From: Robert A Duff <bobduff@shell01.TheWorld.com>
Subject: Re: Standard Ada Preprocessor
Date: 27 Jan 2004 15:55:41 -0500
Date: 2004-01-27T15:55:41-05:00 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <wccn089qfg2.fsf@shell01.TheWorld.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: XdxRb.49218$Kg6.359124@news20.bellglobal.com
"Warren W. Gay VE3WWG" <warren@ve3wwg.tk> writes:
> The "Ada phylosophy" works until...
I'm rather skeptical of talk about "Ada philosophy". I agree with you
and MDC that the issue is a very practical one. It's all well and good
to recommend encapsulating system dependencies in package bodies and so
forth. But you still need some mechanism to select which body to use in
each case. I don't see any advantage to using make-file hackery for
that, over using #ifdef's.
The fact that some C programs are ugly due to overuse of #ifdefs is not
a good reason to outlaw preprocessors. First of all, scattering #ifdefs
all over the place is not necessary, even in C, given a good design.
Second, if Ada had a preprocessor, it wouldn't be used as in C: to
define enumeration types, to write pragma-inline functions, to write
generics. It would be used sparingly.
> I would just like people to look at some of the "practical"
> issues without resorting to quoting "ivory tower" notions.
I agree.
> I am not against any of these techniques. What I am against
> is the notion that "no, we don't do it that way because it
> might get abused".
I agree. The language designer's job is to prevent mistakes,
not to prevent deliberate abuse.
- Bob
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2004-01-27 20:55 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 294+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2004-01-17 11:15 why ada is so unpopular ? Szymon Guz
2004-01-17 13:53 ` Martin Dowie
2004-01-17 14:27 ` Dmytry Lavrov
2004-01-17 21:02 ` Szymon Guz
2004-01-17 22:36 ` Adrian Knoth
2004-01-18 9:21 ` Szymon Guz
2004-01-18 12:18 ` Luke A. Guest
2004-01-18 13:09 ` Ronald Dauster
2004-01-18 12:59 ` Ronald Dauster
2004-01-18 13:25 ` Stephane Richard
2004-01-18 14:17 ` Szymon Guz
2004-01-18 14:42 ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-18 15:23 ` Szymon Guz
2004-01-18 17:53 ` Jeffrey Carter
2004-01-18 16:34 ` Preben Randhol
2004-01-19 12:59 ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-19 13:06 ` Preben Randhol
2004-01-19 13:28 ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-19 13:37 ` Preben Randhol
2004-01-20 12:38 ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-20 17:31 ` Standard Ada Preprocessor (Was: why ada is so unpopular ?) Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-20 18:50 ` Standard Ada Preprocessor Georg Bauhaus
2004-01-26 4:00 ` Peter Richtmyer
2004-01-26 5:01 ` tmoran
2004-01-26 12:01 ` Marin David Condic
2004-02-01 15:09 ` Mark
2004-02-01 19:10 ` Frank J. Lhota
2004-02-02 16:48 ` Martin Krischik
2004-02-02 18:22 ` Frank J. Lhota
2004-01-21 12:39 ` Standard Ada Preprocessor (Was: why ada is so unpopular ?) Marin David Condic
2004-01-21 13:12 ` Standard Ada Preprocessor Georg Bauhaus
2004-01-22 0:05 ` Standard Ada Preprocessor (Was: why ada is so unpopular ?) Robert I. Eachus
2004-01-22 5:59 ` Randy Brukardt
2004-01-22 12:58 ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-22 17:25 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-23 12:24 ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-23 13:46 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-01-23 17:16 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-23 17:52 ` Jeffrey Carter
2004-01-23 21:57 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-24 0:52 ` Jeffrey Carter
2004-01-26 17:19 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-27 12:24 ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-27 19:03 ` Standard Ada Preprocessor Georg Bauhaus
2004-01-24 1:34 ` Standard Ada Preprocessor (Was: why ada is so unpopular ?) Marin David Condic
2004-01-26 17:27 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-27 12:30 ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-24 8:20 ` Pascal Obry
2004-01-26 17:29 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-23 17:56 ` Larry Hazel
2004-01-24 1:36 ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-23 22:14 ` Randy Brukardt
2004-01-23 22:42 ` tmoran
2004-01-26 17:50 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-26 18:54 ` Standard Ada Preprocessor Jeffrey Carter
2004-01-26 21:53 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-27 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
2004-01-27 17:30 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-27 20:55 ` Robert A Duff [this message]
2004-01-27 22:03 ` Robert I. Eachus
2004-01-28 12:28 ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-28 20:55 ` Simon Wright
2004-01-29 12:40 ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-29 18:08 ` Jeffrey Carter
2004-01-30 12:30 ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-29 20:45 ` Simon Wright
2004-01-29 23:12 ` Randy Brukardt
2004-01-30 13:09 ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-30 18:06 ` Jeffrey Carter
2004-01-31 8:11 ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-30 12:36 ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-30 16:52 ` Pascal Obry
2004-01-31 8:25 ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-27 21:04 ` Randy Brukardt
2004-01-28 12:42 ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-27 12:48 ` Standard Ada Preprocessor (Was: why ada is so unpopular ?) Marin David Condic
2004-01-26 9:34 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-01-26 19:23 ` Randy Brukardt
2004-01-23 2:47 ` Robert I. Eachus
2004-01-23 12:38 ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-24 5:23 ` Robert I. Eachus
2004-01-24 12:28 ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-24 15:32 ` Robert I. Eachus
2004-01-24 15:43 ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-25 4:24 ` Robert I. Eachus
2004-01-25 16:24 ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-29 11:17 ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2004-01-29 12:52 ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-26 18:03 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-26 19:14 ` Standard Ada Preprocessor Jeffrey Carter
2004-01-26 22:04 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-27 1:00 ` Jeffrey Carter
2004-01-27 8:35 ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2004-01-27 11:09 ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-01-27 15:22 ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2004-01-27 15:54 ` Robert I. Eachus
2004-01-27 18:00 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-27 19:19 ` David Starner
2004-01-27 20:08 ` Ludovic Brenta
2004-01-27 20:19 ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-01-27 20:58 ` Randy Brukardt
2004-01-27 22:13 ` Simon Wright
2004-01-27 23:04 ` David Starner
2004-01-28 1:41 ` Jeffrey Carter
2004-01-28 2:26 ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-01-28 2:50 ` Stephen Leake
2004-01-28 3:21 ` Jeff C,
2004-01-28 3:57 ` David Starner
2004-01-29 3:03 ` Stephen Leake
2004-01-29 7:20 ` David Starner
2004-01-29 11:14 ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-01-29 18:56 ` David Starner
2004-01-29 19:41 ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-01-29 12:57 ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-29 13:51 ` Preben Randhol
2004-01-30 2:46 ` Robert I. Eachus
2004-01-28 20:34 ` Michael Bode
2004-01-29 3:06 ` Stephen Leake
2004-01-28 12:50 ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-27 20:44 ` Randy Brukardt
2004-01-27 22:15 ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2004-01-29 17:31 ` Standard Ada Preprocessor (conclusions) Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-29 19:44 ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-01-30 13:25 ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-30 13:29 ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2004-01-30 13:53 ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-30 14:14 ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2004-01-27 19:11 ` Standard Ada Preprocessor Jeffrey Carter
2004-01-27 21:48 ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2004-01-28 16:26 ` Robert I. Eachus
2004-01-29 2:51 ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2004-01-29 11:19 ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-01-29 22:02 ` Nature of XML (was: Re: Standard Ada Preprocessor) Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2004-01-30 8:53 ` Preben Randhol
2004-01-30 17:35 ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2004-01-30 19:13 ` Preben Randhol
2004-01-31 16:04 ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2004-01-31 16:45 ` Preben Randhol
2004-01-30 18:49 ` Nature of XML Georg Bauhaus
2004-01-30 19:16 ` Marius Amado Alves
2004-01-30 22:59 ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-01-31 1:26 ` Robert I. Eachus
2004-01-31 13:08 ` Nature of XML (ramblings) Marius Amado Alves
2004-01-31 18:14 ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-02-03 1:35 ` Nature of XML Robert C. Leif
2004-02-03 14:23 ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-01-27 17:50 ` Standard Ada Preprocessor Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-27 20:42 ` Randy Brukardt
2004-01-27 21:41 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-28 9:10 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-01-29 17:39 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-28 23:21 ` Randy Brukardt
2004-01-29 17:46 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-30 3:20 ` Robert I. Eachus
2004-01-28 12:27 ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2004-01-29 17:53 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-27 17:33 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-27 19:07 ` Jeffrey Carter
2004-01-27 21:42 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-27 2:35 ` Randy Brukardt
2004-01-27 21:47 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-28 1:19 ` Jeffrey Carter
2004-01-28 12:30 ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2004-01-28 23:35 ` Randy Brukardt
2004-01-29 10:16 ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2004-01-29 17:58 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-29 23:19 ` Randy Brukardt
2004-01-27 3:54 ` Jeffrey Carter
2004-01-27 21:53 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-28 1:27 ` Jeffrey Carter
2004-01-29 18:02 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-28 20:35 ` Pascal Obry
2004-01-29 0:53 ` Jeffrey Carter
2004-01-28 23:41 ` Randy Brukardt
2004-01-29 18:04 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-30 2:33 ` Chad R. Meiners
2004-01-30 18:00 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-30 22:52 ` Blinking text Chad R. Meiners
2004-02-06 17:14 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-27 7:41 ` Standard Ada Preprocessor Pascal Obry
2004-01-27 21:53 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-27 0:06 ` Robert I. Eachus
2004-01-27 21:55 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-28 1:34 ` Jeffrey Carter
2004-01-30 17:19 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-30 19:06 ` Frank J. Lhota
2004-02-10 11:18 ` stephen.freeman9
2004-02-10 17:45 ` Language Design (was Standard Ada Preprocessor) Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-27 0:17 ` Standard Ada Preprocessor Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2004-01-26 23:44 ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-01-27 22:04 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-28 2:47 ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-01-30 17:29 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-30 19:06 ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-01-31 8:42 ` Marin David Condic
2004-02-02 17:28 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-27 0:15 ` Standard Ada Preprocessor (Was: why ada is so unpopular ?) Robert I. Eachus
2004-01-27 22:05 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-24 8:17 ` Pascal Obry
2004-01-24 12:44 ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-24 15:39 ` Robert I. Eachus
2004-01-24 16:06 ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-26 11:28 ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2004-01-26 12:07 ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-23 16:38 ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2004-01-23 17:54 ` Jeffrey Carter
2004-01-23 17:24 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-23 22:30 ` Randy Brukardt
2004-01-26 22:11 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-27 0:28 ` Robert I. Eachus
2004-01-27 22:13 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-27 1:02 ` Jeffrey Carter
2004-01-22 14:13 ` Robert A Duff
2004-01-22 17:27 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-23 12:54 ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-23 17:26 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-23 12:52 ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-24 5:52 ` Robert I. Eachus
2004-01-24 12:56 ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-24 15:53 ` Robert I. Eachus
2004-01-30 17:39 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-31 1:58 ` Robert I. Eachus
2004-02-02 17:55 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-02-04 18:36 ` Robert I. Eachus
2004-02-06 17:27 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-02-07 13:18 ` Marin David Condic
2004-02-09 17:37 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-02-10 14:59 ` Standard Ada Preprocessor Jacob Sparre Andersen
2004-02-10 17:57 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-02-10 21:49 ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2004-02-11 8:34 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-02-13 17:27 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-30 17:34 ` Standard Ada Preprocessor (Was: why ada is so unpopular ?) Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-22 12:47 ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-22 13:24 ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2004-01-22 18:20 ` Robert A Duff
2004-01-23 9:18 ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2004-01-23 12:59 ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-23 14:21 ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2004-01-24 6:02 ` Robert I. Eachus
2004-01-24 13:09 ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-24 19:32 ` tmoran
2004-01-24 20:34 ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-22 17:29 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-22 13:19 ` Standard Ada Preprocessor Georg Bauhaus
2004-01-22 13:49 ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-22 15:03 ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-01-22 17:33 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-22 19:02 ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-01-23 17:35 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-24 1:50 ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-24 5:33 ` Randy Brukardt
2004-01-24 13:28 ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-24 15:58 ` Robert I. Eachus
2004-01-24 16:11 ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-24 19:32 ` tmoran
2004-01-24 20:44 ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-25 5:02 ` Robert I. Eachus
2004-01-25 16:38 ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-26 16:03 ` Robert I. Eachus
2004-01-24 23:39 ` Randy Brukardt
2004-01-25 13:47 ` Stephane Richard
2004-01-26 19:19 ` Randy Brukardt
2004-01-24 6:08 ` Robert I. Eachus
2004-01-23 13:11 ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-22 14:12 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
[not found] ` <ldlq00hmnm7ofaqem3kkrt7qhf6o7kjfmj@4ax.com>
2004-01-21 12:20 ` why ada is so unpopular ? Marin David Condic
2004-01-19 13:09 ` Jeff C,
2004-01-19 23:03 ` Robert I. Eachus
2004-01-20 1:10 ` cl1
2004-01-20 5:34 ` Robert I. Eachus
2004-01-20 7:37 ` Preben Randhol
2004-01-20 16:41 ` Robert I. Eachus
2004-01-20 23:59 ` Stephen Leake
2004-01-21 10:29 ` Preben Randhol
2004-01-17 23:01 ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-18 0:30 ` Hyman Rosen
2004-01-18 2:06 ` cl1
2004-01-18 3:12 ` Hyman Rosen
2004-01-18 3:28 ` cl1
2004-01-18 14:34 ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-19 23:46 ` chris
2004-01-18 18:41 ` Jano
2004-01-21 2:01 ` Luke A. Guest
2004-01-21 14:23 ` Hyman Rosen
2004-01-21 14:31 ` Ludovic Brenta
2004-01-21 15:15 ` Hyman Rosen
2004-01-21 18:40 ` Robert A Duff
2004-01-21 18:31 ` chris
2004-01-22 13:11 ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-22 23:33 ` Stephen Leake
2004-01-23 13:25 ` Marin David Condic
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2004-01-26 13:30 Standard Ada Preprocessor Lionel.DRAGHI
2004-01-26 16:10 ` Robert I. Eachus
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