Re: Two ideas for the next Ada Standard

Re: Two ideas for the next Ada Standard

[Marin David Condic, 407.796.8997, M/S 731-93]

Jon S Anthony <jsa@ALEXANDRIA.AMERICAN.EDU> writes:
>I think the problem here is that instead of learning and understanding
>the Ada model, you are simply trying to write C++ in Ada.  A recipe
>for frustration and annoyance and error if there ever was one.
>
    Years ago when Ada83 first came out, I remember the Fortran
    programmers bitching up and down because you couldn't do with
    packages the things you could do with common blocks and worrying
    about if arrays were addressed in row-major order or not. They
    wanted to write "Adatran" code and found it difficult to "get with
    the game plan." (A good Fortran programmer can write Fortran no
    matter *what* language you give him!)

    Now it's the C++ programmers having a hard time trying to write
    "Ada++" Maybe someone needs to write a "Ada for C++ programmers"
    book that does some reeducation?

    I imagine this is a common problem when switching from *any*
    language to *any other*. It's hard to convince many people that
    they need to adjust the way they think about solving the problems
    to the (dare I use the word?) paradigm imposed by the new
    language.

    MDC

Marin David Condic, Senior Computer Engineer    ATT:        407.796.8997
M/S 731-96                                      Technet:    796.8997
Pratt & Whitney, GESP                           Fax:        407.796.4669
P.O. Box 109600                                 Internet:   CONDICMA@PWFL.COM
West Palm Beach, FL 33410-9600                  Internet:   CONDIC@FLINET.COM
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Retraining from C++ to Ada (was Two Ideas...)

[Larry Kilgallen]

In article <96090416102641@psavax.pwfl.com>, "Marin David Condic, 407.796.8997, M/S 731-93" <condicma@PWFL.COM> writes:

>     Now it's the C++ programmers having a hard time trying to write
>     "Ada++" Maybe someone needs to write a "Ada for C++ programmers"
>     book that does some reeducation?

That is definitely the way the game is played elsewhere in the
industry, and requires not only books but pricey seminars with
flyers delivered to everyone who gets any computer magazine, etc.

Get the "education" companies to feel that they can "sell" some
class seats for retraining programmers from C++ to Ada and they
will do all the advertising Ada ever needed.

Please lets have no backlash from CLA academics regarding Ada 95
being easy enough to be self-taught. Self-taught is a dangerous
approach because it fails to fill peoples brochure piles with
the word Ada !!!

Larry Kilgallen

Re: Retraining from C++ to Ada (was Two Ideas...)

[Laurent Guerby]

[In relation with the subject]

   There's a free hypertext Ada 95 tutorial for programmers with a
C/C++ background at the URL:

   http://lglwww.epfl.ch/Ada/Ammo/Cplpl2Ada.html

   There's also a very good hypertext tutorial by David Wheeler called
Lovelace (same site).

   And if you're a beginner in Ada 95 programming, you may want to try
GNAT the GNU Ada 95 compiler (ftp://cs.nyu.edu/pub/gnat) which gives
very good error message, especially for current mistakes (and is free).

-- 
Laurent Guerby <guerby@gnat.com>, Team Ada.
   "Use the Source, Luke. The Source will be with you, always (GPL)."

Re: Two ideas for the next Ada Standard

[Jon S Anthony]

In article <96090416102641@psavax.pwfl.com> "Marin David Condic, 407.796.8997, M/S 731-93" <condicma@PWFL.COM> writes:

> Jon S Anthony <jsa@ALEXANDRIA.AMERICAN.EDU> writes:

Wow.  Something is _really_ screwy with my address.  I'm certainly
not at "americant.edu" - I'm at where my sig. sez.  I wonder what the
deal is with this - some others have pointed out some screwy things
with my address too.  <mutter mutter damn Unix mutter mutter damn UUNET
mutter mutter>


>     I imagine this is a common problem when switching from *any*
>     language to *any other*. It's hard to convince many people that
>     they need to adjust the way they think about solving the problems
>     to the (dare I use the word?) paradigm imposed by the new
>     language.

To me, the trick has always been to understand what it is that the
various constructs and their interrelationships are trying to solve or
what capability they are trying to provide.  I mean this at the level
of the language - not "just" the programmer's view trying to write a
hunk of code.  Once you have that, it is fairly easy to move around.
"Oh language X solves that problem with A, B, and C.  Interesting.
Language Y solves it with R and Q."  The only place where you may hit
a speed bump with this is when moving between procedural and
declarative languages.

/Jon
-- 
Jon Anthony
Organon Motives, Inc.
1 Williston Road, Suite 4
Belmont, MA 02178

617.484.3383
jsa@organon.com

Re: Retraining from C++ to Ada (was Two Ideas...)

[Simon Johnston]

Look out for my book entitled "Ada 95 for C and C++ programmers" due to =
be published by Addison Wesley this year. It will have an entry in the =
new catalogue due out in the next couple of weeks.

This book builds on initial work done for a web page at HBAP.

with StandardDisclaimer; use StandardDisclaimer;
package Sig is
--,----------------------------------------------------------------------=
---.
--|Simon K. Johnston - Development Engineer (C++/Ada95) |ICL Retail =
Systems |
--|-----------------------------------------------------|3/4 Willoughby =
Road|
--|Unix Mail: skj@acm.org                               |Bracknell       =
   |
--|Telephone: +44 (0)1344 476320 Fax: +44 (0)1344 476302|Berkshire       =
   |
--|Internal : 7261 6320   OP Mail: S.K.Johnston@BRA0801 |RG12 8TJ        =
   |
--|WWW URL  : http://www.acm.org/~skj/                  |United Kingdom  =
   |
--`----------------------------------------------------------------------=
---'
end Sig;

----------
From:   Larry Kilgallen[SMTP:kilgallen@EISNER.DECUS.ORG]
Sent:   Thursday, September 05, 1996 2:14 PM
To:     INFO-ADA@LISTSERV.NODAK.EDU
Subject:        Retraining from C++ to Ada (was Two Ideas...)

In article <96090416102641@psavax.pwfl.com>, "Marin David Condic, =
407.796.8997,
M/S 731-93" <condicma@PWFL.COM> writes:

>     Now it's the C++ programmers having a hard time trying to write
>     "Ada++" Maybe someone needs to write a "Ada for C++ programmers"
>     book that does some reeducation?

That is definitely the way the game is played elsewhere in the
industry, and requires not only books but pricey seminars with
flyers delivered to everyone who gets any computer magazine, etc.

Get the "education" companies to feel that they can "sell" some
class seats for retraining programmers from C++ to Ada and they
will do all the advertising Ada ever needed.

Please lets have no backlash from CLA academics regarding Ada 95
being easy enough to be self-taught. Self-taught is a dangerous
approach because it fails to fill peoples brochure piles with
the word Ada !!!

Larry Kilgallen