Re: in defense of GC (was Re: How come Ada isn't more popular?)

[Ray Blaak <rAYblaaK@STRIPCAPStelus.net>]

"Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> writes:
> On Fri, 02 Feb 2007 01:37:26 GMT, Ray Blaak wrote:
> > Modern GC systems simply do a better job at it them people do.
> 
> Maybe, but that does not explain why such GC should be hard-wired. Note you
> are talking about systems (plural), but wired could be only one. Why do you
> want to forbid me to use my GC?

Well, I am not forbidding anyone. Certainly there are times where it is
justified to disable GC, as I already pointed out. So, presumably a fully
general language environment would be able to run with it disabled if
necessary.

If nothing else, you are free choose the language you like. Currently that
means Ada. For me, that would be C#.

The original context of this thread is about the popularity of Ada. My
position is that Ada would be a better fit for general use if GC was the
default, not the exception.

> 
> [...]
> > The point is that the programmer is freed from the error prone tedium of
> > explicitly managing memory.
> 
> This is a misconception. There are two fundamentally different issues:
> 
> 1. Object scopes
> 2. Memory management
> 
> The second issue is less and less relevant as Randy pointed out. The first
> issue is always relevant. It is a good design to consider where an object
> exists. GC [and upward closures] is an attitude of making everything
> potentially global. In fact it is worse than just global. It is "I don't
> know where I need that damn thing."

GC does not affect visibility or scoping. That is an orthogonal issue, and
still quite properly under the control of the programmer. Upward closures do
not make an object more global unless the closure explicitly exposes the
object for external use.

All GC is really about is reclaiming objects that are no longer in use.

As to memory management being less relevant, I am clearly disagreeing with
Randy. As long as memory is finite, it matters. We have huge memories on our
computers today as compared to, say, the 80's. Memory management matters more
than ever.

-- 
Cheers,                                        The Rhythm is around me,
                                               The Rhythm has control.
Ray Blaak                                      The Rhythm is inside me,
rAYblaaK@STRIPCAPStelus.net                    The Rhythm has my soul.