Ada IDE

Ada IDE

[Jean-David Tr�panier]

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I am learning Ada and I wondering if there is any good application on Win95
to compile and manage Ada project like MS Visual Studio?

Thanks

Jean-David Tr�panier
(JDT@hy.cgocable.ca)

Re: Ada IDE

[Preben Randhol]

On Wed, 14 Nov 2001 13:45:01 -0500, Jean-David Tr�panier wrote:
> I am learning Ada and I wondering if there is any good application on Win95
> to compile and manage Ada project like MS Visual Studio?

You can try adaGide. 
You find it from here: http://home.trouwweb.nl/Jerry/compilers.html

There is also a very nice debugger called GVD: 
http://libre.act-europe.fr/gvd/

Preben

Re: Ada IDE

[Pascal Obry]

Preben Randhol <randhol+abuse@pvv.org> writes:

> On Wed, 14 Nov 2001 13:45:01 -0500, Jean-David Tr�panier wrote:
> > I am learning Ada and I wondering if there is any good application on Win95
> > to compile and manage Ada project like MS Visual Studio?
> 
> You can try adaGide. 
> You find it from here: http://home.trouwweb.nl/Jerry/compilers.html

No AdaGide is a misleading pointer. It is ok to compile but not to "manage Ada
project like MS Visual Studio" ! For this I see either GLIDE, far from MS
Visual Studio look-and-feel but with project management features, or Aonix
ObjectAda which is certainly looking very much like MS Visual Studio.

> There is also a very nice debugger called GVD: 
> http://libre.act-europe.fr/gvd/

Agreed.

Pascal.

-- 

--|------------------------------------------------------
--| Pascal Obry                           Team-Ada Member
--| 45, rue Gabriel Peri - 78114 Magny Les Hameaux FRANCE
--|------------------------------------------------------
--|         http://perso.wanadoo.fr/pascal.obry
--|
--| "The best way to travel is by means of imagination"

Re: Ada IDE

[Preben Randhol]

On 14 Nov 2001 22:01:50 +0100, Pascal Obry wrote:

> No AdaGide is a misleading pointer. It is ok to compile but not to "manage Ada
> project like MS Visual Studio" ! For this I see either GLIDE, far from MS

OK. I have never used/seen MS Visual Studio. Glide is probably nice if
you have the money to buy a supported version of Gnat (At least I cannot
find any info that it is otherwise available on the gnat web-site. Wish
they had better screen shots so you could actually see what it is too :-(
)

Preben

Re: Ada IDE

[Wilhelm Spickermann]

--On Donnerstag, November 15, 2001 07:36:47 +0000 Preben Randhol 
<randhol+abuse@pvv.org> wrote:

> Glide is probably nice if
> you have the money to buy a supported version of Gnat (At
> least I cannot find any info that it is otherwise available on
> the gnat web-site. Wish they had better screen shots so you
> could actually see what it is too :-( )

You use Linux IIRC. At least the gnat-RPMs from ALT contain 
glide...

(But if you still want screen shots, I can make some.)

Wilhelm

Re: Ada IDE

[Preben Randhol]

On Thu, 15 Nov 2001 13:29:10 +0100, Wilhelm Spickermann wrote:
> 
> 
> --On Donnerstag, November 15, 2001 07:36:47 +0000 Preben Randhol 
><randhol+abuse@pvv.org> wrote:
> 
>> Glide is probably nice if
>> you have the money to buy a supported version of Gnat (At
>> least I cannot find any info that it is otherwise available on
>> the gnat web-site. Wish they had better screen shots so you
>> could actually see what it is too :-( )
> 
> You use Linux IIRC. At least the gnat-RPMs from ALT contain 
> glide...

Hmm, this is not in the Debian package. But does Glide use Emacs?

Preben

Re: Ada IDE

[Wilhelm Spickermann]

--On Donnerstag, November 15, 2001 13:24:25 +0000 Preben Randhol 
<randhol+abuse@pvv.org> wrote:

> Hmm, this is not in the Debian package. But does Glide use
> Emacs?

Yes, it´s (in the ALT RPM) a script which checks for emacs, 
xemacs (just to tell that it it doesn´t work properly with 
xemacs) and starts a program called glideint with the path to 
the emacs binary as a parameter. What you really see is an emacs 
with ada-mode, project-files, an additional window showing 
directories, files, procedures, ...

Wilhelm

Re: Ada IDE

[Preben Randhol]

On Thu, 15 Nov 2001 16:10:08 +0100, Wilhelm Spickermann wrote:
> 
> Yes, it�s (in the ALT RPM) a script which checks for emacs, 
> xemacs (just to tell that it it doesn�t work properly with 
> xemacs) and starts a program called glideint with the path to 
> the emacs binary as a parameter. What you really see is an emacs 
> with ada-mode, project-files, an additional window showing 
> directories, files, procedures, ...

Ah :-) I use vim. One of them ;-)

Preben

Re: Ada IDE

[Johannes Lechner]

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Hi!

> I am learning Ada and I wondering if there is any good application on Win95
> to compile and manage Ada project like MS Visual Studio?

Yeah, there is! Take a look at ObjectADA:
http://www.aonix.com/content/products/objectada/windows.html
The "Special Edition" is free of charge, due to some restrictions.

Greets,
--
Johannes Lechner � Mail@J-Lechner.de � PGP KeyID: 0x08E0DD38 � ICQ: 55872521

Re: Ada IDE

[Ted Dennison]

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In article <a%yI7.37525$Y54.1694464@weber.videotron.net>, Jean-David Tr�panier
says...
>
>I am learning Ada and I wondering if there is any good application on Win95
>to compile and manage Ada project like MS Visual Studio?

ObjectAda's IDE seems to be modeled on VisualStudio. 

---
T.E.D.    homepage   - http://www.telepath.com/dennison/Ted/TED.html

No trees were killed in the sending of this message. 
However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

Re: Ada IDE

[Michal Nowak]

>I am learning Ada and I wondering if there is any good application on
>Win95
>to compile and manage Ada project like MS Visual Studio?

Something like MS Visual Studio is Object Ada from Aonix.
Special Edition is available for free from their website, at:
http://www.aonix.com/content/products/objectada/windows.html

However this free version has some limitations (no more than 
2000 lines of code and no more than 35 tasks).

Mikeu
-----------------------------------------
                             ____|
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  O                                  |
 o>>        Mike Nowak               |
 T                                   |
/ >       vinnie@inetia.pl           |
http://www.geocities.com/vinnie14pl _|__

Re: Ada IDE

[Marin David Condic]

And no GUI builder. Rumor has it you can have the full-up Professional
edition for $595.00

MDC

--
Marin David Condic
Senior Software Engineer
Pace Micro Technology Americas    www.pacemicro.com
Enabling the digital revolution
e-Mail:    marin.condic@pacemicro.com
Web:      http://www.mcondic.com/


"Michal Nowak" <vinnie@inetia.pl> wrote in message
news:mailman.1005765434.1080.comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org...
>
> However this free version has some limitations (no more than
> 2000 lines of code and no more than 35 tasks).
>

Re: Ada IDE

[Michal Nowak]

On 01-11-14 at 16:40 Marin David Condic wrote:

>And no GUI builder. Rumor has it you can have the full-up Professional
>edition for $595.00
>
>MDC

Being a student a having GNAT with all addtions I have no need to
buy it now. However this price sounds very attractive (or is it
a rumour?). And it shows, that Ada compilers do not have to cost
several thousands of dollars.

Mike
-----------------------------------------
                             ____|
                             \%/ |~~\
  O                                  |
 o>>        Mike Nowak               |
 T                                   |
/ >       vinnie@inetia.pl           |
http://www.geocities.com/vinnie14pl _|__

Re: Ada IDE

[Marin David Condic]

I sent them an e-mail to ask about getting a version with theGUI builder -
this is the price quote I received. I assume all the customary disclaimers
apply - subject to change without notice, etc...

It is a competitive price with MSVC++, and the environment is immediately
familiar to those who know MSVC++. (It would be nice to see something
similar with GNAT - not *identical* since there are things I don't like with
the MSVC++ style - but with some of the same capabilities.)

I'm a little disappointed that the GUI builder does not seem to come with
the distribution - or if it does, it doesn't seem to be integrated with the
IDE as it is in MSVC++. (I really have not got the time just now to do a
really good evaluation of this! Eventually, I'll find that elusive Round
Tuit.) The IDE is also not nearly as spiffy - it doesn't break open package
specs etc on the left-hand-side and let you point-n-click navigate to items
within a package. I have not driven around the debugger to see if it is as
spiffy as the one in MSVC++, but then again, this is *Ada* so I wouldn't
expect to need it nearly so badly.

I ran a little "Hello World" app I wrote for GNAT through it. The program
basically attempts to display as many attributes as it can so that you can
find out about implementation details. Several things wouldn't compile.
Several other things generated constraint errors. I didn't try to analyze
all the reasons in depth (it may be "perfectly legal" for an implementation
to do it, but I've often harped about how sometimes "perfectly legal" =
"totally useless" :-) If anybody is interested, I'll post the code here.

I was a little disappointed that it didn't support Long_Long_Float.
Basically, you've only got 64 bit floats on a machine that will handle
80-bit floats. Maybe you can Roll Your Own - I didn't check. Also no
Long_Long_Integer - limited to 32 bits. If you care, there's no Short_Float
either. I don't understand these things being missing since essentially the
ARM would let you define things like Long_Long_Float = Long_Float so it
shouldn't really cost anything. At least code that used it would compile.

Fixed point attributes are also more narrow than on GNAT. Time, Modular
numbers, etc. have tighter allowed ranges/accuracies. Storage elements and
Streams look the same.

Just a FWIW kind of comparison - the math characteristics seem to be more
limited than on GNAT given the same hardware. This may allow for better
optimized code, but I would think that if you used the same size things in
GNAT, you ought to get similarly tight code - but I've never tested that
hypothesis. And in most cases, on a PC, I really don't care that much if the
resultant code is optimal - just so long as it isn't horrible.

MDC
--
Marin David Condic
Senior Software Engineer
Pace Micro Technology Americas    www.pacemicro.com
Enabling the digital revolution
e-Mail:    marin.condic@pacemicro.com
Web:      http://www.mcondic.com/


"Michal Nowak" <vinnie@inetia.pl> wrote in message
news:mailman.1005902126.22826.comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org...
> On 01-11-14 at 16:40 Marin David Condic wrote:
>
> >And no GUI builder. Rumor has it you can have the full-up Professional
> >edition for $595.00
> >
> >MDC
>
> Being a student a having GNAT with all addtions I have no need to
> buy it now. However this price sounds very attractive (or is it
> a rumour?). And it shows, that Ada compilers do not have to cost
> several thousands of dollars.

Re: Ada IDE

[Michal Nowak]

On 01-11-16 at 10:58 Marin David Condic wrote:

>It is a competitive price with MSVC++, and the environment is immediately
>familiar to those who know MSVC++. (It would be nice to see something
>similar with GNAT - not *identical* since there are things I don't like
>with
>the MSVC++ style - but with some of the same capabilities.)
>
>I'm a little disappointed that the GUI builder does not seem to come with
>the distribution - or if it does, it doesn't seem to be integrated with the
>IDE as it is in MSVC++. (I really have not got the time just now to do a
>really good evaluation of this! Eventually, I'll find that elusive Round
>Tuit.) The IDE is also not nearly as spiffy - it doesn't break open package
>specs etc on the left-hand-side and let you point-n-click navigate to items
>within a package. I have not driven around the debugger to see if it is as
>spiffy as the one in MSVC++, but then again, this is *Ada* so I wouldn't
>expect to need it nearly so badly.

It is in some way integrated - in my Sepcial Edition v7.1 it is under
Tools->GUI Builder. In fact, it fires separated application for building
all this graphical stuff (as I remember, in MSVC it was tightly integreated
with IDE). What I found nice in GUI Builder, that it works in very similiar
way, to this from Borland's products. Especially the window 'Project Manager'
with properties for these graphical elemnts makes changes quick and easy.
Entering code for events associated with objects is also familiar from
Borland's builders. There are about 20 of controls, which should be
enough for most applications (as I remember, there were lots of them in
Delphi or C++ Builder, I have no access to these tool at the moment).
I found easy description of how to build first GUI application, but
I couldn't do it. For some reasons, I have no possibility (the option in
menu is always disabled) to save the GUI project and use it with program.
Maybe this is because of limited edition - so I just have the smell
of graphical application...
The plus of the GUI builder is that all controls are "windows-like".
It may sound strange, but when I pointed Jeffrey Carter's Mine Detector
Game to some of my friends (who are just typical computer users and
have nothing common with operating systems other than Windows), they
said, that they felt very strange and have troubles to get familiar with
GTK look. After some time, they still look strange at this such GUI.

In general, I found it easier to use than MSVC++. I had no trouble to
build simple application (although it was no-GUI one, there should be no
trouble in building such one). As I remember, when I fired MSVC for the
first time I felt terribly lost and spent some time in discovering what
is going on there. I had no such troubles with OA.

I didn't write any windows GUI apllication under GNAT yet, so I don't
know how it goes with CLAW or GWindows. Right know I'm staying with
GNAT, but in the future OA may be worthy buying. It is a fine product.

Mike
-----------------------------------------
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/ >       vinnie@inetia.pl           |
http://www.geocities.com/vinnie14pl _|__

Windows-ish Mine Detector, was Re: Ada IDE

[tmoran]

> It may sound strange, but when I pointed Jeffrey Carter's Mine Detector
> Game to some of my friends (who are just typical computer users and
> have nothing common with operating systems other than Windows), they
> said, that they felt very strange and have troubles to get familiar with
> GTK look. After some time, they still look strange at this such GUI.
  As an exercise I modified the user interface package user_if.ad?  to
create a Windows-ish version.  Windmine, a version using the free
introductory version of Claw, has been kindly posted by David Botton at
www.adapower.com   Search for "Mine Detector".  No changes were required
in the game logic packages.

Re: Ada IDE

[John English]

"Jean-David Tr�panier" wrote:
> 
> I am learning Ada and I wondering if there is any good application on Win95
> to compile and manage Ada project like MS Visual Studio?

Object Ada (www.aonix.com) looks amazingly similar to Visual Studio.
It's a commercial product, but there's a free version you can download.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
 John English              | mailto:je@brighton.ac.uk
 Senior Lecturer           | http://www.comp.it.bton.ac.uk/je
 Dept. of Computing        | ** NON-PROFIT CD FOR CS STUDENTS **
 University of Brighton    |    -- see http://burks.bton.ac.uk
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Ada IDE

[Britt Snodgrass]

John English <je@brighton.ac.uk> wrote in message news:<3BF3F574.6394CDF9@brighton.ac.uk>...
> "Jean-David Tr�panier" wrote:
> > 
> > I am learning Ada and I wondering if there is any good application on Win95
> > to compile and manage Ada project like MS Visual Studio?
> 
> Object Ada (www.aonix.com) looks amazingly similar to Visual Studio.
> It's a commercial product, but there's a free version you can download.

Yes, the free version (ObjectAda 7.2.1 Special Edition) provides a
very nice editor for Ada and other languages.  It is also trivial to
use the ObjectAda editor as a front end for GNAT 3.13p by adding a
call to gnatmake to the Tools menu.  For learning purposes, it is
often helpful to be able to submit the same source file to two
different Ada compilers.  The free version has some program size
restrictions but I don't find them to be a problem for most home or
student projects.

The free OA 7.2.1 SE is can be downloaded from:

http://www.aonix.com/content/products/objectada/windows.html or
http://www.aonix.com/content/downloads/objectada/full_721.zip (a very
big file)

Britt

re: Ada IDE

[Soeren.Henssel-Rasmussen]

As a generel tool you might have a look on Eclipse Open Source Project (=>
http://eclipse.org/) from IBM. It requires a quite labours registration
process but the tool is worth it. There is no direct Ada support though, but
it is easy to make your own configuration.

/søren
Søren Henssel-Rasmussen 
Nokia Mobile Phones, R&D Copenhagen 

Re: Ada IDE

[Maxim Reznik]

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<Soeren.Henssel-Rasmussen@nokia.com> wrote in message news:mailman.1005814193.21316.comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org...
>As a generel tool you might have a look on Eclipse Open Source Project (=>
>http://eclipse.org/) from IBM. It requires a quite labours registration
>process but the tool is worth it. There is no direct Ada support though, but
>it is easy to make your own configuration.

>/s�ren
>S�ren Henssel-Rasmussen
>Nokia Mobile Phones, R&D Copenhagen

easy to make ???
It seems you need 6M of code to have working Java Developing Tool.
I think Ada support will have about the same amount of code.

But itself Eclipse looks very impressive. It would be nice to have
Ada support in it. It works rather fast on my spare computer
(unlike other Java applications).

I think it could be possible to use JGNAT to develop Ada support Plugin!


--
Maxim Reznik

ada IDE

[Ananth the Boss]

we are involved in development of safety critical software for flight
apps. can ny one say which is the best IDE for ADA for development of
flight software

Re: ada IDE

[wangcity]

> 	IOW: it is a highly personal decision... With both AdaGIDE and the
> GPL GPS available to me, I still find the minimal AdaGIDE more useful
> for editing... (though GPS does have a nice search capability).


where can download the two Ada IDE software?
thanks!

wangcity@gmail.com

Re: ada IDE

[Peter Hermann]

wangcity@gmail.com wrote:
> where can download the two Ada IDE software?

http://www.martincarlisle.com/adagide.html

-- 
--Peter.Hermann@ihr.uni-stuttgart.de                (+49)0711-685-87244
--Nobelstr.19 Raum 0.030, D-70569 Stuttgart IHR Hoechstleistungsrechnen
--http://www.ihr.uni-stuttgart.de/                   Fax  0711-89238279

Re: ada IDE

[Justin Gombos]

Mr. Bieber's answer is a good one.  I just wanted to add that some
IDEs are better than others when it comes to supporting external
editors.  Whatever direction you take should not inhibit users from
using their preferred editors.  Particularly users who have strong
emacs or vi skills are going to be more efficient than GUI users in
terms of text generation; and you'll want to leverage that.

Emacs with adamode is a good IDE on its own, however I'm not sure if
it would be straight forward to configure emacs to spawn instances of
another editor for non-emacs users.

-- 
PM instructions: do a C4esar Ciph3r on my address; retain punctuation.

Re: ada IDE

[Simon Wright]

Justin Gombos <rpbkbq.xax.gld@uluv.kbq> writes:

> Emacs with adamode is a good IDE on its own, however I'm not sure if
> it would be straight forward to configure emacs to spawn instances
> of another editor for non-emacs users.

I understand that GPS can be configured to use an external editor (eg
emacs).

OP: for a tryout of (nearly) the latest GNAT software, go to
http://libre.adacore.com/ for GNAT and GPS; note this GNAT is not
licensed suitably for commercial development, for that you need to pay
-- the same site gives you pointers to getting evaluations of paid-for
support for AdaCore's product, but of course there are other vendors
-- Aonix for example.

Re: ada IDE

[Georg Bauhaus]

Simon Wright wrote:


> http://libre.adacore.com/ for GNAT and GPS; note this GNAT is not
> licensed suitably for commercial development,

This GNAT is licensed, and if the license (GPL) meets your
business needs (and you can be sure you don't need support
from AdaCore), then for sure this GNAT is suitable for
commercial development.

 > but of course there are other vendors
> -- Aonix for example.

Yes.

Re: ada IDE

[Simon Wright]

Georg Bauhaus <bauhaus@futureapps.de> writes:

> Simon Wright wrote:
>
>> http://libre.adacore.com/ for GNAT and GPS; note this GNAT is not
>> licensed suitably for commercial development,
>
> This GNAT is licensed, and if the license (GPL) meets your
> business needs (and you can be sure you don't need support
> from AdaCore), then for sure this GNAT is suitable for
> commercial development.

Yes, I was going to add that but the thought got lost on the way
.. sorry, all.

Re: ada IDE

[Jeffrey Creem]

Ananth the Boss wrote:
> we are involved in development of safety critical software for flight
> apps. can ny one say which is the best IDE for ADA for development of
> flight software
> 

If you are doing safety critical software (assuming you mean something 
like DO-178b level a or b) then the IDE is really secondary to the 
compiler/runtime. Pick that first and it will help guide you to an IDE. 
You probably can't pick the compiler/runtime (or perhaps OS) until you 
know what your hardware platform is (unless there is some flexibility 
there).

If you select something like Greenhills Ada with the Integrity OS then 
it would be silly to consider GPS.

There is really not enough in the question to respond to this all that 
clearly.


The high level choices will be something from

Greenhills/Greenhills
www.ghs.com (perhaps integrity (OS) with AdaMULT (compiler).
or

WindRiver/AdaCore
www.wrs.com with www.gnat.com (vxWorks with the ARINC 653 with GNAT).

or

BAE Systems/DDC-I

http://platformsolutions.na.baesystems.com:8080/CsLeos/CsLEOS.jsp

or

Aonix/Aonix

http://www.aonix.com/objectada.html


There might also be someting in the lynxos/GNAT cagegory to 
consider..not sure.

In any case, these seem to be the big players in the area.

Disclaimer -- I work at BAE SYSTEMS for my day job.

Re: ada IDE

[wangcity]

thank you of all
those info is very useful for me.
i will from gnat begin.

Re: ada IDE

[Chip and Allie Orange]

"Jeffrey Creem" <jeff@thecreems.com> wrote in message 
news:da9gh3-p7k.ln1@newserver.thecreems.com...
> Ananth the Boss wrote:
>> we are involved in development of safety critical software for flight
>> apps. can ny one say which is the best IDE for ADA for development of
>> flight software
>>
>
> If you are doing safety critical software (assuming you mean something 
> like DO-178b level a or b) then the IDE is really secondary to the 
> compiler/runtime. Pick that first and it will help guide you to an IDE. 
> You probably can't pick the compiler/runtime (or perhaps OS) until you 
> know what your hardware platform is (unless there is some flexibility 
> there).
>
> If you select something like Greenhills Ada with the Integrity OS then it 
> would be silly to consider GPS.
>
> There is really not enough in the question to respond to this all that 
> clearly.
>
>
> The high level choices will be something from
>
> Greenhills/Greenhills
> www.ghs.com (perhaps integrity (OS) with AdaMULT (compiler).
> or
>
> WindRiver/AdaCore
> www.wrs.com with www.gnat.com (vxWorks with the ARINC 653 with GNAT).
>
> or
>
> BAE Systems/DDC-I
>
> http://platformsolutions.na.baesystems.com:8080/CsLeos/CsLEOS.jsp
>
> or
>
> Aonix/Aonix
>
> http://www.aonix.com/objectada.html
>
>
> There might also be someting in the lynxos/GNAT cagegory to consider..not 
> sure.
>
> In any case, these seem to be the big players in the area.
>
I'm just learning Ada for some after-hours programming (not my day job).  I 
have a relative who works for the IBM/Rational group which puts out the Ada 
Apex system.

Just out of curiosity, why wouldn't they make your list?

Thanks.

Chip

Re: ada IDE

[Jeffrey Creem]

Chip and Allie Orange wrote:
> "Jeffrey Creem" <jeff@thecreems.com> wrote in message 
> news:da9gh3-p7k.ln1@newserver.thecreems.com...
> 
>>Ananth the Boss wrote:
>>
>>>we are involved in development of safety critical software for flight
>>>apps. can ny one say which is the best IDE for ADA for development of
>>>flight software
>>>
>>
>>If you are doing safety critical software (assuming you mean something 
>>like DO-178b level a or b) then the IDE is really secondary to the 
>>compiler/runtime. Pick that first and it will help guide you to an IDE. 
>>You probably can't pick the compiler/runtime (or perhaps OS) until you 
>>know what your hardware platform is (unless there is some flexibility 
>>there).
>>
>>If you select something like Greenhills Ada with the Integrity OS then it 
>>would be silly to consider GPS.
>>
>>There is really not enough in the question to respond to this all that 
>>clearly.
>>
>>
>>The high level choices will be something from
>>
>>Greenhills/Greenhills
>>www.ghs.com (perhaps integrity (OS) with AdaMULT (compiler).
>>or
>>
>>WindRiver/AdaCore
>>www.wrs.com with www.gnat.com (vxWorks with the ARINC 653 with GNAT).
>>
>>or
>>
>>BAE Systems/DDC-I
>>
>>http://platformsolutions.na.baesystems.com:8080/CsLeos/CsLEOS.jsp
>>
>>or
>>
>>Aonix/Aonix
>>
>>http://www.aonix.com/objectada.html
>>
>>
>>There might also be someting in the lynxos/GNAT cagegory to consider..not 
>>sure.
>>
>>In any case, these seem to be the big players in the area.
>>
> 
> I'm just learning Ada for some after-hours programming (not my day job).  I 
> have a relative who works for the IBM/Rational group which puts out the Ada 
> Apex system.
> 
> Just out of curiosity, why wouldn't they make your list?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Chip
> 
> 
> 

Good question. Truthfully, I probably should have included them.

I still use Apex in my day job (an older version of it)..There certainly 
are some nice features about it even though (at least the version I use) 
is really starting to show its age it is interesting that it has taken 
many years for other languages/tools/ide's to catch up to the level of 
integration that Apex had more than 10 years ago.

So, there certainly are some positives for this tool suite.

As for the negatives that probably partially led to me just forgetting 
to list them...

It appears that every time you contact ibm/rational sales to buy a tool 
they want to "craft a solution" for you that involves both expensive 
tools, expensive support services and a pile of things you don't want or 
need.


For example, take a look at the "off the shelf" options for Apex

http://www3.software.ibm.com/ibmdl/pub/software/rational/web/datasheets/ada.pdf

There are four choices.

The base edition is not right for the original question since one can 
reasonably assume the need of a cross compiler (because this is embedded 
flight software).

The "Embedded Developer" edition would just about fit the bill, but it 
is listed as "Solaris" only in the PDF file. This is generally a code 
word for "dead product we only still list because we still can manage to 
pawn off licenses on some legacy customer".

Each of the other two versions have "Enterprise" in the title. This is a 
code word for "big expensive tool that includes a lot of stuff that you 
probably don't want but allows is to bundle things to prevent you from 
justifying the use of the tools you really want from a different vendor".

In this case, it means it includes Rational Rose, TestMate, etc. (And of 
course Rose is slowly heading out since there are newer IBM design tools).


There are probably projects/companies for which this approach to selling 
tools works out really well. For me, it seems like their Ada products 
(or truthfully any of their single products) get lost in the noise of 
the "craft a solution" approach that the sales staff shows up with when 
talking about tools.

Here is another example. Interested in trials/beta's of the software.

Go here
http://www14.software.ibm.com/webapp/download/home.jsp?s=p

Hmm. No apex, no Ada, nothing embedded at all. But if you are 
maintaining a website  there is all sorts of stuff here.. I wonder where 
people get the idea that there is no commitment from the vendor to 
support the product...must just be me.

Now again, to be fair, this probably has as much to do with the types of 
customers that want those tools as it does with the commitment tool any 
particular tool...

Finally, here is the last reason.

Go to www.ibm.com - See the word Ada on the page...Hmm... Nope. Ok..Big 
company, click on software. See the work ada on the page...Nope..Ok big 
company. Click on products  by category. See the word Ada on the page? 
Nope, ok. Lots of tools. Click "Traditional Programming Languages". See 
the word Ada on the page? Yes!.. Yippie Got there. Of course, once you 
clock the "Learn About" link, the most up to date thing on the page 
looks like some announcement about IBM Rational Ada Developer Interface 
for AXI which is bindings for X-Windows Motif.....It feels so 90's.


Finally, even after a lot of clicking, one never does see any mention of 
DO-178B/Ada on any page and remember that was what the original poster 
was looking for.


Now, compare this to the other vendors I listed.

www.ghs.com - Ada on front page. DO-178B on front page

www.gnat.com - Ada allover the front page, new vxWorks on the front page 
(Active development). Ada 2006 information on front page (Active 
development) safety-critical on front page (original poster question). 
do-178b on front page.


csLEOS link combined with DDCI-compiler.
Ok. DO-178B on front page of Csleos link (no area but this is the OS 
company), Going to the compiler vendor Ada on front page. Safety 
critical on front page.


Going to Aonix. Ada on front page, DO-178B on front page.

So, all-in-all I think I stand by my original list which excluded IBM 
Apex. If the poster had just asked for "list some Ada IDEs" then maybe I 
would have listed them even giving the general concerns I have with the 
vendor.

But given that the original question was safety critical Ada, I think it 
was the right choice.

Re: ada IDE

[Chip and Allie Orange]

"Jeffrey Creem" <jeff@thecreems.com> wrote in message 
news:15rtl3-d12.ln1@newserver.thecreems.com...
> Chip and Allie Orange wrote:
>> "Jeffrey Creem" <jeff@thecreems.com> wrote in message 
>> news:da9gh3-p7k.ln1@newserver.thecreems.com...
>>
>>>Ananth the Boss wrote:
>>>
>>>>we are involved in development of safety critical software for flight
>>>>apps. can ny one say which is the best IDE for ADA for development of
>>>>flight software
>>>>
>>>
>>>If you are doing safety critical software (assuming you mean something 
>>>like DO-178b level a or b) then the IDE is really secondary to the 
>>>compiler/runtime. Pick that first and it will help guide you to an IDE. 
>>>You probably can't pick the compiler/runtime (or perhaps OS) until you 
>>>know what your hardware platform is (unless there is some flexibility 
>>>there).
>>>
>>>If you select something like Greenhills Ada with the Integrity OS then it 
>>>would be silly to consider GPS.
>>>
>>>There is really not enough in the question to respond to this all that 
>>>clearly.
>>>
>>>
>>>The high level choices will be something from
>>>
>>>Greenhills/Greenhills
>>>www.ghs.com (perhaps integrity (OS) with AdaMULT (compiler).
>>>or
>>>
>>>WindRiver/AdaCore
>>>www.wrs.com with www.gnat.com (vxWorks with the ARINC 653 with GNAT).
>>>
>>>or
>>>
>>>BAE Systems/DDC-I
>>>
>>>http://platformsolutions.na.baesystems.com:8080/CsLeos/CsLEOS.jsp
>>>
>>>or
>>>
>>>Aonix/Aonix
>>>
>>>http://www.aonix.com/objectada.html
>>>
>>>
>>>There might also be someting in the lynxos/GNAT cagegory to consider..not 
>>>sure.
>>>
>>>In any case, these seem to be the big players in the area.
>>>
>>
>> I'm just learning Ada for some after-hours programming (not my day job). 
>> I have a relative who works for the IBM/Rational group which puts out the 
>> Ada Apex system.
>>
>> Just out of curiosity, why wouldn't they make your list?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Chip
>>
>>
>>
>
> Good question. Truthfully, I probably should have included them.
>
> I still use Apex in my day job (an older version of it)..There certainly 
> are some nice features about it even though (at least the version I use) 
> is really starting to show its age it is interesting that it has taken 
> many years for other languages/tools/ide's to catch up to the level of 
> integration that Apex had more than 10 years ago.
>
> So, there certainly are some positives for this tool suite.
>
> As for the negatives that probably partially led to me just forgetting to 
> list them...
>
> It appears that every time you contact ibm/rational sales to buy a tool 
> they want to "craft a solution" for you that involves both expensive 
> tools, expensive support services and a pile of things you don't want or 
> need.
>
>
> For example, take a look at the "off the shelf" options for Apex
>
> http://www3.software.ibm.com/ibmdl/pub/software/rational/web/datasheets/ada.pdf
>
> There are four choices.
>
> The base edition is not right for the original question since one can 
> reasonably assume the need of a cross compiler (because this is embedded 
> flight software).
>
> The "Embedded Developer" edition would just about fit the bill, but it is 
> listed as "Solaris" only in the PDF file. This is generally a code word 
> for "dead product we only still list because we still can manage to pawn 
> off licenses on some legacy customer".
>
> Each of the other two versions have "Enterprise" in the title. This is a 
> code word for "big expensive tool that includes a lot of stuff that you 
> probably don't want but allows is to bundle things to prevent you from 
> justifying the use of the tools you really want from a different vendor".
>
> In this case, it means it includes Rational Rose, TestMate, etc. (And of 
> course Rose is slowly heading out since there are newer IBM design tools).
>
>
> There are probably projects/companies for which this approach to selling 
> tools works out really well. For me, it seems like their Ada products (or 
> truthfully any of their single products) get lost in the noise of the 
> "craft a solution" approach that the sales staff shows up with when 
> talking about tools.
>
> Here is another example. Interested in trials/beta's of the software.
>
> Go here
> http://www14.software.ibm.com/webapp/download/home.jsp?s=p
>
> Hmm. No apex, no Ada, nothing embedded at all. But if you are maintaining 
> a website  there is all sorts of stuff here.. I wonder where people get 
> the idea that there is no commitment from the vendor to support the 
> product...must just be me.
>
> Now again, to be fair, this probably has as much to do with the types of 
> customers that want those tools as it does with the commitment tool any 
> particular tool...
>
> Finally, here is the last reason.
>
> Go to www.ibm.com - See the word Ada on the page...Hmm... Nope. Ok..Big 
> company, click on software. See the work ada on the page...Nope..Ok big 
> company. Click on products  by category. See the word Ada on the page? 
> Nope, ok. Lots of tools. Click "Traditional Programming Languages". See 
> the word Ada on the page? Yes!.. Yippie Got there. Of course, once you 
> clock the "Learn About" link, the most up to date thing on the page looks 
> like some announcement about IBM Rational Ada Developer Interface for AXI 
> which is bindings for X-Windows Motif.....It feels so 90's.
>
>
> Finally, even after a lot of clicking, one never does see any mention of 
> DO-178B/Ada on any page and remember that was what the original poster was 
> looking for.
>
>
> Now, compare this to the other vendors I listed.
>
> www.ghs.com - Ada on front page. DO-178B on front page
>
> www.gnat.com - Ada allover the front page, new vxWorks on the front page 
> (Active development). Ada 2006 information on front page (Active 
> development) safety-critical on front page (original poster question). 
> do-178b on front page.
>
>
> csLEOS link combined with DDCI-compiler.
> Ok. DO-178B on front page of Csleos link (no area but this is the OS 
> company), Going to the compiler vendor Ada on front page. Safety critical 
> on front page.
>
>
> Going to Aonix. Ada on front page, DO-178B on front page.
>
> So, all-in-all I think I stand by my original list which excluded IBM 
> Apex. If the poster had just asked for "list some Ada IDEs" then maybe I 
> would have listed them even giving the general concerns I have with the 
> vendor.
>
> But given that the original question was safety critical Ada, I think it 
> was the right choice.
>
>
>

Thanks Jeffrey  for your thoughts ... Didn't mean to imply any criticism of 
your list, just needed some education and some opinions from someone not 
working for a vendor.

Chip

Re: ada IDE

[Jeffrey Creem]

Chip and Allie Orange wrote:

> 
> Thanks Jeffrey  for your thoughts ... Didn't mean to imply any criticism of 
> your list, just needed some education and some opinions from someone not 
> working for a vendor.
> 
> Chip
> 
> 
> 

Sorry if the response had a negative tone. I did not take the 
questioning in a negative light. (Even if the reponse carried a tone 
that made it sound like I did :)

Re: ada IDE

[Randy Brukardt]

"Jeffrey Creem" <jeff@thecreems.com> wrote in message
news:15rtl3-d12.ln1@newserver.thecreems.com...
...
> So, all-in-all I think I stand by my original list which excluded IBM
> Apex. If the poster had just asked for "list some Ada IDEs" then maybe I
> would have listed them even giving the general concerns I have with the
> vendor.

I wouldn't have been *quite* so negative. The technical team for Apex is
intact and continuing development of their products. (Their participation in
the ARG and in the ARA should make that clear.) The problem is that they
don't have *anyone* assigned to marketing/selling Ada at IBM. (The last
dedicated Ada sales guy left last summer.) It's a side project for anyone in
sales there, and thus it's visibility is very low.

The question comes down to buying the technical team. I don't know of many
better than that at IBM/Rational for Ada, and their support is reported to
be excellent (my own experiences with Claw agreed with that).

                           Randy Brukardt.