* [GNAT commercial USE] -- can i use GNAT to develop a closed source commercial application ? @ 2003-08-14 22:42 Marco Poggioli 2003-08-14 23:24 ` Chad R. Meiners ` (3 more replies) 0 siblings, 4 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: Marco Poggioli @ 2003-08-14 22:42 UTC (permalink / raw) Subject says all. Thanks in advance, Marco. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: [GNAT commercial USE] -- can i use GNAT to develop a closed source commercial application ? 2003-08-14 22:42 [GNAT commercial USE] -- can i use GNAT to develop a closed source commercial application ? Marco Poggioli @ 2003-08-14 23:24 ` Chad R. Meiners 2003-08-15 3:42 ` Steve ` (2 subsequent siblings) 3 siblings, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: Chad R. Meiners @ 2003-08-14 23:24 UTC (permalink / raw) I believe so. However depending on how critical your application is, you might consider buying support for the compiler. "Marco Poggioli" <marco.poggioli@terrazzi.com> wrote in message news:r24ojvgrhbeg6k39491cktebc6k3p9bvj6@4ax.com... > > > Subject says all. > > Thanks in advance, > > Marco. > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: [GNAT commercial USE] -- can i use GNAT to develop a closed source commercial application ? 2003-08-14 22:42 [GNAT commercial USE] -- can i use GNAT to develop a closed source commercial application ? Marco Poggioli 2003-08-14 23:24 ` Chad R. Meiners @ 2003-08-15 3:42 ` Steve 2003-08-15 8:28 ` Marco Poggioli 2003-08-15 13:42 ` Steve 2003-08-15 7:30 ` Erlo Haugen 2003-08-15 8:47 ` Pascal Obry 3 siblings, 2 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: Steve @ 2003-08-15 3:42 UTC (permalink / raw) So long as your closed source commercial compiler does not include elements of the GNAT compiler or compilation tools. The libraries included with GNAT are covered by the GMGPL (Gnat modified GPL) which specically permits you to link your code against the libraries and distribute the result. Disclaimer: The above describes my understanding of the licensing associated with GNAT. Don't take my word for it. I am not a lawyer. Read the GPL (which covers GNAT) and the GMGPL, which you'll find in the headers of the GNAT library modules. If you have deep enough pockets to afford a support contract from ACT, please purchase one. You will not regret it. The last time I checked, which was quite some time ago, it was $12K for 10 developer seats for a year. A bargain for the level of support they provide. Steve (The Duck) "Marco Poggioli" <marco.poggioli@terrazzi.com> wrote in message news:r24ojvgrhbeg6k39491cktebc6k3p9bvj6@4ax.com... > > > Subject says all. > > Thanks in advance, > > Marco. > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: [GNAT commercial USE] -- can i use GNAT to develop a closed source commercial application ? 2003-08-15 3:42 ` Steve @ 2003-08-15 8:28 ` Marco Poggioli 2003-08-15 8:44 ` Preben Randhol 2003-08-15 13:40 ` Steve 2003-08-15 13:42 ` Steve 1 sibling, 2 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: Marco Poggioli @ 2003-08-15 8:28 UTC (permalink / raw) On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 03:42:23 GMT, "Steve" <nospam_steved94@comcast.net> wrote: I thank You and the other nice guys for the prompt answer. One last question comes in mind: is the free GNAT stable enough? Can I trust it like if it were gcc C++ ? I'm asking because i'm a single developer that intends to roll out his own application and to market it directly to customers, with well defined budget and time limits. I plan to choose Ada over C++ for clarity and maintanability, and over Java because the latter is proprietary and easily reverse-engeneered. Thanks, Marco. >So long as your closed source commercial compiler does not include elements >of the GNAT compiler or compilation tools. > >The libraries included with GNAT are covered by the GMGPL (Gnat modified >GPL) which specically permits you to link your code against the libraries >and distribute the result. > >Disclaimer: The above describes my understanding of the licensing associated >with GNAT. Don't take my word for it. I am not a lawyer. Read the GPL >(which covers GNAT) and the GMGPL, which you'll find in the headers of the >GNAT library modules. > >If you have deep enough pockets to afford a support contract from ACT, >please purchase one. You will not regret it. The last time I checked, >which was quite some time ago, it was $12K for 10 developer seats for a >year. A bargain for the level of support they provide. > >Steve >(The Duck) > >"Marco Poggioli" <marco.poggioli@terrazzi.com> wrote in message >news:r24ojvgrhbeg6k39491cktebc6k3p9bvj6@4ax.com... >> >> >> Subject says all. >> >> Thanks in advance, >> >> Marco. >> >> > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: [GNAT commercial USE] -- can i use GNAT to develop a closed source commercial application ? 2003-08-15 8:28 ` Marco Poggioli @ 2003-08-15 8:44 ` Preben Randhol 2003-08-15 12:02 ` Marco Poggioli (a fake exposed name) 2003-08-15 13:40 ` Steve 1 sibling, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread From: Preben Randhol @ 2003-08-15 8:44 UTC (permalink / raw) Marco Poggioli wrote: > I thank You and the other nice guys for the prompt answer. > > One last question comes in mind: is the free GNAT stable enough? Yes get teh Gnat 3.15p (not the Gnat from gcc 3.x as the whoel gcc 3.x is unstable at the moment) > Can I trust it like if it were gcc C++ ? Depends what you mean by this. Which version etc... Personally I would trust GNAT more than gcc C++. Besides the Ada language help catch much more bugs than the C++ compiler. > I'm asking because i'm a single developer that intends to roll out > his own application and to market it directly to customers, with well > defined budget and time limits. Don't see why you cannot use Ada (and GNAT). -- �I think fish is nice, but then I think that rain is wet. So who am I to judge.� - The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy (radioplay) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: [GNAT commercial USE] -- can i use GNAT to develop a closed source commercial application ? 2003-08-15 8:44 ` Preben Randhol @ 2003-08-15 12:02 ` Marco Poggioli (a fake exposed name) 0 siblings, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: Marco Poggioli (a fake exposed name) @ 2003-08-15 12:02 UTC (permalink / raw) On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 08:44:57 +0000 (UTC), Preben Randhol <randhol+abuse@pvv.org> wrote: >> >> One last question comes in mind: is the free GNAT stable enough? > >> Can I trust it like if it were gcc C++ ? > >Depends what you mean by this. Which version etc... Personally I would >trust GNAT more than gcc C++. Besides the Ada language help catch much >more bugs than the C++ compiler. :-) > >Don't see why you cannot use Ada (and GNAT). Ok. Point taken. count one more on the Ada Bandwagon. Thanks all. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: [GNAT commercial USE] -- can i use GNAT to develop a closed source commercial application ? 2003-08-15 8:28 ` Marco Poggioli 2003-08-15 8:44 ` Preben Randhol @ 2003-08-15 13:40 ` Steve 1 sibling, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: Steve @ 2003-08-15 13:40 UTC (permalink / raw) Yes. GNAT is stable enough. I believe you can trust it more than gcc C++. Is it perfect? No. Neither is gcc C++. Steve (The Duck) "Marco Poggioli" <marco.poggioli@terrazzi.com> wrote in message news:nv5pjvgc0m3ne47r45cs2uvm8acuts6gee@4ax.com... > On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 03:42:23 GMT, "Steve" > <nospam_steved94@comcast.net> wrote: > > > I thank You and the other nice guys for the prompt answer. > > One last question comes in mind: is the free GNAT stable enough? > Can I trust it like if it were gcc C++ ? > > I'm asking because i'm a single developer > that intends to roll out his own application and to > market it directly to customers, with well defined budget and time > limits. > > I plan to choose Ada over C++ for clarity and maintanability, > and over Java because the latter is proprietary and easily > reverse-engeneered. > > > Thanks, > > > Marco. > > > > > > >So long as your closed source commercial compiler does not include elements > >of the GNAT compiler or compilation tools. > > > >The libraries included with GNAT are covered by the GMGPL (Gnat modified > >GPL) which specically permits you to link your code against the libraries > >and distribute the result. > > > >Disclaimer: The above describes my understanding of the licensing associated > >with GNAT. Don't take my word for it. I am not a lawyer. Read the GPL > >(which covers GNAT) and the GMGPL, which you'll find in the headers of the > >GNAT library modules. > > > >If you have deep enough pockets to afford a support contract from ACT, > >please purchase one. You will not regret it. The last time I checked, > >which was quite some time ago, it was $12K for 10 developer seats for a > >year. A bargain for the level of support they provide. > > > >Steve > >(The Duck) > > > >"Marco Poggioli" <marco.poggioli@terrazzi.com> wrote in message > >news:r24ojvgrhbeg6k39491cktebc6k3p9bvj6@4ax.com... > >> > >> > >> Subject says all. > >> > >> Thanks in advance, > >> > >> Marco. > >> > >> > > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: [GNAT commercial USE] -- can i use GNAT to develop a closed source commercial application ? 2003-08-15 3:42 ` Steve 2003-08-15 8:28 ` Marco Poggioli @ 2003-08-15 13:42 ` Steve 1 sibling, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: Steve @ 2003-08-15 13:42 UTC (permalink / raw) Oops! That should have read: So long as your closed source commercial application... But I think you got the message. Steve (The Duck) "Steve" <nospam_steved94@comcast.net> wrote in message news:hEY_a.148118$uu5.22097@sccrnsc04... > So long as your closed source commercial compiler does not include lements > of the GNAT compiler or compilation tools. > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: [GNAT commercial USE] -- can i use GNAT to develop a closed source commercial application ? 2003-08-14 22:42 [GNAT commercial USE] -- can i use GNAT to develop a closed source commercial application ? Marco Poggioli 2003-08-14 23:24 ` Chad R. Meiners 2003-08-15 3:42 ` Steve @ 2003-08-15 7:30 ` Erlo Haugen 2003-08-15 8:38 ` Preben Randhol 2003-08-15 19:40 ` Simon Wright 2003-08-15 8:47 ` Pascal Obry 3 siblings, 2 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: Erlo Haugen @ 2003-08-15 7:30 UTC (permalink / raw) On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 22:42:54 GMT Marco Poggioli <marco.poggioli@terrazzi.com> wrote: > > > Subject says all. > > Thanks in advance, > > Marco. > > The GNAT compiler is not certified, afaik. Just bear that in mind if your project requieres using Ada. Erlo -- Remove the underscores ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: [GNAT commercial USE] -- can i use GNAT to develop a closed source commercial application ? 2003-08-15 7:30 ` Erlo Haugen @ 2003-08-15 8:38 ` Preben Randhol 2003-08-15 19:40 ` Simon Wright 1 sibling, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: Preben Randhol @ 2003-08-15 8:38 UTC (permalink / raw) Erlo Haugen wrote: > > The GNAT compiler is not certified, afaik. Which Gnat compiler are you talking about? -- �I think fish is nice, but then I think that rain is wet. So who am I to judge.� - The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy (radioplay) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: [GNAT commercial USE] -- can i use GNAT to develop a closed source commercial application ? 2003-08-15 7:30 ` Erlo Haugen 2003-08-15 8:38 ` Preben Randhol @ 2003-08-15 19:40 ` Simon Wright 2003-08-16 3:18 ` Robert I. Eachus 1 sibling, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread From: Simon Wright @ 2003-08-15 19:40 UTC (permalink / raw) Erlo Haugen <_elh_@_terma_._com_> writes: > The GNAT compiler is not certified, afaik. > Just bear that in mind if your project requieres using Ada. Nor would GCC's C, C++ compilers be, of course. I expect you could get GNAT certified, but you would have to pay ACT quite a bit of money. (The ACATS suite is available for download but it is not, AIUI, easy to use). Last time I asked, many Ada compilers' certificates had run out (I may have misunderstood this). But in any case, the affordable Ada compilers (public GNAT, Aonix, RR .. any others?) are all going to do an excellent job for you. Our viewpoint for our supported GNAT compilers is generally that we believe the compilers could be validated if our customer wanted to pay an extra -whatever- over the contract cost, but neither he nor we will gain from it in practice. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: [GNAT commercial USE] -- can i use GNAT to develop a closed source commercial application ? 2003-08-15 19:40 ` Simon Wright @ 2003-08-16 3:18 ` Robert I. Eachus 2003-08-17 11:35 ` Simon Wright 0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread From: Robert I. Eachus @ 2003-08-16 3:18 UTC (permalink / raw) Simon Wright wrote: > Nor would GCC's C, C++ compilers be, of course. > > I expect you could get GNAT certified, but you would have to pay ACT > quite a bit of money. (The ACATS suite is available for download but > it is not, AIUI, easy to use). > > Last time I asked, many Ada compilers' certificates had run out (I may > have misunderstood this). > > But in any case, the affordable Ada compilers (public GNAT, Aonix, RR > .. any others?) are all going to do an excellent job for you. > > Our viewpoint for our supported GNAT compilers is generally that we > believe the compilers could be validated if our customer wanted to pay > an extra -whatever- over the contract cost, but neither he nor we will > gain from it in practice. It doesn't cost that much to get a validated version of GNAT. It also doesn't cost much to run the ACVC tests against your environment. The last time I worked on a project where doing both of those was considered good practice, the result was interesting. The full validation report had 18 tests marked as non-applicable for one reason or another, plus the usual on number of digits in float types. Fourteen of those tests passed in our environment, and four printed failed. The first three were oh, yeah, no brainers, and the fourth resulted in spending more time than running the tests. I don't want to go into why we spent so much time on the analysis. I'll just say that the system had cryptographic components, and the deviation from the RM, while it was perfectly justifiable in terms of compiler validation, meant we had to redo part of our analysis of the code partitioning. So in one sense it was all very worthwhile, while in another, it was a lot of makework. (In the end, no code was changed as a result.) -- Robert I. Eachus "As far as I'm concerned, war always means failure." -- Jacques Chirac, President of France "As far as France is concerned, you're right." -- Rush Limbaugh ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: [GNAT commercial USE] -- can i use GNAT to develop a closed source commercial application ? 2003-08-16 3:18 ` Robert I. Eachus @ 2003-08-17 11:35 ` Simon Wright 0 siblings, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: Simon Wright @ 2003-08-17 11:35 UTC (permalink / raw) "Robert I. Eachus" <rieachus@attbi.com> writes: > Simon Wright wrote: > > > Nor would GCC's C, C++ compilers be, of course. > > I expect you could get GNAT certified, but you would have to pay ACT > > quite a bit of money. > It doesn't cost that much to get a validated version of GNAT. Come to think, the quote was for an early run of the certification process -- it's cheaper if you can agree to defer to a convenient moment, I guess, perfectly reasonable. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: [GNAT commercial USE] -- can i use GNAT to develop a closed source commercial application ? 2003-08-14 22:42 [GNAT commercial USE] -- can i use GNAT to develop a closed source commercial application ? Marco Poggioli ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 2003-08-15 7:30 ` Erlo Haugen @ 2003-08-15 8:47 ` Pascal Obry 2003-08-15 23:24 ` Marco Poggioli (a fake exposed name) 3 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread From: Pascal Obry @ 2003-08-15 8:47 UTC (permalink / raw) Marco Poggioli <marco.poggioli@terrazzi.com> writes: > Subject says all. Of course and lot of peoples are doing just that. For a more formal answer consider sending a message to ACT (sales@gnat.com). Pascal. -- --|------------------------------------------------------ --| Pascal Obry Team-Ada Member --| 45, rue Gabriel Peri - 78114 Magny Les Hameaux FRANCE --|------------------------------------------------------ --| http://perso.wanadoo.fr/pascal.obry --| "The best way to travel is by means of imagination" --| --| gpg --keyserver wwwkeys.pgp.net --recv-key C1082595 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: [GNAT commercial USE] -- can i use GNAT to develop a closed source commercial application ? 2003-08-15 8:47 ` Pascal Obry @ 2003-08-15 23:24 ` Marco Poggioli (a fake exposed name) 2003-08-17 17:43 ` Pascal Obry 0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread From: Marco Poggioli (a fake exposed name) @ 2003-08-15 23:24 UTC (permalink / raw) Hi Pascal, I just came to Your AWS web components, and i would like to know if, given that the source files report the same licence as the gnat libraries, if linking aws is free for commercial use. Can i use the packages in a commercial closed source application provided that: - i don't intend to modify aws code but only link to it - if i should -in a remote future- see some points of amelioration i would submit the modified code for the aws packages with GNU license ? Thanks in advance, Marco. PS: I'm asking this because of the discrepancy between the clauses i found in aws source and the ones described on the site http://libre.act-europe.fr/ for the entire repository of the site itself. On 15 Aug 2003 10:47:09 +0200, Pascal Obry <p.obry@wanadoo.fr> wrote: > >Marco Poggioli <marco.poggioli@terrazzi.com> writes: > >> Subject says all. > >Of course and lot of peoples are doing just that. For a more formal answer >consider sending a message to ACT (sales@gnat.com). > >Pascal. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: [GNAT commercial USE] -- can i use GNAT to develop a closed source commercial application ? 2003-08-15 23:24 ` Marco Poggioli (a fake exposed name) @ 2003-08-17 17:43 ` Pascal Obry 0 siblings, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: Pascal Obry @ 2003-08-17 17:43 UTC (permalink / raw) Hi Marco, > I just came to Your AWS web components, and i would like to know if, > given that the source files report the same licence as the gnat > libraries, if linking aws is free for commercial use. Yes. > > Can i use the packages in a commercial closed source application > provided that: Yes. I'm not a lawyer but this was my intent by using the GMGPL (GNAT Modified GPL) licence. Pascal. -- --|------------------------------------------------------ --| Pascal Obry Team-Ada Member --| 45, rue Gabriel Peri - 78114 Magny Les Hameaux FRANCE --|------------------------------------------------------ --| http://perso.wanadoo.fr/pascal.obry --| "The best way to travel is by means of imagination" --| --| gpg --keyserver wwwkeys.pgp.net --recv-key C1082595 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2003-08-17 17:43 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 16+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2003-08-14 22:42 [GNAT commercial USE] -- can i use GNAT to develop a closed source commercial application ? Marco Poggioli 2003-08-14 23:24 ` Chad R. Meiners 2003-08-15 3:42 ` Steve 2003-08-15 8:28 ` Marco Poggioli 2003-08-15 8:44 ` Preben Randhol 2003-08-15 12:02 ` Marco Poggioli (a fake exposed name) 2003-08-15 13:40 ` Steve 2003-08-15 13:42 ` Steve 2003-08-15 7:30 ` Erlo Haugen 2003-08-15 8:38 ` Preben Randhol 2003-08-15 19:40 ` Simon Wright 2003-08-16 3:18 ` Robert I. Eachus 2003-08-17 11:35 ` Simon Wright 2003-08-15 8:47 ` Pascal Obry 2003-08-15 23:24 ` Marco Poggioli (a fake exposed name) 2003-08-17 17:43 ` Pascal Obry
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