* "everybody in the control room is using Java" @ 2004-01-16 17:49 Hyman Rosen 2004-01-16 22:21 ` Martin Dowie 0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread From: Hyman Rosen @ 2004-01-16 17:49 UTC (permalink / raw) <http://news.com.com/2100-1007_3-5142220.html?tag=nefd_top> ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: "everybody in the control room is using Java" 2004-01-16 17:49 "everybody in the control room is using Java" Hyman Rosen @ 2004-01-16 22:21 ` Martin Dowie 2004-01-17 12:06 ` Preben Randhol 2004-01-17 14:58 ` Dmytry Lavrov 0 siblings, 2 replies; 9+ messages in thread From: Martin Dowie @ 2004-01-16 22:21 UTC (permalink / raw) "Hyman Rosen" <hyrosen@mail.com> wrote in message news:1074275354.853176@master.nyc.kbcfp.com... > <http://news.com.com/2100-1007_3-5142220.html?tag=nefd_top> Yeah, not the real thing though!.. http://www.ghs.com/news/230811j.html ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: "everybody in the control room is using Java" 2004-01-16 22:21 ` Martin Dowie @ 2004-01-17 12:06 ` Preben Randhol 2004-01-17 13:52 ` Martin Dowie 2004-01-17 14:58 ` Dmytry Lavrov 1 sibling, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread From: Preben Randhol @ 2004-01-17 12:06 UTC (permalink / raw) On 2004-01-16, Martin Dowie <martin.dowie@btopenworld.com> wrote: > "Hyman Rosen" <hyrosen@mail.com> wrote in message > news:1074275354.853176@master.nyc.kbcfp.com... >> <http://news.com.com/2100-1007_3-5142220.html?tag=nefd_top> > > Yeah, not the real thing though!.. > > http://www.ghs.com/news/230811j.html Does Green Hills use Ada here or they use Java or something else? Preben -- "Saving keystrokes is the job of the text editor, not the programming language." ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: "everybody in the control room is using Java" 2004-01-17 12:06 ` Preben Randhol @ 2004-01-17 13:52 ` Martin Dowie 0 siblings, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread From: Martin Dowie @ 2004-01-17 13:52 UTC (permalink / raw) "Preben Randhol" <randhol+valid_for_reply_from_news@pvv.org> wrote in message news:slrnc0i9a4.69b.randhol+valid_for_reply_from_news@k-083152.nt.ntnu.no... > On 2004-01-16, Martin Dowie <martin.dowie@btopenworld.com> wrote: > > "Hyman Rosen" <hyrosen@mail.com> wrote in message > > news:1074275354.853176@master.nyc.kbcfp.com... > >> <http://news.com.com/2100-1007_3-5142220.html?tag=nefd_top> > > > > Yeah, not the real thing though!.. > > > > http://www.ghs.com/news/230811j.html > > Does Green Hills use Ada here or they use Java or something else? They seem to have a fairly consistent rule that if a project uses Ada then they mention both "MULTI" and "AdaMULTI" in the press release, in the 'about GHS' section. If it doesn't use Ada then they don't mention it and just mention "MULTI". In this press release they mention both. Shame there is no word from Beagle 2 - it uses a version of GNAT. Although, from what I understand, Ada is the defacto language for all ESA projects, so the "Mars Express" craft that got it there is still working perfectly well. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: "everybody in the control room is using Java" 2004-01-16 22:21 ` Martin Dowie 2004-01-17 12:06 ` Preben Randhol @ 2004-01-17 14:58 ` Dmytry Lavrov 2004-01-18 0:41 ` Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler ` (2 more replies) 1 sibling, 3 replies; 9+ messages in thread From: Dmytry Lavrov @ 2004-01-17 14:58 UTC (permalink / raw) "Martin Dowie" <martin.dowie@btopenworld.com> wrote in message news:<bu9o60$h6v$1@sparta.btinternet.com>... > "Hyman Rosen" <hyrosen@mail.com> wrote in message > news:1074275354.853176@master.nyc.kbcfp.com... > > <http://news.com.com/2100-1007_3-5142220.html?tag=nefd_top> > > Yeah, not the real thing though!.. > > http://www.ghs.com/news/230811j.html http://www.cobalt.com/aboutsun/media/features/mars.html http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS3674252711.html Interesting thing, that so called "java technology" ."It's powers the rover from earth" :) Major problem in mars missions is probably programs portability and execution with as much as possible limited access to hardware(no access to things like ports,legs,cameras,trusters,fans,etc) ,like java applets on my PC where i don't want it to have any access to my hardware except framebuffer memory ? Question: I just can't believe _at_all_ that realtime java will _always_ meet deadline,expecially that someone has proved that. Should be assumed that worsest possible GC(garbage collection) operations could happen between deadlines.That's mean,i think,normally load of processor should be not more than several precents,because processor should be fast enough to do GC.If there's JIT like compiler,situation are even worse,it's should be assumed that all commands are interpreted,not compiled! Or someone should do very pricely analysis.... and it's possible that there will be something wrong with it itself,so it's should be checked.... Program should use not more than,say, 1/100th of time(assuming that GC lag 100 times more pricely than normal allocation,and that lag could happen constantly ),and run at <1/20 speed(interpretation)....damn inefficient ,because it's better to have slower and more reliable processors than ,hehe,p4 . Is there any tools for SPECIFIC java platform that will calculate maximal execution time _accurately_? It's should be very hard to make that tool that it will not assume GC lags always like i'm doing. Also,there's no doubling for software if there's same runtime in both rovers. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: "everybody in the control room is using Java" 2004-01-17 14:58 ` Dmytry Lavrov @ 2004-01-18 0:41 ` Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler 2004-01-19 8:21 ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen 2004-01-19 9:38 ` Erlo Haugen 2 siblings, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread From: Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler @ 2004-01-18 0:41 UTC (permalink / raw) Dmytry Lavrov wrote: >Should be assumed that worsest possible GC(garbage collection) >operations could happen between deadlines. IIRC, in RTJ you can turn off and/or call the GC explicitely. Also, there is a concept of so-called immortal memory that is by definition excluded from any GC-algorithms (because it exists "forever") and the NoHeapRealtimeThread classes are allowed to interrupt any on-going garbage collection. Vinzent. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: "everybody in the control room is using Java" 2004-01-17 14:58 ` Dmytry Lavrov 2004-01-18 0:41 ` Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler @ 2004-01-19 8:21 ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen 2004-01-19 9:38 ` Erlo Haugen 2 siblings, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread From: Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen @ 2004-01-19 8:21 UTC (permalink / raw) >>>>> "DL" == Dmytry Lavrov <dmytrylavrov@fsmail.net> writes: DL> "Martin Dowie" <martin.dowie@btopenworld.com> wrote in message news:<bu9o60$h6v$1@sparta.btinternet.com>... >> "Hyman Rosen" <hyrosen@mail.com> wrote in message >> news:1074275354.853176@master.nyc.kbcfp.com... >> > <http://news.com.com/2100-1007_3-5142220.html?tag=nefd_top> >> >> Yeah, not the real thing though!.. >> >> http://www.ghs.com/news/230811j.html DL> http://www.cobalt.com/aboutsun/media/features/mars.html DL> http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS3674252711.html DL> Interesting thing, that so called "java technology" ."It's powers the DL> rover from earth" :) DL> Major problem in mars missions is probably programs portability and DL> execution with as much as possible limited access to hardware(no DL> access to things like ports,legs,cameras,trusters,fans,etc) ,like java DL> applets on my PC where i don't want it to have any access to my DL> hardware except framebuffer memory ? DL> Question: DL> I just can't believe _at_all_ that realtime java will _always_ meet DL> deadline,expecially that someone has proved that. DL> Should be assumed that worsest possible GC(garbage collection) DL> operations could happen between deadlines.That's mean,i think,normally DL> load of processor should be not more than several precents,because DL> processor should be fast enough to do GC.If there's JIT like DL> compiler,situation are even worse,it's should be assumed that all DL> commands are interpreted,not compiled! Or someone should do very DL> pricely analysis.... and it's possible that there will be something DL> wrong with it itself,so it's should be checked.... Don't know about the compiler, but real time garbage collection is essentially a solved problem, provided you do not allocate such large objects that the time to move a single object breaks your schedule. Look in the book "Garbage Collection" by Lin and Jones, or do a Google serach for Henry G. Baker (who now is a venture capitalist it seems) to read his papers. DL> Program should use not more than,say, 1/100th of time(assuming that GC DL> lag 100 times more pricely than normal allocation,and that lag could DL> happen constantly ),and run at <1/20 speed(interpretation)....damn DL> inefficient ,because it's better to have slower and more reliable DL> processors than ,hehe,p4 . Is there any tools for SPECIFIC java DL> platform that will calculate maximal execution time _accurately_? It's DL> should be very hard to make that tool that it will not assume GC lags DL> always like i'm doing. DL> Also,there's no doubling for software if there's same runtime in both DL> rovers. -- C++: The power, elegance and simplicity of a hand grenade. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: "everybody in the control room is using Java" 2004-01-17 14:58 ` Dmytry Lavrov 2004-01-18 0:41 ` Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler 2004-01-19 8:21 ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen @ 2004-01-19 9:38 ` Erlo Haugen 2004-01-19 10:32 ` Preben Randhol 2 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread From: Erlo Haugen @ 2004-01-19 9:38 UTC (permalink / raw) On 17 Jan 2004 06:58:06 -0800 dmytrylavrov@fsmail.net (Dmytry Lavrov) wrote: > "Martin Dowie" <martin.dowie@btopenworld.com> wrote in message > news:<bu9o60$h6v$1@sparta.btinternet.com>... > > "Hyman Rosen" <hyrosen@mail.com> wrote in message > > news:1074275354.853176@master.nyc.kbcfp.com... > > > <http://news.com.com/2100-1007_3-5142220.html?tag=nefd_top> > > > > Yeah, not the real thing though!.. > > > > http://www.ghs.com/news/230811j.html > > http://www.cobalt.com/aboutsun/media/features/mars.html > > http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS3674252711.html > > Interesting thing, that so called "java technology" ."It's powers the > rover from earth" :) This is from the cobalt-link above: Q:What exactly is Java's role in the Mars Rover mission? A: The places where NASA scientists have used Java for this mission is all on the ground side right now. It seems to me that Java is not used in the vehicle, or am I mistaken here? -- Erlo Remove the underscores Sorry, I don't have time for this. I've got bugs to write. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: "everybody in the control room is using Java" 2004-01-19 9:38 ` Erlo Haugen @ 2004-01-19 10:32 ` Preben Randhol 0 siblings, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread From: Preben Randhol @ 2004-01-19 10:32 UTC (permalink / raw) On 2004-01-19, Erlo Haugen <_elh_@_terma_._com_> wrote: > This is from the cobalt-link above: > > Q:What exactly is Java's role in the Mars Rover mission? > > A: The places where NASA scientists have used Java for this mission is all on > the ground side right now. > > It seems to me that Java is not used in the vehicle, or am I mistaken here? No, you are not. -- "Saving keystrokes is the job of the text editor, not the programming language." ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2004-01-19 10:32 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 9+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2004-01-16 17:49 "everybody in the control room is using Java" Hyman Rosen 2004-01-16 22:21 ` Martin Dowie 2004-01-17 12:06 ` Preben Randhol 2004-01-17 13:52 ` Martin Dowie 2004-01-17 14:58 ` Dmytry Lavrov 2004-01-18 0:41 ` Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler 2004-01-19 8:21 ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen 2004-01-19 9:38 ` Erlo Haugen 2004-01-19 10:32 ` Preben Randhol
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