 12:42               ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-07 13:17                 ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-07 17:17                   ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-07 17:42                     ` Larry Hazel
2003-10-07 19:36                       ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-07 20:31                         ` Stephen Leake
2003-10-07 21:56                           ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-08  1:11                             ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-08 16:07                               ` Martin Krischik
2003-10-10  4:38                                 ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-10 14:37                                   ` Stephen Leake
2003-10-10 16:24                                     ` Martin Dowie
2003-10-11 14:16                                       ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-12  1:30                                         ` Martin Dowie
2003-10-12  2:46                                           ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-11 14:07                                     ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-14 14:20                                       ` Stephen Leake
2003-10-14 19:14                                         ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-14 19:27                                           ` Stephen Leake
2003-10-15 12:27                                             ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-15 12:42                                               ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-10 16:46                                   ` Martin Krischik
2003-10-10 18:00                                     ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-12 11:19                                       ` Martin Krischik
2003-10-12 14:48                                         ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-11 14:22                                     ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-09 10:50                               ` Ching Bon Lam
2003-10-09 12:11                                 ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-09 17:16                                   ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-09 18:30                                     ` tmoran
2003-10-10  1:29                                   ` Frank
2003-10-10  8:19                                     ` chris
2003-10-10  2:53                                   ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-08 15:55                             ` Stephen Leake
2003-10-08 16:49                               ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-08 17:18                               ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-10  2:59                                 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-10-08 19:54                             ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-08 21:40                               ` Stephen Leake
2003-10-09 12:28                               ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-09 15:18                                 ` Stefan Lucks
2003-10-09 16:10                                   ` Stephen Leake
2003-10-09 16:57                                     ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-10  4:58                                     ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-10  9:28                                     ` Stefan Lucks
2003-10-10 14:59                                       ` Stephen Leake
2003-10-10 16:48                                         ` Ed Falis
2003-10-10 16:29                                       ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-11  7:01                                         ` Simon Wright
2003-10-10 15:51                                     ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-10 17:04                                       ` Stephen Leake
2003-10-10  3:02                                 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-10  5:17                                   ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-10 16:38                                     ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-11 14:35                                       ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-15 16:24                                         ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-15 17:57                                           ` Ed Falis
2003-10-15 20:45                                             ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-15 20:44                                           ` Mark A. Biggar
2003-10-16 12:55                                             ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-16 16:52                                               ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG [this message]
2003-10-16 17:53                                                 ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-17 13:25                                                   ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-18 13:50                                                     ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-21 17:14                                                       ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-22 13:04                                                         ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-22 16:46                                                           ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-22 17:13                                                             ` Ed Falis
2003-10-23  5:23                                                               ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-23 13:55                                                                 ` Ed Falis
2003-10-23  5:21                                                             ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-27 17:37                                                               ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-28  1:53                                                                 ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-16 12:38                                           ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-16 17:16                                             ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-16 18:02                                               ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-16 18:23                                                 ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-17  0:36                                                 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-17  1:24                                                   ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-17  1:40                                                   ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-17  2:34                                                     ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-17 12:45                                                       ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-16 18:04                                               ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-17 20:09                                                 ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2003-10-20 17:40                                                   ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-21 20:55                                                     ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-21 22:46                                                     ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-21 21:02                                                 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-10 18:44                                     ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-11 14:42                                       ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-11 15:10                                         ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-11 17:58                                           ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-12  1:01                                             ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-12  0:51                                           ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-12  1:17                                             ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-12  2:10                                               ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-12  5:14                                                 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-12 13:39                                                   ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-12  1:20                                             ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-12  2:32                                               ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-12 11:14                                                 ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-16 13:18                                                   ` aleistad
2003-10-07 22:12                           ` tmoran
2003-10-07 22:37                           ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2003-10-08 16:03                           ` Martin Krischik
2003-10-09 13:28                           ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2003-10-28 11:25                         ` Marius Amado Alves
2003-10-28 12:52                           ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-28 13:28                             ` Marius Amado Alves
2003-10-28 23:20                               ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-28 13:21                           ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-28 16:21                           ` Standard Library Interest? (The Big Player ACT) Stephane Richard
2003-10-28 23:37                             ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-29  1:12                               ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-29 14:35                               ` Marc A. Criley
2003-10-29 23:10                                 ` tmoran
2003-10-29 23:34                                 ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-31 14:42                                   ` Georg Bauhaus
2003-11-01  3:05                                     ` Marin David Condic
2003-11-01  3:50                                       ` Stephane Richard
2003-11-01 13:20                                         ` Marin David Condic
2003-11-02 16:41                                       ` Georg Bauhaus
2003-11-02 19:25                                         ` Marin David Condic
2003-11-01  7:20                                     ` Simon Wright
2003-11-02 17:04                                       ` Georg Bauhaus
2003-11-02 15:09                             ` Standard Library Interest? (The Big Player IRVINE) Stephane Richard
2003-11-02 16:18                               ` Marius Amado Alves
2003-11-02 16:35                                 ` Stephane Richard
2003-11-02 22:41                               ` Marin David Condic
2003-11-03  1:07                                 ` Standard Library Interest? Robert I. Eachus
2003-11-03  1:27                                   ` Stephane Richard
2003-11-03 12:52                                     ` Marin David Condic
2003-11-03  3:58                                   ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2003-11-03  6:28                                     ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-11-03 12:11                                       ` Jeff C,
2003-11-03 17:07                                         ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-11-04 18:07                                       ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2003-11-03  7:54                                     ` Mark A. Biggar
2003-11-03 21:02                                       ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2003-11-04  1:50                                         ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-11-04 18:16                                           ` Jeffrey Carter
2003-11-06  2:07                                           ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2003-11-03 15:14                                     ` Robert Spooner
2003-11-03 15:38                                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-11-03 16:52                                       ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2003-11-03 12:36                                   ` Marin David Condic
     [not found]                         ` <1067340353.3441.18.camel@localhost.localdomain>
2003-10-28 11:30                           ` Marius Amado Alves
2003-10-08  1:07                       ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-08  1:15                         ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-08  1:32                           ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-08 15:58                           ` Stephen Leake
2003-10-08 17:24                             ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-07 18:19                     ` Martin Dowie
2003-10-07 19:29                       ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-07 20:30                         ` Martin Dowie
2003-10-08  1:15                       ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-08 21:56                         ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-08 23:56                           ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-09  0:29                             ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-10 16:47                             ` POSIX File Structure Conventions for Ada (Was: Standard Library Interest?) Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-10 17:17                               ` Ludovic Brenta
2003-10-11 16:25                                 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-09 12:42                           ` Standard Library Interest? Marin David Condic
2003-10-09 13:07                             ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-10  3:15                               ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-10  8:10                                 ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-10 12:49                                   ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-10 13:20                                     ` Jeff C,
2003-10-11 14:48                                       ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-11 15:09                                         ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-10 19:22                                   ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-11 11:30                                     ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-11 12:36                                     ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-11 17:41                                       ` sk
2003-10-11 17:43                                         ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-11 18:08                                       ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-11 18:11                                         ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-12  1:33                                         ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-12  5:16                                           ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-15 16:42                                         ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-15 16:35                                     ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-16 12:59                                       ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-17 19:54                                         ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
     [not found]                   ` <8d6b51-0u3.ln1@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
2003-10-07 23:58                     ` Stephane Richard
     [not found]                       ` <f8nc51-gv2.ln1@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
2003-10-08 12:45                         ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-08 16:00                         ` Stephen Leake
2003-10-08 17:37                           ` Stephane Richard
     [not found]                           ` <hdbf51-523.ln1@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
2003-10-09 14:24                             ` Hyman Rosen
2003-10-10 12:06                               ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-10 15:03                                 ` Stephen Leake
2003-10-05 17:41   ` Georg Bauhaus
2003-10-05 17:48     ` chris
2003-10-05 23:57     ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-07  1:44       ` Georg Bauhaus
2003-10-08 20:44         ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-09  2:05           ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2003-10-09  5:39             ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-09  9:06               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-10-05 14:49 ` Martin Krischik
2003-10-05 15:25   ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-05 15:51     ` sk
2003-10-05 18:23       ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-05 19:14         ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-06 13:15           ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-05 19:35         ` Jeffrey Carter
2003-10-06  9:46           ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-06 13:16             ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-06 14:44               ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-06 16:51               ` Martin Krischik
2003-10-06 16:48         ` Martin Krischik
2003-10-06 23:38           ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-06 16:42     ` Martin Krischik
2003-10-06 23:39       ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-05 15:02 ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-05 16:43   ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-05 18:31     ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-07  1:58       ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-07 12:48         ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-08 20:49           ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-05 17:49   ` Georg Bauhaus
2003-10-05 18:43     ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-05 23:26       ` Georg Bauhaus
2003-10-06 13:27         ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-10 16:58           ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-11  9:55             ` Martin Dowie
2003-10-15 16:51               ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-16 12:14                 ` Martin Dowie
2003-10-22 16:48                   ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-05 19:27   ` Martin Dowie
2003-10-06 13:33     ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-06 17:16       ` Martin Dowie
2003-10-06 23:45         ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-06 16:47     ` chris
2003-10-06 19:03       ` sk
2003-10-06 20:18         ` chris
2003-10-06 21:13           ` sk
2003-10-20  3:22             ` Dave Thompson
2003-10-20 10:29               ` sk
2003-10-07  0:30           ` Mark Lorenzen
2003-10-07  2:13     ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-07 22:49       ` Georg Bauhaus
2003-10-08 20:58         ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-09 12:57           ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-10  3:09             ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-06  7:02   ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-06 13:37     ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-06 14:34       ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-06 23:50         ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-07  8:55           ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-07 13:05             ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-06 19:37       ` tmoran
2003-10-06 23:57         ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-08 21:46           ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-09  8:10             ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2003-10-10  2:29               ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-09  9:20             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-10-09 13:09             ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-10 14:44               ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-11 14:57                 ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-11 18:25                   ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-12  1:49                     ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-12  3:52                       ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-06 13:50     ` (see below)
2003-10-06 15:28       ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-06 19:37         ` tmoran
2003-10-07  8:59           ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-05 23:33 ` Robert C. Leif
2003-10-06  9:02 ` Vadim Godunko
2003-10-07  0:48 ` Matthew Heaney
2003-10-07  8:56   ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-07 13:08     ` Marin David Condic
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2003-10-10 13:46 Beard, Frank Randolph CIV
2003-10-11  7:33 ` Martin Krischik
2003-10-11 15:04 ` Marin David Condic
     [not found] <mailman.191.1066918723.25614.comp.lang.ada@ada-france.org>
2003-10-23 14:26 ` Ed Falis
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