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From: "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <>
Subject: Re: Broadcast / iterate to all Connection objects via Simple Components?
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2023 11:57:21 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <tsidqg$2r8k0$> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <>

On 2023-02-15 10:54, Niklas Holsti wrote:
> On 2023-02-13 21:48, Dmitry A. Kazakov wrote:
>> On 2023-02-13 17:26, Niklas Holsti wrote:
>>> On 2023-02-13 17:10, Dmitry A. Kazakov wrote:
>>> But why should the RM define two "task" concepts that have exactly 
>>> the same properties? Or should co-routines have some different 
>>> properties? That was the point of my question, apologies if I was 
>>> unclear.
>> Ada has floating-point, fixed-point, universal real implementations of 
>> the same concept of real number. Why?
> Of course because these implementations have /different/ properties, 
> suitable for different uses. They are /not/ the same, and their 
> differences are defined in the Ada RM.

The concept here is R, the set of real numbers.

> Perhaps you think that those differences are implicit in the term 
> "co-routine", but I don't find it so, sorry.

Clearly co-routine and OS thread have different properties as 
implementations of same concept of a "thread of control."

>> Rendezvous is asymmetric client-server. In a callback scenario parties 
>> are equivalent. Each can wait for another. With tasks a protected 
>> object is usually thrown in to work it around.
> Aha, so you are proposing that co-routines would have some other means, 
> not protected objects, for symmetric inter-co-routine communication.

When you do blocking I/O you do not [explicitly] communicate with the 
system PCI bus or whatever.

> What would that be, perhaps directly shared (unprotected) variables?

Nothing. When you call Ada.Text_IO.Put_Line, you just do that, File_Type 
is not shared, not explicitly.

> Then you have to ensure that those co-routines are implicitly mutually 
> exclusive, right?

Exclusive to what?

>> 1. To simplify "pipeline" stuff. Each side need not to know what the 
>> other side does or each other. They know the pipeline. The programmer 
>> should use a call or a timed entry call or a selective accept. I leave 
>> that open for now.
> By "pipeline", do you mean an order-preserving stream of data from a 
> producer to a consumer? If so, a simple protected queue or buffer 
> between producer and consumer tasks implements it.

No it does not. I was talking about the pipeline ends, not about the 
pipeline itself.

> By leaving the details open, you leave your proposal fuzzy and hard to 
> understand.

You need an implementation writing a buffer of n bytes into a FIFO queue?

procedure Write (S : in out FIFO; X : Stream_Element_Array) is
    From : Stream_Element_Offset := X'First;
       Queue_Immediate (S, X (This..X'Last), From);
       exit when From >= X'Last;
       Wait_For_Not_Full (S);
       From := From + 1;
    end loop;
end Write;

The client code calls Write, which appears as a blocking call.

Should I provide another end too? (:-))

>> 2. To allow sharing context of a single OS thread. So the term 
>> "co-routine."
> I don't think that property is implicit in the term "co-routine", 
> because co-routines can exist even without OS threads.

In the same sense how System.Address can exist without a processor? (:-))

> But most importantly, this property cannot be used to /define/ the 
> "co-routine" concept in the Ada RM. That definition may of course be 
> /chosen/ so as to /allow/ this implementation.

See above. The concept here is thread of control.

> However, this property is already satisfied for "tasks" in those Ada 
> systems that implement tasking in the RTS, without using multiple OS 
> threads. So the current definition of Ada "tasks" already allows such 
> sharing.

It does not support user implementations of tasks coexisting with the 
OS-backed tasks. Certainly one possible way would be like it was done 
with the access types and storage pools to provide an abstraction layer 
for tasks. However, I think that could be a bit extreme.

>> 3. As I said above, the goal is to take plain I/O code (the client) 
>> and reuse it with no adjustments with a server/provider/consumer in 
>> place of the OS I/O subsystem.
> And that server/provider/consumer would be what?

See the pipeline example.

> Ada code in the 
> application? Or part of the Ada RTS? Would it have to be aware of all of 
> the OS I/O subsystem's services? For example, would it have to know 
> about the socket interface to networking?

The library supplied implementation of Send (see Write above) will. The 
client will call Send which in the case of non-blocking I/O will yield 
in Wait_For_Not_Full above and resume upon a callback or explicitly by 
the handler of the socket set. The co-routine case is having the handler 
and many callers to Send ran by the same OS thread (or by a much 
narrower pool of OS threads).

Dmitry A. Kazakov

  reply	other threads:[~2023-02-15 10:57 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 22+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2023-02-07 20:29 Broadcast / iterate to all Connection objects via Simple Components? A.J.
2023-02-08  8:55 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2023-02-08  9:55 ` Jeffrey R.Carter
2023-02-13  7:28   ` Emmanuel Briot
2023-02-13  8:30     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2023-02-13  8:44       ` Emmanuel Briot
2023-02-13 10:55         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2023-02-13 11:07           ` Emmanuel Briot
2023-02-13 11:57             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2023-02-13 13:22               ` Niklas Holsti
2023-02-13 15:10                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2023-02-13 16:26                   ` Niklas Holsti
2023-02-13 19:48                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2023-02-15  9:54                       ` Niklas Holsti
2023-02-15 10:57                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov [this message]
2023-02-15 18:37                           ` Niklas Holsti
2023-02-19  1:27                             ` A.J.
2023-02-19  8:29                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2023-02-19 14:37                               ` Niklas Holsti
2023-02-13 15:43                 ` J-P. Rosen
2023-02-13 16:40             ` Jeremy Grosser <>
2023-02-13 20:33 ` Daniel Norte de Moraes
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