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From: olehjalmar kristensen - Sun Microsystems - Trondheim Norway <ok145024@sun.com>
Subject: Re: A Customer's Request For Open Source Software
Date: 04 Sep 2003 09:19:19 +0200
Date: 2003-09-04T07:19:20+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <wvbrptihkolk.fsf@sun.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 34p5b.8361$Kj.843491@news20.bellglobal.com

>>>>> "WWGV" == Warren W Gay VE3WWG <ve3wwg@cogeco.ca> writes:

<snip>

    WWGV> You might wonder why buffered "block" devices are not good
    WWGV> enough for the purpose. I can't answer to the specifics, but
    WWGV> only that database engines are in a position to better manage
    WWGV> the cache based upon what they "know" needs to be done. Another
    WWGV> important reason to control caching details is that when a
    WWGV> transaction is committed, you need to guarantee that the
    WWGV> data is written to the disk media (or can be recovered if
    WWGV> the database is to be restarted at that point).

The cache management will typically be the same with both OS files and
raw devices. The main difference is as you say, that you have better
control over the raw device with respect to the layout of your tables,
so you may be able to optimize disk writes better.
Usually, you will be able to get higher bandwidth when running on a
raw device.
Most operating systems will allow you to wait until the data are
even if you are using the file system, so there is no difference with
respect to the durability of data.
All portable DBMS need to do their own cache management, so if you are
running on files, both the OS and the DBMS cache the same blocks,
thereby wasiting RAM. Also, the replacement strategies may be
conflicting, resulting in suboptimal performance.

    WWGV> The database
    WWGV> must be recoverable at any given point anyhow, and this
    WWGV> usually requires fine grained control over physical writes
    WWGV> to the media. This aspect and performance means that the
    WWGV> engine must balance performance with reliability (persistance),
    WWGV> which are conflicting goals when using disk.

    WWGV> It is this last area where oodles of persistent fast memory
    WWGV> (instead of disk), can make a world of difference. In this
    WWGV> case persistence = memory performance, which of course is
    WWGV> where the win is. If disks became obsolete (one can hope),
    WWGV> then I could see that new database engine design (internals)
    WWGV> will become much different than what it is today.  Certainly,
    WWGV> many of the present compromises would be eliminated.

    WWGV> -- 
    WWGV> Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
    WWGV> http://home.cogeco.ca/~ve3wwg

Possibly, but keep in mind that most current DBMS's are already CPU
bound when it comes to throughput. Fast disks and techniques like
group commit ensures that the log is rarely a bottleneck, and all you
need to recover is in the log. 
What you can get with large non-volatile memory is much lower latency
per transaction, that is, the response time for a single transaction
can be dramatically lower, even if the throughput in terms of TPS
stays the same.

And in case you were wondering if you could do away with the log, the
answer is yes, if you create some kind of multi-version system. But
you always need some way of keeping track of the history, so you can
roll back your changes in case a transaction decides to abort for some
reason. Actually, one may say that the log IS the database, all the
rest is there only to give faster access to the latest version.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

There can be only One.



  reply	other threads:[~2003-09-04  7:19 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 106+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2003-08-21 12:35 A Customer's Request For Open Source Software Marin David Condic
2003-08-21 12:46 ` Stephane Richard
2003-08-22 12:32   ` Marin David Condic
2003-08-22 13:38     ` David Holm
2003-08-22 14:33       ` Stephane Richard
2003-08-22 16:40         ` David Holm
2003-08-23 13:18           ` Marin David Condic
2003-08-25  8:27             ` Preben Randhol
2003-08-25 20:50               ` Chad R. Meiners
2003-08-26  1:28                 ` Stephane Richard
2003-08-26  9:27                   ` Preben Randhol
2003-08-26 17:06                     ` Chad R. Meiners
2003-08-26 12:51                   ` Marin David Condic
2003-08-26 18:25                     ` Wes Groleau
2003-08-27 10:05                     ` Dave Head
2003-08-27 12:11                       ` Marin David Condic
2003-08-27 19:45                       ` [off-topic] military medicine Wes Groleau
2003-08-30 17:33               ` A Customer's Request For Open Source Software Jan Kroken
2003-09-01 10:03                 ` Preben Randhol
2003-09-17 18:21                   ` Jan Kroken
2003-08-22 16:46         ` Larry Kilgallen
2003-08-22 17:09           ` Stephane Richard
2003-08-22 18:03             ` Larry Kilgallen
2003-08-25  8:33             ` Preben Randhol
2003-08-23 13:05       ` Marin David Condic
2003-08-30  5:58     ` Adrian Hoe
2003-08-30 11:09       ` Stephane Richard
     [not found]         ` <rti721-4p3.ln1@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
2003-08-31 18:28           ` Christopher Browne
2003-09-02 15:44             ` Adrian Hoe
2003-08-30 13:18       ` Marin David Condic
2003-08-21 20:46 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-08-21 21:12   ` Stephane Richard
2003-08-22 20:26     ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-08-22  3:09   ` Hyman Rosen
2003-08-22 12:45     ` Marin David Condic
2003-08-22 20:46     ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-08-22 12:37   ` Marin David Condic
2003-08-22 18:59     ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-08-22 20:59       ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-08-23 13:24         ` Marin David Condic
2003-08-25 19:35         ` Brien
2003-08-25  8:52   ` Preben Randhol
2003-08-25 16:32     ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-08-26  9:19       ` Preben Randhol
2003-08-26 21:01         ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-08-27  5:15           ` Preben Randhol
2003-08-21 22:53 ` David Holm
2003-08-21 23:11   ` Stephane Richard
2003-08-22  0:04     ` David Holm
2003-08-22  0:17       ` Stephane Richard
2003-08-22  0:19       ` Stephane Richard
2003-08-22 17:49         ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-08-22 20:56           ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-08-23  2:29             ` Alexander Kopilovitch
2003-08-24  2:54               ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-08-24  3:11                 ` Matthew Heaney
2003-08-24 14:57                 ` Marin David Condic
2003-08-24 16:31                   ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-08-25 12:37                     ` Marin David Condic
2003-08-25 14:08                       ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-08-25 21:07                         ` Alexander Kopilovitch
2003-08-26 18:34                       ` Christopher Browne
2003-08-27 12:21                         ` Marin David Condic
2003-08-27 13:37                           ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-08-28 22:04                 ` chris
2003-08-29  1:02                   ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-08-29 10:46                     ` Larry Kilgallen
2003-08-29 21:15                       ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-08-29 16:10                     ` Jon S. Anthony
2003-08-30 19:01                     ` Alexander Kopilovitch
2003-08-30 22:57                       ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-08-31 23:04                         ` Alexander Kopilovitch
2003-09-01  2:09                           ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-09-01 16:29                             ` Alexander Kopilovitch
2003-09-01 21:22                               ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-09-02  2:12                                 ` Christopher Browne
2003-09-02  4:16                                   ` Ludovic Brenta
2003-09-02 14:53                                     ` Christopher Browne
2003-09-02 19:52                                       ` Charlie Spitzer
2003-09-03  2:18                                     ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-09-12 12:21                                   ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2003-09-12 17:49                                     ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-09-13  5:49                                       ` Edward Rice
2003-09-13 18:59                                         ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-09-12 20:45                                     ` Christopher Browne
2003-09-02 16:16                                 ` Alexander Kopilovitch
2003-09-03  2:36                                   ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-09-01 21:44                             ` Larry Kilgallen
     [not found]                             ` <e2e5731a.0309010Organization: LJK Software <og4DamrQ9AuX@eisner.encompasserve.org>
2003-09-03  3:02                               ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-09-03 16:57                                 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-09-04  7:19                                   ` olehjalmar kristensen - Sun Microsystems - Trondheim Norway [this message]
2003-09-05 17:06                                     ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-09-05 19:27                                     ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-09-03 12:38                             ` Larry Kilgallen
2003-09-06  2:10                             ` Larry Kilgallen
     [not found]                             ` <e2e5731a.03090Organization: LJK Software <D1upWhxUuOLF@eisner.encompasserve.org>
2003-09-06 20:34                               ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-09-06 23:36                             ` Larry Kilgallen
     [not found]                       ` <hli721-4p3.ln1@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
2003-08-31  2:35                         ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-08-22 20:49       ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-08-23  1:47     ` jim hopper
2003-08-23  1:47       ` Ludovic Brenta
2003-08-25  9:12         ` Preben Randhol
2003-08-25  8:59     ` Preben Randhol
2003-08-25  8:02 ` Preben Randhol
2003-08-25 20:55   ` Chad R. Meiners
2003-08-26  9:28     ` Preben Randhol
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