Latest GNAT version

Latest GNAT version

[Horst Hecker]

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�s there (a binary, public) GNAT version beyond 3.15p? 

Re: Latest GNAT version

[Ludovic Brenta]

No. AdaCore have not made a formal "p" release sice 3.15p, but they
seem to think that GCC 3.4 and 4.0 are good enough. Which is true,
except that these versions don't support ASIS or the distributed
systems annex GLADE.

If enough people politely ask for a newer "p" release with ASIS and
GLADE, perhaps they will listen?  I for one would very much like to
transition Ada in Debian to GCC 4.0, which will be the system compiler
for the next stable release, codenamed "etch".

-- 
Ludovic Brenta.

Re: Latest GNAT version

[Randy]

Ludovic Brenta wrote:
> No. AdaCore have not made a formal "p" release sice 3.15p, but they
> seem to think that GCC 3.4 and 4.0 are good enough. Which is true,
> except that these versions don't support ASIS or the distributed
> systems annex GLADE.
> 
> If enough people politely ask for a newer "p" release with ASIS and
> GLADE, perhaps they will listen?  I for one would very much like to
> transition Ada in Debian to GCC 4.0, which will be the system compiler
> for the next stable release, codenamed "etch".
> 

I don't know very much about ADA.  Is that the only version of ADA out 
there?  The "best?"  Do you know when the new standards will come out?
Sorry for stupid questions :)
Randy

Re: Latest GNAT version

[Ludovic Brenta]

The current version is Ada 95, and there are several compilers
available; see http://www.adaic.com for a list of compilers.

The next version is called Ada 200y, and I don't know when it
will be published.

The "best" compiler depends on your host and target platforms
(host is where you compile, target is where your program runs).

For example, if you are on Debian and targetting Debian, I say
(with my Debian maintainer hat on) that the "best" compiler is
the "gnat" package that comes with Debian.  If you are new to
Ada, get Debian and you'll have all you need to get started,
and no compilation or installation hassles.

HTH

-- 
Ludovic Brenta.

Re: Latest GNAT version

[Pascal Obry]

Ludovic Brenta a �crit :
> The next version is called Ada 200y, and I don't know when it
> will be published.

We know that it will be called Ada 2005 now. This is settled.

Pascal.

-- 

--|------------------------------------------------------
--| Pascal Obry                           Team-Ada Member
--| 45, rue Gabriel Peri - 78114 Magny Les Hameaux FRANCE
--|------------------------------------------------------
--|              http://www.obry.net
--| "The best way to travel is by means of imagination"
--|
--| gpg --keyserver wwwkeys.pgp.net --recv-key C1082595

Re: Latest GNAT version

[Randy Brukardt]

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"Pascal Obry" <pascal@obry.net> wrote in message
news:42fa1f33$0$890$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr...
> Ludovic Brenta a �crit :
> > The next version is called Ada 200y, and I don't know when it
> > will be published.
>
> We know that it will be called Ada 2005 now. This is settled.

Not at all. All that is settled is that it will be called that until the
standard is published (just like the previous version was called "Ada 9X"
until it was published). At that point, the topic will be revisted.

I think it is a mistake to use the same name before and after publication of
the standard, because in that case it is impossible to tell whether
articles, web pages, etc. are based on earlier drafts or on the final
thing -- and there typically are enough differences that it will matter.

Personally, I think it is a mistake to use a particular year in the name
until it is standardized, and I'll be using "Ada 200Y" in my personal
correspondence. (Of course, in official documents, I'll use whatever I'm
required to do.) And, in any case, the official name of the language is and
will remain "Ada", and that's all that's needed for the general public.
(Only in places with lots of existing Ada users, like here, is it necessary
to tell the difference.)

                                Randy.

Re: Latest GNAT version

[Pascal Obry]

Randy Brukardt a �crit :
> Not at all. All that is settled is that it will be called that until the
> standard is published (just like the previous version was called "Ada 9X"
> until it was published). At that point, the topic will be revisted.

I do not agree with this. It looks like complete mess to me :(

It was Ada0Y, then Ada 2005, then Ada 2006 then now back to
Ada 2005 and maybe it will change again later !

Pascal.

-- 

--|------------------------------------------------------
--| Pascal Obry                           Team-Ada Member
--| 45, rue Gabriel Peri - 78114 Magny Les Hameaux FRANCE
--|------------------------------------------------------
--|              http://www.obry.net
--| "The best way to travel is by means of imagination"
--|
--| gpg --keyserver wwwkeys.pgp.net --recv-key C1082595

Re: Latest GNAT version

[Robert A Duff]

"Randy Brukardt" <randy@rrsoftware.com> writes:

> Not at all. All that is settled is that it will be called that until the
> standard is published (just like the previous version was called "Ada 9X"
> until it was published). At that point, the topic will be revisted.
> 
> I think it is a mistake to use the same name before and after publication of
> the standard, because in that case it is impossible to tell whether
> articles, web pages, etc. are based on earlier drafts or on the final
> thing -- and there typically are enough differences that it will matter.

I agree ("it is a mistake to use the same name before and after...").

> Personally, I think it is a mistake to use a particular year in the name
> until it is standardized, and I'll be using "Ada 200Y" in my personal
> correspondence.

Randy, could I persuade you to say "Ada 200X"?  (And, in 10 years,
"201X"?)  The "X" just stands for who-knows-which-year.  The "Y" leads
to silly anti-Ada jokes, like "Ada -- Oy" and "Ada, Oh why?".  OTOH,
"Ada Ox" sounds OK to me (an ox is powerful).

>... (Of course, in official documents, I'll use whatever I'm
> required to do.) And, in any case, the official name of the language is and
> will remain "Ada", and that's all that's needed for the general public.
> (Only in places with lots of existing Ada users, like here, is it necessary
> to tell the difference.)

Right.

What matters, of course, is when compiler writers produce
implementations of Ada 200X.  They are working on it even as we speak!

What matters much less is which year (2005? 2006?) ISO gets around to
finishing the red tape and declaring it official.  That can take some
time.

- Bob

Re: Latest GNAT version

[Jean-Pierre Rosen]

Randy Brukardt a �crit :

> Not at all. All that is settled is that it will be called that until the
> standard is published (just like the previous version was called "Ada 9X"
> until it was published). At that point, the topic will be revisted.

Sorry, but nothing of the kind has ever been said.
In York, ISO passed a motion to recommend that the vernacular name of 
the language be Ada 2005. Of course, ISO cannot rule how people speak, 
so anybody can call the language the way he wants. The official name 
will be ISO/IEC 8652:1995 with corr. 1 and amdmt 1.

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------
            J-P. Rosen (rosen@adalog.fr)
Visit Adalog's web site at http://www.adalog.fr

Re: Latest GNAT version

[Randy Brukardt]

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"Jean-Pierre Rosen" <rosen@adalog.fr> wrote in message
news:vhuedd.d2n.ln@hunter.axlog.fr...
> Randy Brukardt a �crit :
>
> > Not at all. All that is settled is that it will be called that until the
> > standard is published (just like the previous version was called "Ada
9X"
> > until it was published). At that point, the topic will be revisted.
>
> Sorry, but nothing of the kind has ever been said.
> In York, ISO passed a motion to recommend that the vernacular name of
> the language be Ada 2005. Of course, ISO cannot rule how people speak,
> so anybody can call the language the way he wants. The official name
> will be ISO/IEC 8652:1995 with corr. 1 and amdmt 1.
>
> --
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>             J-P. Rosen (rosen@adalog.fr)
> Visit Adalog's web site at http://www.adalog.fr

Re: Latest GNAT version

[Randy Brukardt]

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"Jean-Pierre Rosen" <rosen@adalog.fr> wrote in message
news:vhuedd.d2n.ln@hunter.axlog.fr...
> Randy Brukardt a �crit :
>
> > Not at all. All that is settled is that it will be called that until the
> > standard is published (just like the previous version was called "Ada
9X"
> > until it was published). At that point, the topic will be revisted.
>
> Sorry, but nothing of the kind has ever been said.

It certainly was said several times.

> In York, ISO passed a motion to recommend that the vernacular name of
> the language be Ada 2005.

We needed some sort of decision now because we had to decide what to put
into the documents.

But such a motion stands only until it is revised. Which it will be.

Your note suggests to me that many people at WG9 didn't understand what we
were trying to decide. (Or I was lied to.) In any case, it's clear that I'll
have to make sure that what I understood actually is done. ("Revisiting"
doesn't necessarily mean "change", of course, just that it is properly
considered.)

> Of course, ISO cannot rule how people speak,
> so anybody can call the language the way he wants. The official name
> will be ISO/IEC 8652:1995 with corr. 1 and amdmt 1.

You mean the official name of the documents. That will be:
   ISO/IEC 8652:1995 with CORR1:2001 and AMD.1:200y
(where the "y" will be replaced by the publication year). I doubt many
people will use that for any purpose.

                        Randy.

Re: Latest GNAT version

[Randy]

Ludovic Brenta wrote:
> The current version is Ada 95, and there are several compilers
> available; see http://www.adaic.com for a list of compilers.
> 
> The next version is called Ada 200y, and I don't know when it
> will be published.
> 
> The "best" compiler depends on your host and target platforms
> (host is where you compile, target is where your program runs).
> 
> For example, if you are on Debian and targetting Debian, I say
> (with my Debian maintainer hat on) that the "best" compiler is
> the "gnat" package that comes with Debian.  If you are new to
> Ada, get Debian and you'll have all you need to get started,
> and no compilation or installation hassles.
> 
> HTH
> 
I am afraid I'm just using windows right now.  I don't know what 
"Debian" is.
I don't know very much about anything at this time.

Re: Latest GNAT version

[Ludovic Brenta]

I like it when people are "afraid [they're] just using Windows" :)

If you are on Windows, AIDE (Ada Instant Development Environment) is
for you. Have a look here:

http://stephane.rochebrune.org/aide/aide.html

Debian is "the universal operating system", consisting of the Linux
kernel, GNU libraries and utilities, and 9000 assorted applications.
See http://www.debian.org

-- 
Ludovic Brenta.

Re: Latest GNAT version

[Stephane Riviere]

Hi Ludovic and all,

> I like it when people are "afraid [they're] just using Windows" :)

As an old Windows user, I must admit you're right. I'm currently 
migrating my main workstations under Debian GNU/Linux. My new archive 
rig is a Debian _software_ RAID1 server built 'from scratch', more 
precisely with a Knoppix or any live CD having a RAID kernel and 
debootstrap facilities. A small doc is planned before august's end.

> If you are on Windows, AIDE (Ada Instant Development Environment) is
> for you. Have a look here:

A new AIDE 1.03 release will be release this week. It includes a real 
installer, new GPS release, Texinfo driver for Adadoc, OpenGL tools and 
examples, and many more. It will be the last pure Windows AIDE Release.

The next one will be GCC 4 bases, multi-platform (windows and linux) and 
cross-platform (windows-x86, linux-x86 and 8 bits Atmel-AVR).

Best from France,

-- 
Stephane Riviere
Oleron Island - France
http://stephane.rochebrune.org
OpenPgp Key <5fd6a1e6> available on the web site above

Re: Latest GNAT version

[Stephane Riviere]

Hi Ludovic and all,

> I like it when people are "afraid [they're] just using Windows" :)

As an old Windows user, I must admit you're right. I'm currently 
migrating my main workstations under Debian GNU/Linux. My new archive 
rig is a Debian _software_ RAID1 server built 'from scratch', more 
precisely with a Knoppix or any live CD having a RAID kernel and 
debootstrap facilities. A small doc is planned before august's end.

> If you are on Windows, AIDE (Ada Instant Development Environment) is
> for you. Have a look here:

A new AIDE 1.03 release will be release this week. It includes a real 
installer, new GPS release, Texinfo driver for Adadoc, OpenGL tools and 
examples, and many more. It will be the last pure Windows AIDE Release.

The next one will be GCC 4 bases, multi-platform (windows and linux) and 
cross-platform (windows-x86, linux-x86 and 8 bits Atmel-AVR).

Best from France,

-- 
Stephane Riviere
Oleron Island - France
http://stephane.rochebrune.org
OpenPgp Key <5fd6a1e6> available on the web site above

Re: Latest GNAT version

[Stephane Riviere]

Hi Ludovic and all,

 > I like it when people are "afraid [they're] just using Windows" :)

As an old Windows user, I must admit you're right. I'm currently 
migrating my main workstations under Debian GNU/Linux. My new archive 
rig is a Debian _software_ RAID1 server built 'from scratch', more 
precisely with a Knoppix or any live CD having a RAID kernel and 
debootstrap facilities. A small doc is planned before august's end.

 > If you are on Windows, AIDE (Ada Instant Development Environment) is
 > for you. Have a look here:

A new AIDE 1.03 release will be release this week. It includes a real 
installer, new GPS release, Texinfo driver for Adadoc, OpenGL tools and 
examples, and many more. It will be the last pure Windows AIDE Release.

The next one will be GCC 4 bases, multi-platform (windows and linux) and 
cross-platform (windows-x86, linux-x86 and 8 bits Atmel-AVR).

Best from France,

-- 
Stephane Riviere
Oleron Island - France
http://stephane.rochebrune.org
OpenPgp Key <5fd6a1e6> available on the web site above

Re: Latest GNAT version

[Stephane Riviere]

Hi Ludovic and all,

 > I like it when people are "afraid [they're] just using Windows" :)

As an old Windows user, I must admit you're right. I'm currently 
migrating my main workstations under Debian GNU/Linux. My new archive 
rig is a Debian _software_ RAID1 server built 'from scratch', more 
precisely with a Knoppix or any live CD having a RAID kernel and 
debootstrap facilities. A small doc is planned before august's end.

 > If you are on Windows, AIDE (Ada Instant Development Environment) is
 > for you. Have a look here:

A new AIDE 1.03 release will be release this week. It includes a real 
installer, new GPS release, Texinfo driver for Adadoc, OpenGL tools and 
examples, and many more. It will be the last pure Windows AIDE Release.

The next one will be GCC 4 bases, multi-platform (windows and linux) and 
cross-platform (windows-x86, linux-x86 and 8 bits Atmel-AVR).

Best from France,

-- 
Stephane Riviere
Oleron Island - France
http://stephane.rochebrune.org
OpenPgp Key <5fd6a1e6> available on the web site above

Re: Latest GNAT version

[Randy]

Ludovic Brenta wrote:
> I like it when people are "afraid [they're] just using Windows" :)
> 
> If you are on Windows, AIDE (Ada Instant Development Environment) is
> for you. Have a look here:
> 
> http://stephane.rochebrune.org/aide/aide.html
> 
> Debian is "the universal operating system", consisting of the Linux
> kernel, GNU libraries and utilities, and 9000 assorted applications.
> See http://www.debian.org
> 

I have an extra drive that I can make into a linux system.  If you don't 
mind helping me set it up I will set my system to dual boot and learn 
more about it.  What do you say?

OT: Installing Debian (was Re: Latest GNAT version)

[Ludovic Brenta]

Randy writes:
> I have an extra drive that I can make into a linux system.  If you
> don't mind helping me set it up I will set my system to dual boot
> and learn more about it.  What do you say?

I don't mind helping, but it may be difficult from a distance.  Most
installation problems are related to hardware support and initial
configuration.  There are also many questions that I cannot answer.

If you are a total newbie and have never installed an operating system
before, I suggest you find the Linux User Group nearest to you[1].
Send them an email, and go to their next scheduled Linux Copy
Party/Install Party with your computer and a couple of blank CD-Rs;
they will be more than happy to assist you and provide answers.  They
might even do the installation for you.

[1] http://www.linux.org/groups/index.html

For example, here in Brussels[2] we have a LCP/IP every 4th sunday of
the month at the university.  The Brussels LUG is quite heavily biased
in favour of Debian; this may or may not be the case of your local
LUG, but do insist on Debian or one of its derivatives if you want to
do Ada.

[2] http://www.bxlug.be

If you are more advanced, feel free to download the net-install CD-ROM
(100 Mb) and install yourself; this is not very difficult if you know
your hardware well and take the time to read the installation manual.
General help with installation and usage of Debian can be obtained in
vast quantities and for free on debian-user@lists.debian.org.

Once you have your base Debian installed, you will want to install the
Ada-related packages.  In Debian, one command does it all: "apt-get".
To install packages X and Y, you type: "apt-get install X Y" on a
command line, and apt-get takes care of the rest.

To begin with, you will most probably want:

gnat             3.15p-12                 The GNU Ada 95 compiler
gnat-doc         3.15p-1                  Documentation for the GNU Ada compiler
gnat-gdb         5.3.gnat.0.0.20030225-8  Ada-aware version of GDB
gnat-gdb-doc     5.3.gnat.0.0.20030225-8  Documentation for the Ada-aware version of GDB
gnat-gps         2.1.0-4                  The GNAT Programming System - advanced IDE for C and Ada
gnat-gps-doc     2.1.0-4                  The GNAT Programming System - documentation
libcharles0-dev  0.0.20050217-1           Data structure library for Ada95 modelled on the C++ STL

For more advanced or specific usage, additional packages available in
Debian include:

adacgi              1.6-6      Ada CGI interface
asis-programs       3.15p-4    Ada Semantic Interface Specification (ASIS) example programs
gnade-dev           1.5.1-2    Develoment files for the GNat Ada Database Environment
gnade-doc           1.5.1-2    Documentation files for the GNat Ada Database Environment
gnat-glade          3.15p-7    Distributed Systems Annex for GNAT (GNU Ada 95 compiler)
gnat-glade-doc      3.15p-4    GNAT Distributed Systems Annex documentation
libadabindx-dev     0.7.2-4    Ada binding to the X Window System and *tif
libadasockets0-dev  1.8.4.7-1  bindings for socket services in Ada
libasis-3.15p-1-dev 3.15p-4    Ada Semantic Interface Specification (ASIS) headers and libraries
libaunit-dev        1.01-1     AUnit, a unit testing framework for Ada
libaws-dev          2.0p-4     Ada Web Server development files
libaws-doc          2.0p-4     Ada Web Server documentation
libflorist-3.15p-1-dev 3.15p-4 POSIX.5 Ada interface to operating system services
libgtkada2-dev      2.4.0-4    Development files for libgtkada2
libgtkada2-doc      2.4.0-4    Documentation for libgtkada2
libopentoken-dev    3.0b-1     OpenToken lexical analysis library for Ada
libtexttools-dev    2.0.3-1    Ada and C++ library for writing console applications
libxmlada1-dev      1.0-2      XML/Ada, a full XML suite for Ada programmers

-- 
Ludovic Brenta.

Re: OT: Installing Debian (was Re: Latest GNAT version)

[Randy]

Hi.  Once I have the image.... do I just copy it to a disk?  Or do I 
need to do something special?

Re: OT: Installing Debian (was Re: Latest GNAT version)

[Ludovic Brenta]

If by "the image" you mean the .iso file, use your usual CD
burning software to write the image to a CD-R. See
http://www.debian.org/CD/faq/

-- 
Ludovic Brenta.

Re: OT: Installing Debian (was Re: Latest GNAT version)

[Steve]

"Ludovic Brenta" <ludovic.brenta@insalien.org> wrote in message 
news:1124177346.199051.63090@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> If by "the image" you mean the .iso file, use your usual CD
> burning software to write the image to a CD-R. See
> http://www.debian.org/CD/faq/
>
> -- 
> Ludovic Brenta.
>
One other note... (also OT)

I found a cheap copy of VMware Workstation a couple of weeks ago on ebay 
(valid license and everything).

IMHO this is the best way to go if you do most of your work on Windows, but 
want to do some work on Linux.

In the past I've put Linux on old computers (since it doesn't have as much 
appetite as Windows), but its a heck of a lot more convenient to run it on a 
virtual machine.

Steve
(The Duck)

Re: OT: Installing Debian (was Re: Latest GNAT version)

[Pascal Obry]

Steve a �crit :
> IMHO this is the best way to go if you do most of your work on Windows, but 
> want to do some work on Linux.

No I think the best is coLinux. This is wonderful. You boot GNU/Linux (I
have a Debian distrib) by just double-clinking on an icon. coLinux (if
you don't know what it is) is a port of the Linux kernel (currently the
2.6 version) on Windows. There is no port of X11 for now (read no
graphic driver) but appart that everything is working fine. For the
graphic part I'm using Cygwin/X to connect to my coLinux machine. What I
like very much in this approach is that you have the Debian GNU/Linux
windows mixed with the Windows ones.

So for those that have to have a Windows machine and want to use
GNU/Linux from time to time it is probably the best approach and coLinux
is Open Source.

See : http://www.colinux.org/

Pascal.

-- 

--|------------------------------------------------------
--| Pascal Obry                           Team-Ada Member
--| 45, rue Gabriel Peri - 78114 Magny Les Hameaux FRANCE
--|------------------------------------------------------
--|              http://www.obry.net
--| "The best way to travel is by means of imagination"
--|
--| gpg --keyserver wwwkeys.pgp.net --recv-key C1082595

Re: OT: Installing Debian (was Re: Latest GNAT version)

[Pascal Obry]

Steve a �crit :
> IMHO this is the best way to go if you do most of your work on Windows, but 
> want to do some work on Linux.

No I think the best is coLinux. This is wonderful. You boot GNU/Linux (I
have a Debian distrib) by just double-clinking on an icon. coLinux (if
you don't know what it is) is a port of the Linux kernel (currently the
2.6 version) on Windows. There is no port of X11 for now (read no
graphic driver) but appart that everything is working fine. For the
graphic part I'm using Cygwin/X to connect to my coLinux machine. What I
like very much in this approach is that you have the Debian GNU/Linux
windows mixed with the Windows ones.

So for those that have to have a Windows machine and want to use
GNU/Linux from time to time it is probably the best approach and coLinux
is Open Source.

See : http://www.colinux.org/

Pascal.

-- 

--|------------------------------------------------------
--| Pascal Obry                           Team-Ada Member
--| 45, rue Gabriel Peri - 78114 Magny Les Hameaux FRANCE
--|------------------------------------------------------
--|              http://www.obry.net
--| "The best way to travel is by means of imagination"
--|
--| gpg --keyserver wwwkeys.pgp.net --recv-key C1082595

Re: OT: Installing Debian (was Re: Latest GNAT version)

[Randy]

Ludovic Brenta wrote:
> If by "the image" you mean the .iso file, use your usual CD
> burning software to write the image to a CD-R. See
> http://www.debian.org/CD/faq/
> 
  OK i have all 14 cd's now.  I started to install and all it looked at 
was the first cd and I have a dos prompt to look at.....site is down or 
something i can't get to it for instructions.
Kinda lost now :)

Re: OT: Installing Debian (was Re: Latest GNAT version)

[Preben Randhol]

In article <15dPe.18613$g47.8770@trnddc07>, Randy wrote:
>Ludovic Brenta wrote:
>> If by "the image" you mean the .iso file, use your usual CD
>> burning software to write the image to a CD-R. See
>> http://www.debian.org/CD/faq/
>> 
>  OK i have all 14 cd's now.  I started to install and all it looked at 
>was the first cd and I have a dos prompt to look at.....site is down or 
>something i can't get to it for instructions.
>Kinda lost now :)

I recommend reading: http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/installmanual

However, if you haven't had any linux/unix experience I would suggest
you install Ubuntu Linux in stead. Unbuntu is based on Debian but they have
made the installation/desktop more beginner-friendly(*). You can install
debian packages afterwards so you need not worry about missing out on
the Ada packages made for Debian.

I myself use Debian, but I have used Linux since 1994-95.

Link for Ubuntu: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/

HTH

Preben

(*) I don't say user-friendly because this is a misleading term. There
is not *one* type of user and as experience, knowledge, interests vary
what is user-friendly really is dependent on which user one talk about
:-)

Re: OT: Installing Debian (was Re: Latest GNAT version)

[Ludovic Brenta]

Randy wrote:
> OK i have all 14 cd's now.

Wow, you took the long, hard route.  The quick route was to burn only
the net-install CD-ROM (180 Mb).  But having all 14 CD-ROMs allows you
to install without a network connection, and this may be a requirement
for you.

> I started to install and all it looked at was the first cd and I
> have a dos prompt to look at.....site is down or something i can't
> get to it for instructions.  Kinda lost now :)

If you only have one computer, I suggest you print the relevant parts
of the installation manual so you can read it while installing.

Preben Randhol wrote:
> However, if you haven't had any linux/unix experience I would
> suggest you install Ubuntu Linux in stead.

This would be a last resort; yet more CD-ROMs to burn.  The Debian
installer in Sarge is quite easy to use; this is my experience from
past Linux Copy/Install Parties.  Of course, Preben, you probably
never used it.  One of the niceties of Debian is that you only ever
install it once; instead, you just "apt-get upgrade" from release to
relase.

As this is OT for comp.lang.ada, please followup to
debian-boot@lists.debian.org

-- 
Ludovic Brenta.

Re: OT: Installing Debian (was Re: Latest GNAT version)

[Preben Randhol]

Ludovic Brenta wrote:
>
>This would be a last resort; yet more CD-ROMs to burn.  The Debian
>installer in Sarge is quite easy to use; this is my experience from
>past Linux Copy/Install Parties.  Of course, Preben, you probably
>never used it.  One of the niceties of Debian is that you only ever
>install it once; instead, you just "apt-get upgrade" from release to
>relase.

This is true, but I did a clean install after Debian released the last
stable just now. I didn't need to as you say, but I wanted to cleanup a
bit my system as I have been testing too many different programs and
also to document the customisations I do. When I install Debian on other
computers it is nice to be able to customise them in 15 min and not 15
hours because one has forgotten what one did 3 years ago when setting up
a specific server. Another point is that configuration files have a
tendency to evolve and while one do not usually need to do any manual
changes one can miss out on new features if one doesn't pay attention.
So after 3-4 years of upgrading I found it was time to do a clean
install :-)

Anyway the Debian installer is very good and I like that it isn't
graphical but text-based.

Preben

Re: OT: Installing Debian (was Re: Latest GNAT version)

[Larry Kilgallen]

In article <1124960975.569806.188350@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "Ludovic Brenta" <ludovic.brenta@insalien.org> writes:
> Randy wrote:
>> OK i have all 14 cd's now.
> 
> Wow, you took the long, hard route.  The quick route was to burn only
> the net-install CD-ROM (180 Mb).  But having all 14 CD-ROMs allows you
> to install without a network connection, and this may be a requirement
> for you.

Another possible requirement would be the ability to install the
exact same tool in the future without depending on the continued
existence of some web site.

Re: OT: Installing Debian (was Re: Latest GNAT version)

[Ed Falis]

Another good (and easy to use) distribution based on Debian is Libranet  
(www.libranet.com).  Their last but one release can be downloaded at no  
charge.  The latest is awesome and inexpensive.

- Ed

Re: OT: Installing Debian (was Re: Latest GNAT version)

[Ludovic Brenta]

At yesterday's Linux Copy Party, I installed Debian on yet another IBM
ThinkPad (a refurbished T20) using my trusted Sarge net-install
CD-ROM.  No problems whatsoever.  The user, who was migrating from
Fedora Core, didn't understand why the Debian installer has such a
reputation of being difficult to use.  Just because it's in text mode
doesn't mean it's "for experts".

Personally, I have never really understood the need for derivatives of
Debian.  This is perhaps a matter of taste.

-- 
Ludovic Brenta.

Re: OT: Installing Debian (was Re: Latest GNAT version)

[Preben Randhol]

Ludovic Brenta wrote:
>At yesterday's Linux Copy Party, I installed Debian on yet another IBM
>ThinkPad (a refurbished T20) using my trusted Sarge net-install
>CD-ROM.  No problems whatsoever.  The user, who was migrating from
>Fedora Core, didn't understand why the Debian installer has such a
>reputation of being difficult to use.  Just because it's in text mode
>doesn't mean it's "for experts".

No, it is the aftermath I'm thinking of... Debian lacks something like
YAST.

>Personally, I have never really understood the need for derivatives of
>Debian.  This is perhaps a matter of taste.

I like the derivatives because they use the same foundation (the package
system) but they target different areas. Also Debian makes specialised
distros.

Default Debian installation of X, for example, assumes that the
machine is a server. You have to handedit the gdm config file (if you
use gdm) to get it to stop asking for root password when shutting down
and restarting the machine. I have suggested that one should be able to
choose between server setup and desktop setup in debconf, but I don't
think it was thought as a good idea at the time. Perhaps I should
suggest it agian... The default setup is also quite basic and
not so much eye-candy which is good from a server perspective, but less
so from a desktop user's perspective. So I think it is healthy that there
are derivatives specialising in different areas. I mean I find that XFCE
is a much better desktop than gnome (I have limited experience with KDE so
won't compare this) and that it is nice that the XFCE people are
"competing" with gnome for the desktop and not "giving up"...

Preben

Re: Latest GNAT version

[Kent Paul Dolan]

"Ludovic Brenta" <ludovic.brenta@insalien.org> wrote:

> The current version is Ada 95, and there are several compilers
> available; see http://www.adaic.com for a list of compilers.

Thanks for that, I'd wasted time looking at the AdaCore site,
and at the old NYU ftp site.

Since that's the 3.15p release, postmarked 2002, I take it the
concept of a freely downloadable (and GPLed, the www.gnat.com
site is pretty obvious about no longer supporting the GPL, in
their writeup on their libraries) Ada compiler had died a quiet
death?

I just downloaded what was there, it is perhaps time for me to
get interested a bit in Ada again, thus my (likely unwelcome)
return here after long absence.

xanthian, of the huge 1/4th terabyte HD, downloading the world.


-- 
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

Re: Latest GNAT version

[Britt Snodgrass]

Kent Paul Dolan wrote:
> "Ludovic Brenta" <ludovic.brenta@insalien.org> wrote:
>
> > The current version is Ada 95, and there are several compilers
> > available; see http://www.adaic.com for a list of compilers.
>
> Thanks for that, I'd wasted time looking at the AdaCore site,
> and at the old NYU ftp site.
>
> Since that's the 3.15p release, postmarked 2002, I take it the
> concept of a freely downloadable (and GPLed, the www.gnat.com
> site is pretty obvious about no longer supporting the GPL, in
> their writeup on their libraries) Ada compiler had died a quiet
> death?
>

AdaCore doesn't package public versions of GNAT anymore but newer
versions are available as part of GCC. For Microsoft Windows, a
precompiled version of GNAT based on GCC 3.4.4 is available as part of
MinGW 4.1.0 (see http://www.mingw.org/download.shtml).

Britt

Re: Latest GNAT version

[Björn Persson]

Ludovic Brenta wrote:
> No. AdaCore have not made a formal "p" release sice 3.15p, but they
> seem to think that GCC 3.4 and 4.0 are good enough. Which is true,
> except that these versions don't support ASIS or the distributed
> systems annex GLADE.
> 
> If enough people politely ask for a newer "p" release with ASIS and
> GLADE, perhaps they will listen?  I for one would very much like to
> transition Ada in Debian to GCC 4.0, which will be the system compiler
> for the next stable release, codenamed "etch".

If ASIS and GLADE could be lifted out from this hypothetical new "p" 
release and used with GCC 4.x releases without a lot of patching � good. 
Otherwise I think it would be better � at least for us free software 
users � if ASIS and GLADE could be kept in sync with GCC, because it 
would be easier to get them into OS distributions that way.

Redhat provides the Ada part of GCC in Fedora Core, but hardly any other 
Ada packages. The situation seems to be similar with Suse. I've been 
thinking that maybe I should learn RPM and make some Ada packages for 
Fedora Extras. ASIS would be a candidate but it would have to work with 
the GCC release selected for each release of Fedora Core.

It's a great advantage to C, Perl, Python and other languages that they 
are so readily available in the free Unixoids. A complete development 
environment with lots of libraries can be installed with a single 
command, or is even installed by default. I want Ada to have the same 
advantage, and not just in Debian but in other distributions too. ASIS 
is a vital part. Even Gnat appears incomplete when the tools that depend 
on ASIS are missing. It would therefore be very good if there were an 
ASIS release that worked with recent GCC releases. (I suppose GLADE 
would also be good to have, although I personally don't have a use for it.)

-- 
Bj�rn Persson                              PGP key A88682FD
                    omb jor ers @sv ge.
                    r o.b n.p son eri nu

Re: Latest GNAT version

[Ludovic Brenta]

Björn Persson <spam-away@nowhere.nil> writes:
> If ASIS and GLADE could be lifted out from this hypothetical new "p"
> release and used with GCC 4.x releases without a lot of patching
> . good. Otherwise I think it would be better . at least for us
> free software users . if ASIS and GLADE could be kept in sync
> with GCC, because it would be easier to get them into OS
> distributions that way.

I agree wholeheartedly.  The latest GNAT Pro 5.03 appears to be based
on GCC 3.4; if GNAT Pro comes with ASIS and GLADE, and if AdaCore made
a "p" release based on it, what a wonderful world this would be :)

> Redhat provides the Ada part of GCC in Fedora Core, but hardly any
> other Ada packages. The situation seems to be similar with
> Suse. I've been thinking that maybe I should learn RPM and make some
> Ada packages for Fedora Extras. ASIS would be a candidate but it
> would have to work with the GCC release selected for each release of
> Fedora Core.

To my knowledge, Debian is the only distribution that has a complete
Ada development environment, including a compiler, ASIS, GLADE,
several libraries, GPS, Ada-aware GDB, and a unifying policy to hold
them together.  This kind of thing takes a lot of work to achieve.  I
respect your desire to enhance Fedora or SuSE with such an
environment, but it would be easier for you to join me in Debian.
I've been asking for co-maintainers for a bout a year now.

> It's a great advantage to C, Perl, Python and other languages that
> they are so readily available in the free Unixoids. A complete
> development environment with lots of libraries can be installed with
> a single command, or is even installed by default. I want Ada to
> have the same advantage, and not just in Debian but in other
> distributions too. ASIS is a vital part. Even Gnat appears
> incomplete when the tools that depend on ASIS are missing. It would
> therefore be very good if there were an ASIS release that worked
> with recent GCC releases. (I suppose GLADE would also be good to
> have, although I personally don't have a use for it.)

It looks like GLADE is being replaced by PolyORB.  There have been
patches applied in GCC (>= 3.4) that add special compiler support for
it in GCC.  So, if Annex E is implemented by PolyORB instead of GLADE,
this is find by me.

I do hope that someone at AdaCore is listening :)

-- 
Ludovic Brenta.

Re: Latest GNAT version

[Björn Persson]

Ludovic Brenta wrote:
> I respect your desire to enhance Fedora or SuSE with such an
> environment, but it would be easier for you to join me in Debian.
> I've been asking for co-maintainers for a bout a year now.

I've been thinking about that too, but it's Fedora I use. I admire the 
Debian project, but I think Fedora's compromise of stability and new 
features and its secure package installation is right for me. I also 
think I'd promote Ada better by packaging for Fedora, but that's just a 
guess of course.

> It looks like GLADE is being replaced by PolyORB.  There have been
> patches applied in GCC (>= 3.4) that add special compiler support for
> it in GCC.  So, if Annex E is implemented by PolyORB instead of GLADE,
> this is find by me.

That's fine with me too. I'll leave it to those who do distributed 
programming to have opinions on that.

-- 
Björn Persson                              PGP key A88682FD
                    omb jor ers @sv ge.
                    r o.b n.p son eri nu

Re: Latest GNAT version

[Willy Jacobs]

Ludovic Brenta wrote:
> Björn Persson <spam-away@nowhere.nil> writes:

> I agree wholeheartedly.  The latest GNAT Pro 5.03 appears to be based
> on GCC 3.4; if GNAT Pro comes with ASIS and GLADE, and if AdaCore made
> a "p" release based on it, what a wonderful world this would be :)

Actually GNAT Pro 5.03 is based on:
- gcc-3_4-branch-041222020316 (without the Ada source tree)
- a lot of patches on this source tree
- ACT's own Ada source tree (which differs on many places with the 
public available Ada source tree)

-- 
--- willy

Re: Latest GNAT version

[Anders Wirzenius]

Ludovic Brenta <ludovic.brenta@tiscali.be> writes:

> To my knowledge, Debian is the only distribution that has a complete
> Ada development environment, including a compiler, ASIS, GLADE,
> several libraries, GPS, Ada-aware GDB, and a unifying policy to hold
> them together.  This kind of thing takes a lot of work to achieve.  I

Debian stable or testing (or what)?

-- 
Anders

Re: Latest GNAT version

[Jacob Sparre Andersen]

Anders Wirzenius wrote:
> Ludovic Brenta <ludovic.brenta@tiscali.be> writes:

> > To my knowledge, Debian is the only distribution that has a
> > complete Ada development environment, including a compiler, ASIS,
> > GLADE, several libraries, GPS, Ada-aware GDB, and a unifying
> > policy to hold them together.  This kind of thing takes a lot of
> > work to achieve.  I
> 
> Debian stable or testing (or what)?

Both Debian/stable and Debian/unstable has a complete Ada development
environment.  I suppose the same is true for Debian/testing, but I
haven't got a machine running that version.

Jacob
-- 
�In Ada you model the problem space, not the solution space.�
                                                     -- Robert I. Eachus

Latest GNAT version

[John Zouck]

I can't find a reference on ACT's web site to where they 
distribute GNAT. I assume they are still providing free builds
of the compiler suite. I searched around and found version 3.15p
on the NYU web site, and that is the latest I see anywhere.

Anyone know of a newer version? And, can anyone comment on the
GPS development environment?

Re: Latest GNAT version

[Björn Persson]

John Zouck wrote:

> I can't find a reference on ACT's web site to where they 
> distribute GNAT.

Me neither, but it's here:

http://libre.act-europe.fr/GNAT/

> I searched around and found version 3.15p 
> on the NYU web site, and that is the latest I see anywhere.
> 
> Anyone know of a newer version?

That's still the latest public release from Adacore, but the Gnat that 
is part of GCC 3.4 has some later improvements. On the other hand it 
also lacks some of the surrounding tools.

http://gcc.gnu.org/

> And, can anyone comment on the 
> GPS development environment?

Its feature set is great, but in the latest public release it's still 
annoyingly buggy, and some of the features aren't supported by the 
public releases of Gnat. Particularly non-English letters seem to screw 
up almost everything in GPS. If only those problems get sorted out it 
will in my opinion be a very nice development environment.

-- 
Björn Persson                              PGP key A88682FD
                    omb jor ers @sv ge.
                    r o.b n.p son eri nu

Re: Latest GNAT version

[Hyman Rosen]

Bj�rn Persson wrote:
>> And, can anyone comment on the GPS development environment?
> 
> Its feature set is great, but in the latest public release it's still 
> annoyingly buggy, and some of the features aren't supported by the 
> public releases of Gnat. Particularly non-English letters seem to screw 
> up almost everything in GPS. If only those problems get sorted out it 
> will in my opinion be a very nice development environment.

It occurs to me that if GPS were written in C++ and had these kinds
of problems, you guys would eat it alive.

Re: Latest GNAT version

[Florian Weimer]

* Hyman Rosen:

> It occurs to me that if GPS were written in C++ and had these kinds
> of problems, you guys would eat it alive.

Probably true. 8-)

In fact, one nice aspect of C++ is that most of the real experts
aren't apparent zealots.  Maybe it helps if you don't have to justify
your choice of programming language at every corner.

Re: Latest GNAT version

[Hyman Rosen]

Florian Weimer wrote:
> In fact, one nice aspect of C++ is that most of the real experts
> aren't apparent zealots.

You haven't been following the garbage collection discussion on
the C++ newsgroups, then? :-)

Re: Latest GNAT version

[Pascal Obry]

Hyman Rosen <hyrosen@mail.com> writes:

> It occurs to me that if GPS were written in C++ and had these kinds
> of problems, you guys would eat it alive.

And that's almost the case :) GPS is based on GtkAda, which is based on GTK+
which is written in C++! And yes most of the problems come from this layer (at
least on Windows)... Font problems is one example.

Pascal.

-- 

--|------------------------------------------------------
--| Pascal Obry                           Team-Ada Member
--| 45, rue Gabriel Peri - 78114 Magny Les Hameaux FRANCE
--|------------------------------------------------------
--|              http://www.obry.org
--| "The best way to travel is by means of imagination"
--|
--| gpg --keyserver wwwkeys.pgp.net --recv-key C1082595

Re: Latest GNAT version

[Jeff C,]

"Pascal Obry" <obry@act-europe.fr> wrote in message 
news:ubrgrkxed.fsf@act-europe.fr...
>
> Hyman Rosen <hyrosen@mail.com> writes:
>
>> It occurs to me that if GPS were written in C++ and had these kinds
>> of problems, you guys would eat it alive.
>
> And that's almost the case :) GPS is based on GtkAda, which is based on 
> GTK+
> which is written in C++! And yes most of the problems come from this layer 
> (at
> least on Windows)... Font problems is one example.
>
> Pascal.
>
> --

Actually Gtk+ is written in C, not C++.

Re: Latest GNAT version

[Pylinius]

Hyman Rosen wrote:
> Bj�rn Persson wrote:
> 
>>> And, can anyone comment on the GPS development environment?
>>
>>
>> Its feature set is great, but in the latest public release it's still 
>> annoyingly buggy, and some of the features aren't supported by the 
>> public releases of Gnat. Particularly non-English letters seem to 
>> screw up almost everything in GPS. If only those problems get sorted 
>> out it will in my opinion be a very nice development environment.
> 
> 
> It occurs to me that if GPS were written in C++ and had these kinds
> of problems, you guys would eat it alive.

Fortunately, it doesn't have problems.

That was a joke. Every app has problems.

But seriously, it doesn't have problems.