SourceForge vs Savannah

SourceForge vs Savannah

[Stephen Leake]

chris <spamoff.danx@ntlworld.com> writes:

> I'd rather use Savannah than SF for anything.  SF keep changing their
> T&C's and I've lost track of what's what on there.

Could you expand on this? What's "T&C". Hmm - Terms & Conditions?

I'm considering moving my library to either SourceForge or Savannah. I
was leaning towards Savannah, but then someone pointed out that being
on SourceForge makes it easier for others to find, which is an
important point.

> I would be willing to submit some of my work provided I got the
> ability to work on it and extend it.  I would even be willing to hand
> over my copyright, again providing I got the ability to play with it
> (also some credit) and it was some kind of group.

That's what licensing is all about. The GPL, or the GMGPL, gives you
what you are asking for. 

-- 
-- Stephe

Re: SourceForge vs Savannah

[chris]

Stephen Leake wrote:
> chris <spamoff.danx@ntlworld.com> writes:
> 
>>I'd rather use Savannah than SF for anything.  SF keep changing their
>>T&C's and I've lost track of what's what on there.
> 
> Could you expand on this? What's "T&C". Hmm - Terms & Conditions?

Yeah, Terms and Conditions.  (I forget what it's really called!  Is it 
ToU (terms of use), tos (terms of service) or ...?),  I have a slot on 
there for a really old dead project, but about every two months I get an 
email saying SF haved changed the conditions.  About a year ago I heard 
sf.net where trying to benefit from others code by trying to take 
ownership of it in the T&C's.  I don't know if it's true, but given that 
they keep changing the T&C's and it's hard to keep up, I've been 
avoiding them.


> I'm considering moving my library to either SourceForge or Savannah. I
> was leaning towards Savannah, but then someone pointed out that being
> on SourceForge makes it easier for others to find, which is an
> important point.

True.  Savannah is less well known than sf.net.  Do a bit of research 
before picking one.  You might get bitten by sf or savannah and be 
better off on your own.  If you do pick one of these and have some kind 
of version control (CVS?) I'd be interested in how to transfer 
everything up there so people can access the entire history of the 
project (most of my code is in CVS from the beginning).


>>I would be willing to submit some of my work provided I got the
>>ability to work on it and extend it.  I would even be willing to hand
>>over my copyright, again providing I got the ability to play with it
>>(also some credit) and it was some kind of group.
> 
> That's what licensing is all about. The GPL, or the GMGPL, gives you
> what you are asking for. 

Yes, but I think Frank was suggesting a unified distribution of things. 
  What happens if people own different bits of something that is 
distributed?  There are all sorts of complications arising from 
differences in license for various bits.  A copyright owner can usually 
change the license, but the person who puts all the bits together cannot 
change the license of the separate bits to a single license.


Chris

Re: SourceForge vs Savannah

[Stephen Leake]

chris <spamoff.danx@ntlworld.com> writes:

> Stephen Leake wrote:
> > Could you expand on this? What's "T&C". Hmm - Terms & Conditions?
> 
> Yeah, Terms and Conditions.  (I forget what it's really called!  Is it
> ToU (terms of use), tos (terms of service) or ...?),  I have a slot on
> there for a really old dead project, but about every two months I get
> an email saying SF haved changed the conditions.  About a year ago I
> heard sf.net where trying to benefit from others code by trying to
> take ownership of it in the T&C's.  I don't know if it's true, but
> given that they keep changing the T&C's and it's hard to keep up, I've
> been avoiding them.

That was my impression; they were moving towards being more
"commercial" and less "open".

> True. Savannah is less well known than sf.net. Do a bit of research
> before picking one. You might get bitten by sf or savannah and be
> better off on your own.

Savannah is run by the Gnu project, which is pretty fanatical about
Free Software (as in the GPL), so I would expect them to be better in
that area than SourceForge. But I do need to read their T&C :).

> If you do pick one of these and have some
> kind of version control (CVS?) I'd be interested in how to transfer
> everything up there so people can access the entire history of the
> project (most of my code is in CVS from the beginning).

Savannah uses CVS. You can import source into a CVS repository. I'm
not sure you can import a current CVS repository as a whole, but I
vaguely remember reading that you could.

> >>I would be willing to submit some of my work provided I got the
> >>ability to work on it and extend it.  I would even be willing to hand
> >>over my copyright, again providing I got the ability to play with it
> >>(also some credit) and it was some kind of group.
> > That's what licensing is all about. The GPL, or the GMGPL, gives you
> > what you are asking for.
> 
> Yes, but I think Frank was suggesting a unified distribution of
> things. What happens if people own different bits of something that is
> distributed?  There are all sorts of complications arising from
> differences in license for various bits.  A copyright owner can
> usually change the license, but the person who puts all the bits
> together cannot change the license of the separate bits to a single
> license.

Right. The simplest thing for the library managers and users is to
have one license for all code in the library (I vote for the GMGPL).
Yet another impediment to getting started.

Boost does not have a single license, but has some requirements on
what the license must say
(http://www.boost.org/more/lib_guide.htm#License); we could try
something like that.

-- 
-- Stephe

Re: SourceForge vs Savannah

[Georg Bauhaus]

Stephen Leake <Stephe.Leake@nasa.gov> wrote:
: I'm considering moving my library to either SourceForge or Savannah. I
: was leaning towards Savannah, but then someone pointed out that being
: on SourceForge makes it easier for others to find, which is an
: important point.

Did he try?

Try Google with search terms "Ada", "library", "Leake".
Or try the Ada wide search engine with "library", and "Leake".
:-)


Georg

Re: SourceForge vs Savannah

[Martin Krischik]

Stephen Leake wrote:

> chris <spamoff.danx@ntlworld.com> writes:
> 
>> I'd rather use Savannah than SF for anything.  SF keep changing their
>> T&C's and I've lost track of what's what on there.
> 
> Could you expand on this? What's "T&C". Hmm - Terms & Conditions?
> 
> I'm considering moving my library to either SourceForge or Savannah. I
> was leaning towards Savannah, but then someone pointed out that being
> on SourceForge makes it easier for others to find, which is an
> important point.

This is true. SourceForge is longer o the market and has more features. i.E.
the search function you where asking about:

http://sourceforge.net/softwaremap/trove_list.php?form_cat=163

will show all projects with Ada relations. Searching for Ada on Savannah
will give you all sort of projects with "ada" in them.

And then even finding Savannah itself is a problem, it is _not_:

http://www.savannah.org/
http://www.savannah.com/
http://www.savannah.net/

So "find my project on savannah" is not an option. For comparison:

http://www.sf.net/
http://sourceforge.net/
http://sourceforge.com/
http://sourceforge.org/
http://www.sourceforge.net/
http://www.sourceforge.com/
http://www.sourceforge.org/

will all end on sourceforge. Only http://www.sf.com/ and http://www.sf.org/
won't end on sourceforge.

As the OP said: It is a desicion of techics angainst politict. Sourceforge
has the better features (including search), savannahs T&C are not as
strinct.

As for me: I am not politicly minded.

With Regards

Martin

-- 
mailto://krischik@users.sourceforge.net
http://www.ada.krischik.com

Re: SourceForge vs Savannah

[Martin Krischik]

Stephen Leake wrote:

> Savannah uses CVS. You can import source into a CVS repository. I'm
> not sure you can import a current CVS repository as a whole, but I
> vaguely remember reading that you could.

with SourceForge you can. Send the CVS archive as tar archive an the support
staff will load it for you.

> Right. The simplest thing for the library managers and users is to
> have one license for all code in the library (I vote for the GMGPL).
> Yet another impediment to getting started.

Not realy for a all in one library i am willing to switch from LGPL to
GMGPL. 
 
With Regards

Martin
-- 
mailto://krischik@users.sourceforge.net
http://www.ada.krischik.com

Re: SourceForge vs Savannah

[Martin Krischik]

Georg Bauhaus wrote:

> Stephen Leake <Stephe.Leake@nasa.gov> wrote:
> : I'm considering moving my library to either SourceForge or Savannah. I
> : was leaning towards Savannah, but then someone pointed out that being
> : on SourceForge makes it easier for others to find, which is an
> : important point.
> 
> Did he try?
> 
> Try Google with search terms "Ada", "library", "Leake".
> Or try the Ada wide search engine with "library", and "Leake".
> :-)

And how is this faster or more precice then bookmarking:

http://sourceforge.net/softwaremap/trove_list.php?form_cat=163

Epeacialy now that spammers with there link-farms have startet to break
google?

With Regards

Martin

-- 
mailto://krischik@users.sourceforge.net
http://www.ada.krischik.com

Re: SourceForge vs Savannah

[Georg Bauhaus]

Martin Krischik <krischik@users.sourceforge.net> wrote:
:> Try Google with search terms "Ada", "library", "Leake".
:> Or try the Ada wide search engine with "library", and "Leake".
:> :-)
: 
: And how is this faster or more precice then bookmarking:
: 
: http://sourceforge.net/softwaremap/trove_list.php?form_cat=163

The point is that _the net_ does not need a central committee-like
thing of software repository in order to work (not wanting to say that
sourceforge's services aren't useful.)
In particular if people care about their software and cross-link,
you can enter any web anywhere you like and you will find what
you have been looking for, once you have a starting point
(like the ones provided by Google, sourceforge, or the Ada wide
search engine, or ...). This is a property of networks!


: Epeacialy now that spammers with there link-farms have startet to break
: google?

To me that is a political problem of stunning unawareness rather
than a technical one. Consider risk: what if the net parasites
start cracking sourceforge?


Georg

Re: SourceForge vs Savannah

[Christopher Browne]

After a long battle with technology,Stephen Leake <Stephe.Leake@nasa.gov>, an earthling, wrote:
> I'm considering moving my library to either SourceForge or Savannah. I
> was leaning towards Savannah, but then someone pointed out that being
> on SourceForge makes it easier for others to find, which is an
> important point.

That seems odd.

Google can as easily find projects in one place as in the other.

I would think it a good idea to be skeptical of the permanence of
either; nothing should prevent maintaining a CVS archive in _both_
places...
-- 
(format nil "~S@~S" "cbbrowne" "cbbrowne.com")
http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/oses.html
Yes, for sparkling white chip prints, use low SUDSing DRAW....

Re: SourceForge vs Savannah

[Preben Randhol]

On 2003-10-11, Martin Krischik <krischik@users.sourceforge.net> wrote:
>
> Not realy for a all in one library i am willing to switch from LGPL to
> GMGPL. 

It must be GMGPL yes.

Preben

Re: SourceForge vs Savannah

[Martin Krischik]

Georg Bauhaus wrote:

> Martin Krischik <krischik@users.sourceforge.net> wrote:
> : Epeacialy now that spammers with there link-farms have startet to break
> : google?
> 
> To me that is a political problem of stunning unawareness rather
> than a technical one. Consider risk: what if the net parasites
> start cracking sourceforge?

Since Trov searches are static that should be quite difficult. Mind you,
static Google searches are OK as well:

http://directory.google.com/Top/Computers/Programming/Languages/Ada/

With Regards

Martin

-- 
mailto://krischik@users.sourceforge.net
http://www.ada.krischik.com

Re: SourceForge vs Savannah

[Martin Krischik]

Preben Randhol wrote:

> On 2003-10-11, Martin Krischik <krischik@users.sourceforge.net> wrote:
>>
>> Not realy for a all in one library i am willing to switch from LGPL to
>> GMGPL.
> 
> It must be GMGPL yes.

Why?

With Regards

Martin

-- 
mailto://krischik@users.sourceforge.net
http://www.ada.krischik.com

Re: SourceForge vs Savannah

[Preben Randhol]

On 2003-10-13, Martin Krischik <krischik@users.sourceforge.net> wrote:
> Preben Randhol wrote:
>
>> On 2003-10-11, Martin Krischik <krischik@users.sourceforge.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Not realy for a all in one library i am willing to switch from LGPL to
>>> GMGPL.
>> 
>> It must be GMGPL yes.
>
> Why?

Sorry I was reading GPL or GMGPL.

Preben