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From: Robert A Duff <bobduff@shell01.TheWorld.com>
Subject: Re: Silly and stupid post-condition or not ?
Date: Sun, 05 Feb 2012 10:16:26 -0500
Date: 2012-02-05T10:16:26-05:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <wccobtdfgz9.fsf@shell01.TheWorld.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: jgl7k6$lp1$1@munin.nbi.dk

"Randy Brukardt" <randy@rrsoftware.com> writes:

> The postcondition (and precondition) moves this "contract" information to 
> where it belongs (on the specification).

Right.  That's what makes a precondition better than simply putting
a pragma Assert at the start of the procedure body.

>... That allows the compiler to take 
> advantage of that information, and in many cases completely eliminate the 
> associated checks (just like the compiler can eliminate a large proportion 
> of constraint checks). Like constraint checks, well-written contracts should 
> never need to be turned off...

I don't agree.  There are definitely cases when constraint checks
should be turned off.  Likewise preconditions.  If you say
"Never turn off checks", you're really saying "Never write
an assertion that is too expensive in production, even
though it might be helpful in testing and debugging",
which is clearly counter-productive.

>...(as always, it's like taking off the seatbelts 
> when you leave the garage...).

I don't buy this analogy (nor the similar one about life jackets and
sailboats).  Seatbelts often save lives and reduce injuries
when something goes wrong.  Preconditions (etc) don't cause
programs to give correct answers when something goes wrong
-- they just detect the wrongness.

By the way, I find that when I (at first) think I want a
pre/post, it's usually better expressed as a subtype predicate.
My favorite new feature of Ada 2012.

- Bob



  parent reply	other threads:[~2012-02-05 15:16 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 84+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2012-01-30 23:11 Silly and stupid post‑condition or not ? Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2012-01-31  6:47 ` J-P. Rosen
2012-01-31 18:48   ` Jeffrey Carter
2012-01-31 22:02     ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2012-01-31  8:54 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-01-31  9:35   ` Georg Bauhaus
2012-01-31 10:22     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-01-31 12:33       ` Georg Bauhaus
2012-01-31 13:52         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-01-31 15:34           ` Georg Bauhaus
2012-01-31 16:24             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-01-31 19:44               ` Georg Bauhaus
2012-02-01  8:41                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-02-01 10:37                   ` stefan-lucks
2012-02-01 10:51                     ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2012-02-01 13:49                     ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2012-02-01 13:49                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-02-01 16:37                       ` stefan-lucks
2012-02-02  1:50                         ` Silly and stupid post�?'condition " Randy Brukardt
2012-02-02  1:56                           ` Silly and stupid postâ?'condition or not ? Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2012-02-03  2:45                             ` Silly and stupid post�?'condition or not ? Randy Brukardt
2012-02-02  8:25                         ` Silly and stupid post‑condition " Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-02-02  9:01                           ` stefan-lucks
2012-02-02  9:18                           ` stefan-lucks
2012-02-02 10:04                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-01-31 22:08         ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2012-01-31 17:28 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-01-31 22:12   ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2012-02-01  8:49     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-02-01  8:36 ` Stephen Leake
2012-02-01 16:30   ` Silly and stupid post-condition " Adam Beneschan
2012-02-02  9:40     ` Stephen Leake
2012-02-02 13:20       ` Georg Bauhaus
2012-02-02 13:35         ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2012-02-03  3:13       ` Randy Brukardt
2012-02-03  3:33         ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2012-02-03  8:12         ` Simon Wright
2012-02-07  2:29           ` BrianG
2012-02-07 10:43             ` Simon Wright
2012-02-08  2:25               ` BrianG
2012-02-07 21:15             ` Robert A Duff
2012-02-03  9:11         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-02-04  3:27           ` Randy Brukardt
2012-02-04 10:15             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-02-03 12:25         ` Phil Thornley
2012-02-04  9:30         ` Phil Thornley
2012-02-04 12:02         ` Phil Thornley
2012-02-05  6:18           ` Randy Brukardt
2012-02-05 10:23             ` Phil Thornley
2012-02-05 10:55               ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2012-02-05 15:03               ` Robert A Duff
2012-02-05 18:04                 ` Phil Thornley
2012-02-05 21:27                   ` Robert A Duff
2012-02-05 23:09                     ` Phil Thornley
2012-02-07  2:05               ` Randy Brukardt
2012-02-07  9:38                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-02-05 11:31             ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2012-02-05 14:50             ` Robert A Duff
2012-02-07  2:11               ` Randy Brukardt
2012-02-07  2:34             ` BrianG
2012-02-07  4:38               ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2012-02-09  3:10               ` Randy Brukardt
2012-02-04 23:07         ` Stephen Leake
2012-02-05  2:49           ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2012-02-05  6:29           ` Randy Brukardt
2012-02-05 11:40             ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2012-02-07  1:36               ` Randy Brukardt
2012-02-05 15:16             ` Robert A Duff [this message]
2012-02-06  4:56               ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2012-02-06 14:39                 ` Robert A Duff
2012-02-06 16:12                   ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2012-02-07  1:46               ` Randy Brukardt
2012-02-07 17:24                 ` Robert A Duff
2012-02-03  6:26       ` J-P. Rosen
2012-02-03  9:12         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-02-03  9:48           ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2012-02-03 11:09             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-02-03 11:40               ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2012-02-03 13:18                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-02-03 14:14                   ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2012-02-03 14:45                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-02-04  3:16           ` Randy Brukardt
2012-02-04  6:27             ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2012-02-04 10:47             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
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