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From: Robert A Duff <bobduff@shell01.TheWorld.com>
Subject: Re: {Pre,Post}conditions and side effects
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2014 20:03:37 -0500
Date: 2014-12-23T20:03:37-05:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <wccegrpq2om.fsf@shell01.TheWorld.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: alpine.CYG.2.11.1412231747100.4196@WIL414CHAPIN.vtc.vsc.edu

Peter Chapin <PChapin@vtc.vsc.edu> writes:

> I think, actually, it is fairly common for assertions to require
> "gazillions" of CPU cycles. In fact, it is easy to come up with examples
> where the pre- and postconditions take far longer to execute than the
> subprogram to which they are attached.
>
> A simple example that I love because it is so simple yet so telling is
> binary search of an array. A reasonable precondition is that the array
> it is given is sorted. It might look like
>
>     Pre => (for all I in A'First .. A'Last - 1 => (A(I) <= A(I + 1)))
>
> This takes O(n) time to evaluate. Yet binary search is an O(log(n))
> algorithm. For large arrays the precondition might take many thousands
> or even millions of times longer to execute than the subprogram itself.
>
> I don't think there is anything particularly unusual about this
> example. Here's another case: suppose you had a procedure that added an
> item to some kind of balanced binary tree. The postcondition might
> assert that the tree is still balanced in whatever sense is
> appropriate... probably an O(n) operation. Yet the insertion procedure
> is probably O(log(n)). It's easy to imagine many examples.

Yes, all that's true.  But those would be better as
predicates/invariants instead of preconditions.  For ex., if you know
Sort produces a sorted array, and Binary_Search takes a sorted array,
you don't have to check for sorted-ness on entry to Binary_Search if
you've got a Sorted_Array.

But note that your "Pre" above is a good example of what I was saying in
a somewhat-unrelated post in this thread:  It is shorter and simpler
than doing a sort using some efficient sorting algorithm.

> For this reason I assume that in most cases programs must be deployed
> with assertions disabled or else there is little chance the program will
> be able to meet its performance goals.

Yes, or at least SOME assertions disabled.

I like to say, "If you don't need to disable assertions, then you don't
have enough assertions".  It's a silly sound bite that is not always
true, but there's a grain of truth in it.

>... Thus putting anything resembling
> essential program logic in an assertion is, of course, just
> wrong.

Yes.

>... Forbidding assertions with side effects might be nice, but the
> programmer still has to be careful with them anyway.

Yes.

-- Bob

  reply	other threads:[~2014-12-24  1:03 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 107+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2014-12-22 16:22 {Pre,Post}conditions and side effects Jean François Martinez
2014-12-22 17:18 ` Brad Moore
2014-12-23  8:22   ` Jean François Martinez
2014-12-23 17:05     ` Robert A Duff
2014-12-23 21:09       ` Jean François Martinez
2014-12-23 21:35         ` Robert A Duff
2014-12-23 23:02         ` Peter Chapin
2014-12-24  1:03           ` Robert A Duff [this message]
2015-04-24  8:59             ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2015-04-24  9:18               ` J-P. Rosen
2015-04-24 23:39                 ` Randy Brukardt
2015-04-24 12:10               ` G.B.
2015-04-24 14:40                 ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2015-04-24 16:29                   ` G.B.
2015-04-24 23:46                   ` Randy Brukardt
2015-04-24 22:26               ` Peter Chapin
2015-04-25  0:13                 ` Randy Brukardt
2015-04-25  1:01                   ` Peter Chapin
2015-04-25  5:51                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-04-25  0:31               ` Bob Duff
2015-04-25 12:08                 ` vincent.diemunsch
2015-04-25 16:37                   ` Georg Bauhaus
2015-05-06 21:07                   ` Randy Brukardt
2015-05-06 22:10                     ` Paul Rubin
2015-05-07  9:01                     ` Georg Bauhaus
2015-05-07  9:12                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-05-07  9:29                         ` Georg Bauhaus
2015-05-07  9:31                           ` Georg Bauhaus
2015-05-07 18:32                         ` Randy Brukardt
2015-05-08  7:50                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-05-08 23:31                             ` Randy Brukardt
2015-05-09  6:16                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-05-12  0:28                                 ` Randy Brukardt
2015-05-12  8:04                                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-05-07 10:06                     ` Stefan.Lucks
2015-05-07 12:16                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-05-07 18:00                         ` Stefan.Lucks
2015-05-07 19:01                           ` Randy Brukardt
2015-05-07 19:29                             ` Niklas Holsti
2015-05-08 23:16                               ` Randy Brukardt
2015-05-09  5:18                                 ` Niklas Holsti
2015-05-12  0:15                                   ` Randy Brukardt
2015-05-07 19:55                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-05-08 23:24                               ` Randy Brukardt
2015-05-09  5:47                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-05-07 18:52                       ` Randy Brukardt
2015-05-07 19:40                         ` Stefan.Lucks
2015-05-08  7:28                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-05-08 22:58                             ` Randy Brukardt
2015-05-08 22:52                           ` Randy Brukardt
2015-05-09  0:14                             ` Paul Rubin
2015-05-12  0:30                               ` Randy Brukardt
2015-05-12 18:10                                 ` Paul Rubin
2015-05-12 22:01                                   ` Randy Brukardt
2015-05-13  9:35                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-05-13 11:53                                       ` G.B.
2015-05-13 12:47                                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-05-13 14:06                                           ` G.B.
2015-05-13 14:21                                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-05-13 16:33                                               ` G.B.
2015-05-13 19:15                                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-05-14  1:36                                                   ` Randy Brukardt
2015-05-14  7:10                                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-05-14  1:32                                         ` Randy Brukardt
2015-05-14  7:19                                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-05-12  0:36                               ` Randy Brukardt
2015-05-11 10:35                             ` Stefan.Lucks
2015-05-11 21:49                               ` vincent.diemunsch
2015-05-11 22:49                                 ` Peter Chapin
2015-05-12  4:49                                   ` vincent.diemunsch
2015-05-12 23:25                                     ` Peter Chapin
2015-05-13  9:00                                       ` vincent.diemunsch
2015-05-12  4:42                                 ` vincent.diemunsch
2015-05-12 14:53                                   ` johnscpg
2015-05-13  9:14                                     ` vincent.diemunsch
2015-05-12  1:03                               ` Randy Brukardt
2015-05-12  7:21                                 ` Georg Bauhaus
2015-05-12 22:08                                   ` Randy Brukardt
2015-05-12  8:02                                 ` Georg Bauhaus
2015-05-12 22:14                                   ` Randy Brukardt
2015-05-12  8:37                                 ` Stefan.Lucks
2015-05-12 11:25                                   ` Stefan.Lucks
2015-05-12 18:44                                     ` Paul Rubin
2015-05-12 20:52                                       ` Stefan.Lucks
2015-05-18  9:49                                     ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2015-05-18 12:10                                       ` Stefan.Lucks
2015-05-19  7:46                                         ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2015-06-09  7:55                                           ` Stefan.Lucks
2015-06-09 12:02                                             ` G.B.
2015-06-09 17:16                                               ` Stefan.Lucks
2015-05-12 18:39                                   ` Paul Rubin
2015-05-12 20:51                                     ` Stefan.Lucks
2015-05-12 14:21                                 ` Bob Duff
2015-05-12 22:37                                   ` Randy Brukardt
2015-05-13  6:58                                     ` Georg Bauhaus
2015-05-14  1:21                                       ` Randy Brukardt
2015-05-07 21:29                         ` Georg Bauhaus
2015-05-08 23:11                           ` Randy Brukardt
2015-05-08 23:19                             ` tmoran
2014-12-23 21:53   ` Florian Weimer
2014-12-24 11:41     ` Brad Moore
2014-12-22 19:38 ` sbelmont700
2014-12-22 19:59   ` Brad Moore
2014-12-22 23:46   ` Randy Brukardt
2014-12-23 10:41   ` Georg Bauhaus
2014-12-22 23:32 ` Randy Brukardt
2015-04-24 17:59   ` Shark8
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