Re: True faiths ( was Re: The true faith )

[tfb@conquest.OCF.Berkeley.EDU (Thomas F. Burdick)]

Kenny Tilton <ktilton@nyc.rr.com> writes:

> Doug Hockin wrote:
> > 
[> > > is Kenny Tilton]
> > > Obviously the winner is any compiled (fast), GCed, GFing, MI dynamic
> > > language with macros. Mature, an ANSII standard and a free
> > > implementation would not hurt either. hang on...
> > 
> > Like Dylan?
> 
> Is Dylan mature, stable, ANSII standard?

I thought those were just niceties, not necessary for the language to
"win", according to you just above.

> Anyway, not enough parentheses. And I like unhygienic macros.
> 
> Dylan to me adds no value over Lisp, so why bother?

Well, sure, right now.  Since Dylan seems to have what you think it
would take for a non-mainstream language to make it into the
mainstream, if it did, that's the value it *would* offer.  I'd be
*thrilled* to be a Dylaner if there were a ton of Dylan jobs.

You seem to have changed from talking about what "the winner" needs,
to talking about what language you'd rather use.  I don't think it's a
good idea to change the definition of "win" so radically, at least
mid-thread :)

> All that said, yup, Dylan is something I would consider if Lisp did not
> exist.
> 
> Oh, damnit, I forgot. How about a MOP. Does Dylan expose the MOP so I
> can metaclass?

Yeah, it might have just fallen out of the winning category.  I agree,
a MOP is vital.

> Anyway, the big quetsion is: what is the added value over Lisp to make
> me give up Lisp.
> 
> One more thing: I love editing with parentheses-aware editors. Infix
> won't cut it.

If you had an infix language that could be turned into a sexp form,
you could probably make an editor that actually worked on its
structure in the image.  Not that I'm advocating this, I'm just sayin...

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