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From: Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen <ohk@maestro.clustra.com>
Subject: Re: Ada vs C++ vs Java
Date: 1999/02/11
Date: 1999-02-11T00:00:00+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <umqsocdjin4.fsf@maestro.clustra.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 79s23i$ena$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com

robert_dewar@my-dejanews.com writes:

> In article <umq679aegyo.fsf@maestro.clustra.com>,
>   Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen <ohk@maestro.clustra.com> wrote:
> >
> > To me this still looks like an argument against
> > standardization of functions. If you don't get any
> > advantages by standardization, why bother?
> 
> VERY muddled thinking. Your argument goes like this
> 
>   Dewar does not think sort should be standardized.
> 
>   Sort is a function
> 
>   Therefore Dewar does not think functions should be
>   standardized.

I am glad to hear that you have nothing against standardization of
functions in general. However, I assumed that the original poster
used sort as an *example* of how easy it is to use the standard C++
library.

I assume we then agree that C++ with its new standard library is
better than C++ without the same library, or am I jumping to
conclusions again?

> 
> Well, a classical example of a faulty syllogism. I will
> add it to my set of such examples for teaching!
> 

Always glad to be of service.

> In fact of course I think it is very important to
> standardize library functions. I think for example that
> it is horrible that C++ has no standardized functions for
> dealing with concurrency or with interfacing to other
> languages.
> 

There are indeed many horrible aspects of the C++ language.
But there are thread libraries freely available. It should not matter
that they are not part of the standard, right? :-)

> Of course I could play the game of writing a five line
> Ada program that cannot be duplicated in standard C++ using
> either of these features, but that would prove nothing of
> itself.
> 
> Everyone agrees that a certain minimum set of libraries
> should be part of a language standard. The issue for a
> particular functionality here is what status it should
> have:
> 
>    1. Be part of the primary standard
>    2. Be part of a secondary standard
>    3. Not be standardized
> 
> No one is so foolish as to think that every possible
> function should be standardized. I do not make the mistake
> of assuming that since Ole-Hjalmar thinks that sorting
> should be in category 1, it means that he thinks this!
> 
> So the issue is not one of general principles here AT ALL.
> It is a detailed discussion of which category a particular
> functionality falls into.

I never once mentioned sort. What I was talking about should be clear
from the following:

<start of quote>
robert_dewar@my-dejanews.com writes:

> In article <umqbtj9m636.fsf@maestro.clustra.com>,
>   Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen <ohk@maestro.clustra.com> wrote:
> > But the point you seem to be missing is that this libarry
> > now is a *standard* part of C++.
> 
> 
> Yes, and the sort operator is a part of the standard
> language in the case of APL.
> 
> So if C++ is better than Ada because the standard library
> has a sort built in, and therefore allows a shorter sorting
> routine, by the same argument APL must be even better than
> C++, since the sorting is even more built in, and we can
> get an even shorter sorting routine.
> 
> 
> -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
> http://www.dejanews.com/       Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own    

Yes. And from this I infer that you think that any standardization of
libraries, or even built-in functions are a waste of time?
No, the point is that C++ has recently take a major step forward with
the acceptance of a standard library which is rather comprehensive and
has a sound foundation. Arguing that this is not needed in Ada is not
going to convince anyone to use Ada.

<end of quote>

> 
> The C++ and Ada standards both made decisions in this area,
> quite different sets of decisions, which leave different
> sets of functionality in the standard. I happen to think
> that in general Ada made the better set of choices here,
> but general claims like this are not really usefull
> arguable anyway, so may as well be left moot.
>

Yes, certainly which set of functions to include depends on what kind
of applications you foresee.

> 
> What is productive is to argue about specific cases.
> The interesting thing is that Ole-Hjalmar in this exchange
> has not given even a single reason why sort in particular
> should be standardized.
> 

No. Why should I? I was not discussing sort at all. But if you want an
argument, I'll give you one: For the majority of C++ applications it
does not matter how sort is implemented, as long as it's a reasonable
algorithm. If it *does* matter, write your own, or use another library
which includes precisely the sort you need. But having a sort
available is very nice if it works with the data structures you are using.

> Merely showing an example that says
> 
> 1) if X is standardized, then we will be able to write a
> short standard program performing function X
> 
> is not any kind of argument at all, you might equally well
> argue for the inclusion of a special function for
> converting HTML files to postscript ("look how short this
> standard program for converting HTML to postscript is, bet
> you can't do that in language X!")
> 

No. I have argued for the standardization of a richer set of generally
useful functions and data structures which fit together. The STL
library is an example of such a set. I also never argued that C++ is
better than Ada.

> On the other hand, some cogent arguments for NOT
> standardizing sort have been presented. Certainly no one
> writing Ada programs has to rewrite a sort algorithm from
> scratch. There is a large library of standard sort routines
> to choose from, and you choose the one that fits your needs
> best.
> 

Yes. But are those libraries always available on all platforms? If
they are not, it becomes tempting to write your own portable version,
something I would rather avoid. Also, does this library sort work with
my container classes, which I have included from another library?

> 
> -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
> http://www.dejanews.com/       Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own    

-- 
E pluribus Unix




  parent reply	other threads:[~1999-02-11  0:00 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 450+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
1999-01-12  0:00 Ada vs C++ vs Java Leszek Sczaniecki
1999-01-13  0:00 ` Tucker Taft
1999-01-14  0:00   ` Emil Rojas
1999-01-13  0:00 ` Herman
1999-01-13  0:00   ` Marin David Condic
1999-01-15  0:00     ` David R. Conrad
1999-01-15  0:00       ` robert_dewar
1999-01-16  0:00         ` Michael J. Tobler
1999-01-15  0:00           ` Al Christians
1999-01-16  0:00             ` robert_dewar
1999-01-16  0:00             ` Michael J. Tobler
1999-01-16  0:00               ` robert_dewar
1999-01-16  0:00           ` robert_dewar
1999-01-16  0:00         ` Bob Munck
1999-01-24  0:00         ` COBOL/Top-Down prog'g (was: Ada vs C++ vs Java) Nick Roberts
1999-01-25  0:00           ` robert_dewar
1999-01-22  0:00     ` Ada vs C++ vs Java Patrick Wibbeler
1999-01-26  0:00       ` Marin David Condic
1999-01-27  0:00         ` Peter Amey
1999-01-29  0:00         ` P.S. Norby
1999-01-26  0:00       ` Ken
1999-01-27  0:00         ` Scott Johnson
1999-01-27  0:00       ` Robert Garskof
1999-01-27  0:00         ` Jay O'Connor
1999-01-28  0:00           ` Marin David Condic
1999-01-28  0:00             ` Joshua fit de wall
1999-01-29  0:00               ` Herman
1999-01-31  0:00             ` Ruth Ivimey-Cook
1999-01-31  0:00               ` him/her: was: " robert_dewar
1999-01-13  0:00 ` Peter Amey
1999-01-13  0:00   ` Marin David Condic
1999-01-14  0:00     ` Ola Liljedahl
1999-01-14  0:00       ` Marin David Condic
1999-01-15  0:00         ` Ola Liljedahl
1999-01-15  0:00           ` Marin David Condic
1999-01-14  0:00     ` Chris Gray
1999-01-14  0:00       ` Tom Maier
1999-01-21  0:00         ` Brent A Ellingson
1999-01-14  0:00   ` Crazy Pete
1999-01-15  0:00     ` Markus Kuhn
1999-01-15  0:00       ` Peter
1999-01-15  0:00         ` David C. Hoos, Sr.
1999-01-15  0:00         ` Larry Kilgallen
1999-01-16  0:00         ` Tucker Taft
1999-01-13  0:00 ` Bob Cousins
1999-01-14  0:00   ` jim.hyslop
1999-01-15  0:00     ` robert_dewar
1999-01-14  0:00   ` dennison
1999-01-13  0:00 ` Marin David Condic
1999-01-13  0:00   ` Peter
1999-01-14  0:00     ` Michael J. Tobler
1999-01-15  0:00       ` robert_dewar
1999-01-15  0:00       ` Larry Kilgallen
1999-01-15  0:00       ` dewar
1999-01-14  0:00     ` dennison
1999-01-14  0:00     ` Peter Sch�ller
1999-01-13  0:00   ` Richard Krehbiel
1999-01-13  0:00     ` Dave Hansen
1999-01-13  0:00     ` Marin David Condic
1999-01-14  0:00     ` dennison
1999-01-15  0:00       ` dewar
1999-01-15  0:00         ` dennison
1999-01-13  0:00   ` David Gillon
1999-01-24  0:00     ` Y2.1K (was: Ada vs C++ vs Java) Nick Roberts
1999-02-05  0:00       ` Robert A Duff
1999-02-05  0:00         ` robert_dewar
1999-01-13  0:00 ` Ada vs C++ vs Java Corvus
1999-01-13  0:00   ` Herman
1999-01-13  0:00     ` Craig Garrett
1999-01-13  0:00       ` Michael Trausch
1999-01-14  0:00         ` Martijn Lievaart
1999-01-14  0:00           ` Michael J. Tobler
1999-01-16  0:00         ` Matthew Heaney
1999-01-16  0:00       ` Matthew Heaney
1999-01-16  0:00         ` Craig Garrett
1999-01-14  0:00     ` Jeff Carter
1999-01-15  0:00       ` dewar
1999-01-16  0:00       ` Matthew Heaney
1999-01-18  0:00         ` dennison
1999-01-18  0:00           ` robert_dewar
1999-01-24  0:00         ` Nick Roberts
1999-01-20  0:00       ` Peter Flynn
     [not found]   ` <01be3f41$c1205ba0$5704fbd1@longslide>
1999-01-14  0:00     ` Tom Maier
1999-01-19  0:00       ` Vladyslav Kosulin
1999-01-14  0:00     ` Thaddeus L. Olczyk
1999-01-17  0:00       ` Craig Garrett
1999-01-20  0:00         ` Gerry Quinn
1999-01-13  0:00 ` Michael J. Tobler
1999-01-22  0:00   ` Tov Are Jacobsen
1999-01-13  0:00 ` John Woodruff
1999-01-13  0:00 ` dennison
1999-01-13  0:00 ` Erik Funkenbusch
1999-01-13  0:00   ` Peter
1999-01-13  0:00     ` Corvus
1999-01-13  0:00   ` Ralph Cook
1999-01-13  0:00     ` Bob Munck
1999-01-13  0:00     ` Erik Funkenbusch
1999-01-14  0:00     ` Dave Whipp
1999-01-13  0:00   ` Marin David Condic
1999-01-14  0:00     ` Ken Keys
1999-01-14  0:00       ` John Woodruff
1999-01-15  0:00         ` Ken Keys
1999-01-15  0:00           ` Marc A. Criley
1999-01-15  0:00           ` dennison
1999-01-18  0:00           ` Marin David Condic
1999-01-14  0:00       ` Marin David Condic
1999-01-15  0:00         ` Ken Keys
1999-01-15  0:00           ` dennison
1999-01-15  0:00           ` dennison
1999-01-18  0:00           ` Marin David Condic
1999-01-19  0:00             ` Matthew Heaney
1999-01-19  0:00               ` Marin David Condic
1999-01-15  0:00       ` dennison
1999-01-14  0:00   ` Michael J. Tobler
1999-01-14  0:00     ` Erik Funkenbusch
1999-01-14  0:00       ` Larry Kilgallen
1999-01-19  0:00       ` Chris Gray
1999-01-14  0:00   ` Gerhard Menzl
1999-01-14  0:00     ` John Birch
1999-01-14  0:00       ` Bjarne Stroustrup
1999-01-16  0:00         ` John Birch
1999-01-14  0:00       ` Pat Rogers
1999-01-16  0:00         ` John Birch
1999-01-16  0:00           ` Pat Rogers
1999-01-17  0:00           ` Matthew Heaney
1999-01-17  0:00             ` Mike Coffin
1999-01-17  0:00               ` robert_dewar
1999-02-04  0:00                 ` mll
1999-02-04  0:00                   ` mike
1999-02-04  0:00                     ` John McCabe
1999-02-04  0:00                       ` Hyman Rosen
1999-02-04  0:00                       ` mike
1999-02-05  0:00                         ` John McCabe
1999-02-05  0:00                     ` Stephen Leake
1999-02-06  0:00                       ` Michael Stark
1999-02-08  0:00                         ` Stanley Friesen [Contractor]
1999-02-12  0:00                           ` Michael Stark
1999-02-05  0:00                     ` Richard D Riehle
1999-02-05  0:00                     ` Tucker Taft
1999-02-09  0:00                       ` Fredric L. Rice
1999-02-05  0:00                     ` robert_dewar
1999-02-05  0:00                       ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
1999-02-05  0:00                         ` robert_dewar
1999-02-05  0:00                           ` mike
1999-02-06  0:00                             ` robert_dewar
1999-02-06  0:00                               ` mike
1999-02-08  0:00                                 ` dennison
1999-02-08  0:00                                   ` Al Christians
1999-02-08  0:00                                     ` William Clodius
1999-02-09  0:00                                 ` Fredric L. Rice
1999-02-09  0:00                                   ` Matt Austern
1999-02-08  0:00                               ` Marin David Condic
1999-02-09  0:00                               ` Fredric L. Rice
1999-02-09  0:00                                 ` Marin David Condic
1999-02-06  0:00                             ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
1999-02-09  0:00                             ` Fredric L. Rice
1999-02-09  0:00                               ` Robert I. Eachus
1999-02-06  0:00                           ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
1999-02-08  0:00                             ` Robert I. Eachus
1999-02-08  0:00                               ` mike
1999-02-08  0:00                                 ` Larry Kilgallen
1999-02-09  0:00                                 ` Geoff Bull
1999-02-09  0:00                                   ` atomly
1999-02-09  0:00                                     ` Larry Kilgallen
1999-02-09  0:00                               ` robert_dewar
1999-02-10  0:00                                 ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
1999-02-10  0:00                                   ` robert_dewar
1999-02-10  0:00                                     ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
1999-02-10  0:00                                     ` mike
1999-02-10  0:00                                       ` Al Christians
1999-02-12  0:00                                         ` robert_dewar
1999-02-10  0:00                                       ` nabbasi
1999-02-12  0:00                                       ` robert_dewar
1999-02-11  0:00                                     ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen [this message]
1999-02-12  0:00                                       ` robert_dewar
1999-02-13  0:00                                         ` Dale Stanbrough
1999-02-15  0:00                                         ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
1999-02-16  0:00                                           ` robert_dewar
1999-02-15  0:00                                       ` P.S. Norby
1999-02-16  0:00                                         ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
1999-02-09  0:00                             ` Fredric L. Rice
     [not found]                           ` <79fnce$iv8@drn.newsguy.c <36beecef.70d8ed5e@pwfl.com>
1999-02-08  0:00                             ` Larry Kilgallen
1999-02-08  0:00                               ` Marin David Condic
1999-02-07  0:00                         ` James S. Rogers
1999-02-07  0:00                           ` mike
1999-02-07  0:00                             ` James S. Rogers
1999-02-07  0:00                               ` mike
1999-02-07  0:00                                 ` atomly
1999-02-08  0:00                                   ` Pascal Obry
1999-02-08  0:00                                   ` robert_dewar
1999-02-08  0:00                                     ` Dan Nagle
1999-02-08  0:00                                 ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
1999-02-08  0:00                               ` Geoff Bull
1999-02-09  0:00                               ` Fredric L. Rice
1999-02-09  0:00                                 ` Marin David Condic
1999-02-07  0:00                             ` Simon Wright
1999-02-09  0:00                               ` robert_dewar
1999-02-09  0:00                                 ` nabbasi
     [not found]                             ` <79 <36BF2098.11E0761B@erols.com>
1999-02-08  0:00                               ` Bjarne Stroustrup
1999-02-09  0:00                                 ` robert_dewar
1999-02-08  0:00                             ` robert_dewar
1999-02-09  0:00                             ` Geoff Bull
1999-02-08  0:00                           ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
     [not found]                           ` <79k65l$s0t@drn.news <36c006b8.fc6c187d@acenet.com.au>
1999-02-09  0:00                             ` Larry Kilgallen
1999-02-09  0:00                       ` Fredric L. Rice
1999-02-09  0:00                         ` Marin David Condic
1999-02-06  0:00                     ` Geoff Bull
1999-02-05  0:00                       ` mike
1999-02-08  0:00                         ` Geoff Bull
1999-02-08  0:00                           ` mike
1999-02-09  0:00                             ` Geoff Bull
1999-02-09  0:00                             ` P.S. Norby
1999-02-08  0:00                           ` Stanley Friesen [Contractor]
1999-02-05  0:00                       ` Andrew Koenig
1999-02-06  0:00                     ` Brian Rogoff
1999-02-08  0:00                       ` mike
1999-02-08  0:00                         ` Brian Rogoff
1999-02-09  0:00                           ` Geoff Bull
1999-02-09  0:00                             ` Brian Rogoff
1999-02-09  0:00                         ` Geoff Bull
1999-02-09  0:00                         ` dennison
1999-02-09  0:00                         ` robert_dewar
1999-01-17  0:00               ` Ell
1999-01-17  0:00               ` Matthew Heaney
1999-01-17  0:00                 ` Mike Coffin
1999-01-17  0:00                   ` Matthew Heaney
1999-01-17  0:00                     ` Mike Coffin
1999-01-19  0:00                       ` adam
1999-01-18  0:00                         ` kevin
1999-01-20  0:00                           ` Michael J. Tobler
1999-01-19  0:00                         ` Michael Rubenstein
1999-01-19  0:00                           ` robert_dewar
1999-01-21  0:00                           ` Lieven Marchand
1999-01-19  0:00                         ` Mike Coffin
1999-01-20  0:00                           ` Larry Kilgallen
1999-01-21  0:00                             ` adam
1999-01-23  0:00                               ` Simon Wright
1999-01-22  0:00                       ` Matthew Heaney
1999-01-22  0:00                         ` adam
1999-01-23  0:00                           ` Matthew Heaney
1999-01-24  0:00                           ` robert_dewar
1999-02-01  0:00                             ` Robert I. Eachus
1999-02-01  0:00                               ` Al Christians
1999-02-02  0:00                                 ` Jerry van Dijk
1999-01-18  0:00                 ` Joe Gwinn
1999-01-19  0:00                   ` robert_dewar
1999-01-20  0:00                     ` Joe Gwinn
1999-01-21  0:00                       ` dennison
1999-01-21  0:00                         ` robert_dewar
1999-01-21  0:00                       ` robert_dewar
1999-01-21  0:00                         ` Joe Gwinn
1999-01-21  0:00                       ` robert_dewar
1999-01-22  0:00                         ` Joe Gwinn
1999-01-24  0:00                           ` robert_dewar
1999-01-24  0:00                             ` Joe Gwinn
1999-01-25  0:00                               ` robert_dewar
1999-01-25  0:00                                 ` Joe Gwinn
1999-01-27  0:00                     ` Ola Liljedahl
1999-01-27  0:00                       ` Instruction Set Semantics Nick Roberts
1999-01-28  0:00                         ` robert_dewar
1999-01-27  0:00                       ` Ada vs C++ vs Java Scott Johnson
1999-01-28  0:00                       ` robert_dewar
1999-01-15  0:00       ` Wolfgang Denk
1999-01-15  0:00         ` robert_dewar
1999-01-16  0:00           ` Michael J. Tobler
1999-01-25  0:00             ` Real-time dyn allctn (was: Ada vs C++ vs Java) Nick Roberts
1999-01-25  0:00               ` Niklas Holsti
1999-01-26  0:00                 ` Nick Roberts
1999-01-25  0:00               ` John Birch
1999-01-26  0:00                 ` Nick Roberts
1999-01-27  0:00                   ` John Birch
1999-01-25  0:00               ` robert_dewar
1999-01-26  0:00                 ` Nick Roberts
1999-01-28  0:00                   ` dmitrik
1999-01-29  0:00                     ` Nick Roberts
1999-01-15  0:00         ` Ada vs C++ vs Java Herman
1999-01-15  0:00         ` Ola Liljedahl
1999-01-16  0:00         ` John Birch
1999-01-15  0:00       ` James Kanze
1999-01-16  0:00         ` John Birch
1999-01-17  0:00           ` Matthew Heaney
1999-01-17  0:00             ` phil
1999-01-17  0:00               ` robert_dewar
1999-01-18  0:00             ` John Birch
1999-01-18  0:00               ` Dynamic memory? (was Re: Ada vs C++ vs Java) Martijn Lievaart
1999-01-18  0:00                 ` John Birch
1999-01-18  0:00                   ` Ken Keys
1999-01-26  0:00                     ` Scott Johnson
1999-01-18  0:00                   ` Martijn Lievaart
1999-01-18  0:00                     ` robert_dewar
1999-01-18  0:00                     ` John Birch
1999-01-18  0:00                       ` robert_dewar
1999-01-18  0:00                         ` dennison
1999-01-18  0:00                           ` robert_dewar
1999-01-19  0:00                             ` news.oxy.com
1999-01-25  0:00                             ` Nick Roberts
1999-01-26  0:00                               ` robert_dewar
1999-01-19  0:00                         ` bourguet
1999-01-19  0:00                         ` Laurent Safa
1999-01-20  0:00                           ` Michael J. Tobler
1999-01-21  0:00                           ` Richard Kenner
1999-01-21  0:00                         ` Georg Bauhaus
1999-01-21  0:00                           ` robert_dewar
1999-01-18  0:00                       ` James Kanze
1999-01-18  0:00                       ` John Birch
1999-01-18  0:00                         ` robert_dewar
1999-01-19  0:00                         ` James Kanze
1999-01-18  0:00                       ` Martijn Lievaart
1999-01-20  0:00                       ` Stanley Friesen [Contractor]
1999-01-18  0:00               ` Ada vs C++ vs Java James Kanze
1999-01-18  0:00                 ` John Birch
1999-01-18  0:00                   ` robert_dewar
1999-01-19  0:00                   ` James Kanze
1999-01-18  0:00               ` robert_dewar
1999-01-18  0:00           ` James Kanze
1999-01-18  0:00             ` John Birch
1999-01-18  0:00               ` James Kanze
1999-01-19  0:00               ` Matthew Heaney
1999-01-15  0:00       ` Gerhard Menzl
1999-01-15  0:00         ` John Birch
1999-01-16  0:00           ` robert_dewar
1999-01-16  0:00             ` Michael J. Tobler
1999-01-16  0:00               ` robert_dewar
1999-01-18  0:00                 ` Draconian coding standards (was: Ada vs C++ vs Java) dennison
1999-01-18  0:00                   ` dewar
1999-01-18  0:00                     ` dennison
1999-01-18  0:00                       ` robert_dewar
1999-01-18  0:00                         ` dennison
1999-01-19  0:00                           ` robert_dewar
1999-01-19  0:00                             ` dennison
1999-01-19  0:00                     ` Simon Wright
1999-01-19  0:00                   ` Bob Munck
1999-01-19  0:00                     ` Aidan Skinner
1999-01-19  0:00                     ` robert_dewar
1999-01-16  0:00             ` Ada vs C++ vs Java Crazy Pete
1999-01-16  0:00               ` robert_dewar
1999-01-16  0:00                 ` Judah Diament
1999-01-16  0:00                   ` bill
1999-01-16  0:00                     ` Al Christians
1999-01-17  0:00                     ` Judah Diament
1999-01-17  0:00                     ` robert_dewar
1999-01-17  0:00                       ` bill
1999-01-26  0:00                       ` Enforcement of coding standards (was: Ada vs C++ vs Java) Nick Roberts
1999-01-26  0:00                         ` dennison
1999-01-17  0:00                     ` Ada vs C++ vs Java Dennis
1999-01-18  0:00             ` dennison
1999-01-18  0:00               ` robert_dewar
1999-01-19  0:00                 ` Crazy Pete
1999-01-19  0:00                   ` robert_dewar
1999-01-20  0:00                     ` Christopher Browne
1999-01-19  0:00                       ` bill
1999-01-20  0:00                         ` robert_dewar
1999-01-21  0:00                           ` Peter Hend�n
1999-01-20  0:00                         ` robert_dewar
1999-01-20  0:00                         ` dennison
1999-01-20  0:00                           ` robert_dewar
1999-01-20  0:00                             ` dennison
1999-01-21  0:00                               ` robert_dewar
1999-01-21  0:00                               ` Matthew Heaney
1999-01-21  0:00                                 ` Al Christians
1999-01-21  0:00                                   ` Matthew Heaney
     [not found]                                     ` <m3g194bhzh.fsf@fred.muc.de>
1999-01-21  0:00                                       ` Stephen Leake
1999-01-21  0:00                                     ` Al Christians
1999-01-22  0:00                                       ` Matthew Heaney
1999-01-21  0:00                                         ` bill_1
1999-01-22  0:00                                           ` Matthew Heaney
1999-01-22  0:00                                             ` Ada mode requests (Re: Ada vs C++ vs Java) dennison
1999-01-22  0:00                                               ` dennison
1999-01-22  0:00                                               ` David C. Hoos, Sr.
1999-01-24  0:00                                                 ` dewar
1999-01-28  0:00                                                   ` John McCabe
1999-01-29  0:00                                                     ` dewar
1999-01-29  0:00                                                       ` John McCabe
1999-01-30  0:00                                                         ` robert_dewar
1999-01-30  0:00                                                           ` John McCabe
1999-01-29  0:00                                                     ` John McCabe
1999-01-25  0:00                                                 ` John McCabe
     [not found]                                                   ` <36afc1ec.20165240@news.geccs.gecm.com>
1999-01-26  0:00                                                     ` John McCabe
1999-01-27  0:00                                                       ` dennison
     [not found]                                                       ` <36b019e5.897220@news.geccs.gecm.com>
1999-01-28  0:00                                                         ` John McCabe
     [not found]                                                           ` <36b170cd.1793333@news.geccs.gecm.com>
1999-01-29  0:00                                                             ` John McCabe
1999-01-29  0:00                                                           ` dewar
1999-01-29  0:00                                                             ` Samuel Tardieu
1999-01-30  0:00                                                               ` John McCabe
1999-01-22  0:00                                               ` Matthew Heaney
1999-01-22  0:00                                                 ` dennison
1999-01-22  0:00                                                 ` David C. Hoos, Sr.
1999-01-24  0:00                                                   ` robert_dewar
1999-01-22  0:00                                             ` Ada vs C++ vs Java bill_1
1999-01-22  0:00                                               ` Matthew Heaney
1999-01-23  0:00                                             ` Simon Wright
1999-01-23  0:00                                               ` Matthew Heaney
1999-01-24  0:00                                                 ` Simon Wright
1999-01-24  0:00                                                   ` Matthew Heaney
1999-01-24  0:00                                             ` dewar
     [not found]                                             ` <36af43e6.7584350@news.geccs.gecm.com>
1999-01-26  0:00                                               ` Ada Mode wish list Simon Wright
     [not found]                                               ` <36b04b91.9547583@news.geccs.gecm.com>
1999-01-26  0:00                                                 ` John McCabe
1999-01-22  0:00                                         ` Ada vs C++ vs Java Tarjei Tj�stheim Jensen
1999-01-20  0:00                             ` dennison
1999-01-21  0:00                               ` dewar
1999-01-21  0:00                                 ` bourguet
1999-01-21  0:00                                 ` dennison
1999-01-20  0:00                       ` robert_dewar
1999-01-20  0:00                         ` dennison
1999-01-20  0:00                           ` robert_dewar
1999-01-20  0:00                         ` Robert I. Eachus
1999-01-21  0:00                   ` Martin Dowie
1999-01-19  0:00                 ` Peter Hend�n
1999-01-19  0:00                   ` robert_dewar
1999-01-18  0:00               ` Larry Kilgallen
1999-01-18  0:00           ` Gerhard Menzl
1999-01-18  0:00             ` robert_dewar
1999-01-16  0:00   ` Matthew Heaney
1999-01-16  0:00     ` Matthew Heaney
1999-01-18  0:00     ` Ken Keys
1999-01-19  0:00       ` Matthew Heaney
1999-01-19  0:00       ` Tucker Taft
     [not found] ` <01be3f5e$26453ca0$5704fbd1@longslide>
1999-01-14  0:00   ` Siamak Kaveh
1999-01-16  0:00     ` Craig Garrett
1999-01-18  0:00       ` Ken Keys
1999-01-14  0:00 ` Pete Becker
1999-01-15  0:00   ` Scott Johnson
1999-01-15  0:00     ` Larry Kilgallen
1999-01-16  0:00     ` Matthew Heaney
1999-01-18  0:00     ` James Kanze
1999-01-19  0:00       ` Scott Johnson
1999-01-15  0:00 ` Bruce Detter
1999-01-18  0:00   ` John Birch
1999-01-18  0:00     ` Bruce Detter
1999-01-19  0:00       ` Thanks everyone! (was Re: Ada vs C++ vs Java) Martijn Lievaart
1999-01-19  0:00         ` John Birch
1999-01-19  0:00           ` Scott Johnson
1999-01-19  0:00           ` Bob Cousins
1999-01-22  0:00 ` Ada vs C++ vs Java Dr. Hubert B. Keller
1999-01-22  0:00   ` Bob Cousins
1999-01-22  0:00     ` Roedy Green
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
1999-01-13  0:00 Leszek Sczaniecki
1999-01-13  0:00 ` David A. Frantz
1999-01-14  0:00   ` forsyth
1999-01-14  0:00     ` Marin David Condic
1999-01-15  0:00     ` robert_dewar
1999-01-13  0:00 ` Stanley R. Allen
1999-01-13  0:00 ` Network
1999-01-14  0:00   ` Ken Keys
1999-01-15  0:00   ` Matthew Heaney
     [not found] ` <369CF2CF.440F413C@hercii.mar.lmco.com>
1999-01-16  0:00   ` bob
     [not found] <m3k8yhy6fe.fsf@fred.muc.de>
1999-01-21  0:00 ` Tucker Taft
1999-01-21  0:00   ` forsyth
1999-01-22  0:00     ` Tucker Taft
1999-01-25  0:00       ` Walter Mallory
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