comp.lang.ada
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: Ray Blaak <rAYblaaK@STRIPCAPStelus.net>
Subject: Re: Exceptions
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 00:46:04 GMT
Date: 2007-12-14T00:46:04+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <u4pem6r3t.fsf@STRIPCAPStelus.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: wcclk7ypsbp.fsf@shell01.TheWorld.com

Robert A Duff <bobduff@shell01.TheWorld.com> writes:
> The Java programmers who have been mentioned several times in this
> thread -- the ones who evilly stick in do-nothing handlers -- are doing
> so on purpose.  Any attempt to fix that problem via language design will
> backfire.  Fixing it via education OTOH has a good chance of success.

I used to "believe" in checked exception handling, my Ada experience being the
likely inspiration.

Long experience with Java code leads me to believe they cause more problems
then they solve, simply due to the fact that the majority of programmers are
coding at a junior or "naive" level.

So, when the compiler demands an exception handler, then by golly they provide
one -- one that simply swallows the exception with a log of the stack trace.

This is in fact far worse than not handling the exception at all, since
control flow is not aborted.

So, the junior programmer evilly stuck in a do-nothing handler, but they had
no clue they were being evil.

Note also that the theoretical correctness of whether or not checked
exceptions are better is not being disputed here -- the answer is
irrelevant. The *practical* effect of checked exceptions, at least with junior
programmers, tends, in Java at least, to cause worse results than not handling
the exception at all.

So, C#'s approach of not having checked exceptions is turning out to be a
better design decision in practice, in my experience.

Another point is to consider what one usually does with a handled
exception. Usually it is to ultimately report it or log it in some manner.
Primarily it needs to perculate up to a top level, where some sort of central
event loop can be reset. Sometimes some cleanup needs to be done, but that
cleanup often tends to be needed for any exception that is thrown, and the
exception should often be rethrown anyway so as to continue to abort the
control flow. My experience is that most code does not need to handle
exceptions at all except at well defined points in the top level.

Mind you, with the use of a non-garbage collected language like Ada, one would
need to do cleanups with exceptions more often, but that does not imply the
need to do specific exception handling.

The times I have seen the need for exception specific handling is usually to
do with error message generation. Some exceptions need to show stack traces,
some need to show different messages, some need to be shown to the user,
etc. This kind of thing is easier to centralize in a language where exceptions
are first class objects, since one can override exception behaviour
(e.g. anything extending from UserException will be shown to the user,
anything else will be logged with a stack trace, with only an "unexpected
error" shown to the user, paprticular error reasons are shown via overriding
the getMessage() method, etc.).

I note also that recent APIs for Java (e.g. XML DOM, Joda data/time, D4Bo
OODB) tend to use unchecked exceptions in their APIs, since it makes
development so much easier for writing and maintaining code against those
APIs.

-- 
Cheers,                                        The Rhythm is around me,
                                               The Rhythm has control.
Ray Blaak                                      The Rhythm is inside me,
rAYblaaK@STRIPCAPStelus.net                    The Rhythm has my soul.



  reply	other threads:[~2007-12-14  0:46 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 100+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2007-12-06 15:00 Exceptions shaunpatterson
2007-12-06 21:24 ` Exceptions tmoran
2007-12-07  8:54   ` Exceptions Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-12-07 10:21     ` Exceptions Georg Bauhaus
2007-12-07 15:11       ` Exceptions shaunpatterson
2007-12-07 16:08         ` Exceptions Gautier
2007-12-07 18:56         ` Exceptions Simon Wright
2007-12-08 10:04         ` Exceptions Stephen Leake
2007-12-08  3:30     ` Exceptions Randy Brukardt
2007-12-08 10:09       ` Contracted exceptions for Ada (was: Exceptions) Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-12-09 10:22         ` Contracted exceptions for Ada Stephen Leake
2007-12-09 11:02           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-12-11  8:10             ` Stephen Leake
2007-12-11 10:36               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-12-09 15:11         ` Contracted exceptions for Ada (was: Exceptions) Martin Krischik
2007-12-09 17:36           ` Contracted exceptions for Ada Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-12-09 18:39             ` Simon Wright
2007-12-10  8:19               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-12-10 20:25                 ` Simon Wright
2007-12-11  8:50                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-12-11 20:50                     ` Simon Wright
2007-12-12 10:20                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-12-09 19:04             ` Martin Krischik
2007-12-10  8:20               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-12-09 22:09         ` Robert A Duff
2007-12-10  7:09           ` Stefan Lucks
2007-12-10 16:57             ` Robert A Duff
2007-12-11  1:53         ` Contracted exceptions for Ada (was: Exceptions) Randy Brukardt
2007-12-11  9:16           ` Contracted exceptions for Ada Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-12-12  0:26             ` Randy Brukardt
2007-12-08 12:26       ` Exceptions Peter C. Chapin
2007-12-08 14:01         ` Exceptions Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-12-08 18:01           ` Exceptions Peter C. Chapin
2007-12-09 10:06             ` Exceptions Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-12-09 12:40               ` Exceptions Peter C. Chapin
2007-12-09 14:31                 ` Exceptions Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-12-09 16:38                   ` Exceptions Peter C. Chapin
2007-12-10  8:31                     ` Exceptions Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-12-09 21:56                 ` Exceptions Robert A Duff
2007-12-09 10:24             ` Exceptions Stephen Leake
2007-12-09 12:46               ` Exceptions Peter C. Chapin
2007-12-09 21:39   ` Exceptions Robert A Duff
2007-12-09 22:13     ` Exceptions Georg Bauhaus
2007-12-11  8:07       ` Exceptions Stephen Leake
2007-12-11 20:28         ` Exceptions Simon Wright
2007-12-12 22:10         ` Exceptions Maciej Sobczak
2007-12-13 13:40           ` Exceptions Robert A Duff
2007-12-13 14:00             ` Exceptions Maciej Sobczak
2007-12-13 14:44               ` Exceptions Robert A Duff
2007-12-14  0:46                 ` Ray Blaak [this message]
2007-12-14  2:36                   ` Exceptions Randy Brukardt
2007-12-14  6:21                     ` Exceptions Ray Blaak
2007-12-14 12:40                       ` Exceptions Georg Bauhaus
2007-12-14 17:29                   ` Exceptions Robert A Duff
2007-12-14 19:32                     ` Exceptions Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-12-15  5:29                     ` Exceptions Ray Blaak
2007-12-13 19:29               ` Exceptions Randy Brukardt
2007-12-12 19:18     ` Exceptions Martin Krischik
2007-12-13 13:27       ` Exceptions Robert A Duff
2007-12-13 23:25       ` Exceptions Ray Blaak
2007-12-06 21:25 ` Exceptions Gautier
2007-12-07  4:29 ` Exceptions anon
2007-12-07  4:43 ` Exceptions, part 2 anon
2007-12-07 16:55 ` Exceptions Adam Beneschan
2007-12-07 18:59   ` Exceptions Simon Wright
2007-12-08  0:38     ` Exceptions Adam Beneschan
2007-12-09 21:45     ` Exceptions Robert A Duff
2007-12-09 22:40       ` Exceptions Georg Bauhaus
2007-12-10  8:22         ` Exceptions Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-12-10  9:20           ` Exceptions Georg Bauhaus
2007-12-10  9:30             ` Exceptions Georg Bauhaus
2007-12-10 10:56             ` Exceptions Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-12-11  2:18               ` Exceptions Randy Brukardt
2007-12-11  8:19               ` Exceptions Georg Bauhaus
2007-12-11 11:55                 ` Exceptions Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-12-11 16:13                   ` Exceptions Georg Bauhaus
2007-12-12 11:18                     ` Exceptions Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-12-10 12:09           ` Exceptions Niklas Holsti
2007-12-10 13:08             ` Exceptions Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-12-10 20:02               ` Exceptions Niklas Holsti
2007-12-11 12:31                 ` Exceptions Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-12-11 13:21                   ` Exceptions Niklas Holsti
2007-12-12  0:01                     ` Exceptions Randy Brukardt
2007-12-12 11:37                       ` Exceptions Niklas Holsti
2007-12-12 13:14                         ` Exceptions Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-12-12 14:37                       ` Exceptions Robert A Duff
2007-12-13 19:20                         ` Exceptions Randy Brukardt
2007-12-13 20:15                           ` Exceptions Robert A Duff
2007-12-12 11:00                     ` Exceptions Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-12-11  2:12           ` Exceptions Randy Brukardt
2007-12-11 15:17             ` Exceptions Robert A Duff
2007-12-12  0:10               ` Exceptions Randy Brukardt
2007-12-13 19:58                 ` Exceptions Robert A Duff
2007-12-14  0:53                 ` Exceptions Ray Blaak
2007-12-14  2:48                   ` Exceptions Randy Brukardt
2007-12-14  6:33                     ` Exceptions Ray Blaak
2007-12-08 10:03 ` Exceptions Stephen Leake
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
1991-03-06 17:24 Exceptions David Erickson
1991-03-06 21:21 ` Exceptions Jerry Callen
1989-06-23 21:57 Exceptions howell
replies disabled

This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox