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From: gerhard.nospam@bigfoot.de (Gerhard Häring)
Subject: Re: Beginner's Language?
Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 08:23:10 +0200
Date: 2001-05-05T08:23:10+02:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <slrn9f7bf9.q9.gerhard.nospam@lilith.hqd-internal> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 9cukad$nn68@news-dxb

On Fri, 4 May 2001 20:12:21 +0400, Faisal Halim <faisal_halim@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Assalaamu 'alaikum,
>
>I would like to know if ADA is a good first language for a beginner, 
>especially when compared to Lisp and Perl, and BASIC.

You would not seriously consider Perl or BASIC for teaching the fundamentals of
programing, would you?

As to my background, I am a a cs student (I try my luck for the second time,
first time I was too distracted ...)

I think Ada 95 wouldn't be too bad for a first language, but I also think it's
not optimal. At my first uni (TU Munich, Germany) they used Gofer (a Haskell
dialect) in semester 1, then quickly introduced Java. At the Munich University
of Applied Science where I am now, they teach Java from the beginning.

I can say that I am not a great friend of making shortcuts in the education of
future software engineers. IMHO the people starting with Java from the start
(in our current lab project, the profs are using lots of XP techniques) try to
introduce too much too fast (OOP from day one, etc.).

I think a dynamically typed language is much better suited for a first language
(and little-to-medium sized projects, in general), because they provide for
much less frustration during learning and for a much more incremental style of
programming. You can try out lots of stuff in an interactive interpreter.

So, in your position I would look into Python (my favourite) or Scheme. Or
perhaps another functional language like Haskell (there is an interpreter
called Hugs).

If you want to read about Python as a beginners language, you could start at
http://www.python.org/cp4e Scheme would have the advantage of some nice
development environments well suited for students (DrScheme comes to mind),
more widely use in education (MIT, ...).

>Despite my 'O' Level qualification in Computers, please assume you are 
>answering a person totally devoid of computer concepts, as I would find 
>such  replies useful when answering queries from 7th grade students who are 
>interested in computers and programming, but have no idea of which language 
>to use.

7th grade? Please don't throw a big language like Ada at them. As I said,
dynamically typed languages with an interactive interpreter are IMHO less
frustrating. Especially in a course that lasts say 90 minutes, the
edit-compile-debug cycle wastes a lot of time.

Gerhard
-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de       registered Linux user #64239
web:    http://highqualdev.com              public key at homepage
public key fingerprint: DEC1 1D02 5743 1159 CD20  A4B6 7B22 6575 86AB 43C0
reduce(lambda x,y:x+y,map(lambda x:chr(ord(x)^42),tuple('zS^BED\nX_FOY\x0b')))



  parent reply	other threads:[~2001-05-05  6:23 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 232+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2001-05-04 16:12 Beginner's Language? Faisal Halim
2001-05-04 16:29 ` Marin David Condic
2001-05-04 17:14 ` chris.danx
2001-05-04 22:35 ` Jeffrey Carter
2001-05-05  1:51 ` raj
2001-05-05 14:51   ` Carl E Gundel
2001-05-05 18:12   ` Dodger
2001-05-05 19:06     ` Jochen Schmidt
2001-05-05 22:59       ` Randal L. Schwartz
2001-05-05 23:38         ` Jochen Schmidt
2001-05-08 16:01           ` John English
2001-05-08 18:37             ` Brian Rogoff
2001-05-09 11:31               ` John English
2001-05-09 14:33                 ` Ehud Lamm
2001-05-09 16:40             ` Charles Hixson
2001-05-06  2:19         ` Jeffrey Carter
2001-05-18 23:02       ` glauber
2001-05-05 20:09     ` Jeffrey Carter
2001-05-06  1:50     ` raj
2001-05-06  2:09       ` raj
2001-05-06  2:09       ` raj
2001-05-06 15:49         ` Randal L. Schwartz
2001-05-06 22:37           ` Multiparadigm Languages : (was Beginners Language) raj
2001-05-06 22:50           ` Beginner's Language? raj
2001-05-06 23:13           ` Multiparadigm Languages : (was Beginners Language) raj
2001-05-05 19:49   ` Beginner's Language? Larry Kilgallen
2001-05-05 22:52     ` Reinout Heeck
2001-05-06  0:03       ` Dale Stanbrough
2001-05-06  1:47         ` Reinout Heeck
2001-05-06  3:38           ` Dale Stanbrough
2001-05-06  4:05             ` Reinout Heeck
2001-05-06 10:49               ` SV: " Dan Andersson
2001-05-06 11:42                 ` Reinout Heeck
2001-05-06 13:31                   ` SV: " Dan Andersson
2001-05-06 20:17             ` Dave Harris
2001-05-07 10:41     ` Biep @ http://www.biep.org
2001-05-07 10:57       ` Andrew Cooke
2001-05-09 10:22         ` Biep @ http://www.biep.org/
2001-05-10  5:45           ` Raffael Cavallaro
2001-05-10  9:02           ` Jochen Schmidt
2001-05-07 14:24   ` Marin David Condic
2001-05-07 15:45     ` Friedrich Dominicus
2001-05-09  7:19       ` Espen Vestre
2001-05-09 13:55       ` Marin David Condic
2001-05-09 14:18         ` Ola Rinta-Koski
2001-05-09 15:53           ` Marin David Condic
2001-05-10 17:15           ` David Gillon
2001-05-10 19:50             ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-05-10 20:15             ` Marie-No�lle Baechler
2001-05-11  5:29             ` Friedrich Dominicus
2001-05-27 12:59               ` Alejandro R. Mosteo
2001-05-27 22:34                 ` Larry Elmore
2001-06-03 21:18                   ` Stefan Skoglund
2001-05-09 14:53         ` Biep @ http://www.biep.org/
2001-05-09 15:39         ` Friedrich Dominicus
2001-05-09 18:24           ` Andreas Krennmair
2001-05-09 23:01             ` Sashank Varma
2001-05-10  0:01               ` David Starner
2001-05-10  6:10                 ` Mark VandeWettering
2001-05-10  8:08                 ` FM
2001-05-10 15:07                 ` Eugene Zaikonnikov
2001-05-10 20:08                 ` David Thornley
2001-05-16 18:00                 ` Robert Posey
2001-05-16 18:19                   ` stephan
2001-05-21  4:15                     ` Lao Xiao Hai
2001-05-21 11:53                       ` raj
2001-05-23 10:33                         ` Liam Devlin
2001-05-21 21:30                       ` Marie-No�lle Baechler
2001-05-27 12:59                     ` Alejandro R. Mosteo
2001-05-30 20:26                     ` Florian Weimer
2001-05-30 21:56                       ` Johan Kullstam
2001-05-31  9:01                         ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2001-05-31 13:29                           ` Raymond Toy
2001-05-31 13:51                             ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2001-05-16 20:44                   ` brlewis
2001-05-21  5:09                   ` vsync
2001-05-10  6:06             ` Mark VandeWettering
2001-05-10  7:57               ` Andrew Bromage
2001-05-10  8:55                 ` Iain McNaughton
2001-05-15  2:02                   ` Rob Warnock
2001-05-15 11:56                     ` Andreas Krennmair
2001-05-15 17:14                       ` FM
2001-05-15 18:08                         ` Andreas Krennmair
2001-05-15 20:37                           ` FM
2001-05-16 17:56                             ` Andreas Krennmair
2001-05-17  3:06                               ` FM
     [not found]                 ` <3AFA5A92.5D4F191C@info.unicaen.fr>
     [not found]                   ` <3AFAD076.C5F31B44@research.bell-labs.com>
     [not found]                     ` <m37kz1utg9.fsf@chaos.resnet.gatech.edu>
2001-06-05 13:03                       ` Biep @ http://www.biep.org/
2001-05-10 13:03               ` John English
2001-05-10 13:44                 ` Michael Livshin
2001-05-16 17:59                   ` Lex Spoon
2001-05-22 14:16                     ` John English
2001-05-22 16:40                       ` Poetry in source code (was: Beginner's Language?) Ted Dennison
2001-05-23 15:24                         ` John English
2001-05-23 17:34                           ` Preben Randhol
2001-05-22 23:31                       ` Beginner's Language? raj
2001-05-23  0:44                       ` Chad R. Meiners
2001-05-28  0:17                       ` Lao Xiao Hai
2001-05-28 19:39                         ` poetry in PL's? (was: Beginner's Language?) Lex Spoon
2001-05-29 13:44                           ` Ted Dennison
2001-05-30 20:34                         ` Beginner's Language? Florian Weimer
2001-05-10  7:28             ` FM
2001-05-10  8:51               ` Jochen Schmidt
2001-05-10 21:32                 ` FM
2001-05-11  0:26                   ` James Rogers
2001-05-12  2:56                 ` FM
2001-05-12 17:06                 ` FM
2001-05-11 15:55               ` Andreas Krennmair
2001-05-11 23:50                 ` [OT] Software Engineering at 14 (was: Re: Beginner's Language?) FM
2001-05-12 11:59                   ` raj
2001-05-12 14:17                     ` Andrew Cooke
2001-05-12 17:09                       ` FM
2001-05-12 14:40                     ` Andreas Krennmair
2001-05-13  1:44                       ` raj
2001-05-13  8:28                         ` [OT] Software Engineering at 14 Markus Mottl
2001-05-13 10:41                           ` Mark Wotton
2001-05-13 12:04                             ` Markus Mottl
2001-05-13 12:48                               ` Mark Wotton
2001-05-13 13:05                                 ` Daniel C. Wang
2001-05-13 22:09                           ` FM
2001-05-13 23:44                             ` Markus Mottl
2001-05-12 19:23                     ` [OT] Software Engineering at 14 (was: Re: Beginner's Language?) Marco Antoniotti
2001-05-12 22:38                     ` [OT] Software Engineering at 14 Markus Mottl
2001-05-13  2:48                     ` [OT] Software Engineering at 14 (was: Re: Beginner's Language?) Jorn W Janneck
2001-05-13  3:00                       ` raj
2001-05-13  8:59                         ` [OT] Software Engineering at 14 Markus Mottl
2001-05-13 11:38                           ` Karel Thönissen
2001-05-13 12:46                             ` Markus Mottl
2001-05-13 14:29                               ` Karel Thönissen
2001-05-13  9:44                         ` [OT] Software Engineering at 14 (was: Re: Beginner's Language?) Andrew Bromage
2001-05-14  7:21                         ` Jorn W Janneck
2001-05-15 22:53                     ` [OT] Software Engineering at 14 Reini Urban
2001-05-15 23:24                       ` FM
2001-05-12 14:33                   ` [OT] Software Engineering at 14 (was: Re: Beginner's Language?) Andreas Krennmair
2001-05-12 20:37                     ` FM
2001-05-12 21:56                       ` Andreas Krennmair
2001-05-12 23:50                         ` FM
2001-05-13  8:02                           ` Andreas Krennmair
2001-05-13 20:55                             ` FM
2001-05-14  9:27                       ` Biep @ http://www.biep.org/
2001-05-13  8:29                     ` thi
2001-05-12 17:20                   ` [OT] Software Engineering at 14 Markus Mottl
2001-05-13 20:15                   ` [OT] Software Engineering at 14 (was: Re: Beginner's Language?) Peter Schuller
2001-05-13 21:54                     ` FM
2001-05-14  4:42                       ` Peter Schuller
2001-05-14  6:21                         ` FM
2001-05-14 18:37                           ` Peter Schuller
2001-05-14 21:18                             ` FM
2001-05-14 22:45                               ` Peter Schuller
2001-05-15  7:49                             ` David Rush
2001-05-15 19:29                               ` Peter Schuller
2001-05-17 15:21                                 ` David Rush
2001-05-17 23:19                                   ` Peter Schuller
2001-05-18  9:50                                     ` Biep @ http://www.biep.org/
2001-05-14  6:30                         ` Peter Schuller
2001-05-14 12:21                         ` James A. Robertson
2001-05-14 10:15                     ` Biep @ http://www.biep.org/
2001-05-15  9:19                 ` Beginner's Language? Siegfried Gonzi
2001-05-15  9:47                   ` Preben Randhol
2001-05-15 12:06                   ` Andreas Krennmair
2001-05-10  8:11             ` Friedrich Dominicus
2001-05-10 11:09             ` Markus Mottl
2001-05-10 14:44             ` Eugene Zaikonnikov
2001-05-10 15:34             ` ssthapa
2001-05-14 19:58             ` Johan Kullstam
2001-05-14 20:14               ` Matthias Blume
2001-05-16 16:16                 ` J�rgen Exner
2001-05-16 20:49                   ` Matthias Blume
2001-05-17  0:22                     ` Boris Smilga
2001-05-17  1:29                     ` a
2001-05-17  3:07                       ` FM
2001-05-17 13:56                       ` Matthias Blume
2001-05-17 17:54                         ` J�rgen Exner
2001-05-09 22:56         ` David Thornley
2001-05-10  9:16           ` Ola Rinta-Koski
2001-05-10 20:17             ` David Thornley
2001-05-10  5:53         ` Mark VandeWettering
2001-05-10  9:22         ` Francis Leboutte
2001-05-10 15:13         ` Georg Bauhaus
2001-05-10 16:49           ` Jochen Schmidt
2001-05-10 17:04             ` Friedrich Dominicus
2001-05-11  7:34           ` Ola Rinta-Koski
2001-05-11 14:47             ` Georg Bauhaus
2001-05-10 15:17         ` brlewis
2001-05-08  0:15     ` Dodger
2001-05-16 16:55       ` Lex Spoon
2001-05-16 17:42         ` Markus Kliegl
2001-05-19 14:24           ` Lex Spoon
2001-05-08  7:11     ` Tarjei T. Jensen
2001-05-08  7:23       ` ronald schroder
2001-05-16 17:53         ` Lex Spoon
2001-05-17  0:54           ` Tim May
2001-05-17  1:15             ` Gary Scott
2001-05-17  7:20               ` Tom Lake
2001-05-19 14:40                 ` Lex Spoon
2001-05-17  8:20           ` Biep @ http://www.biep.org/
2001-05-17 12:43             ` illya
2001-05-08 13:38       ` Marin David Condic
2001-05-08 23:46         ` Beginner's Ide raj
2001-05-09 14:00           ` Marin David Condic
2001-05-09 14:36             ` chris.danx
2001-05-09 19:09               ` Charles Hixson
2001-05-09 19:06           ` Charles Hixson
2001-05-10  6:20             ` Pascal Obry
2001-05-10 15:31               ` Charles Hixson
2001-05-10 16:12                 ` James Rogers
2001-05-10 16:01             ` Stephen Leake
2001-05-11  1:54               ` Retraction : ( Was: Beginner's Ide) raj
2001-05-11 11:44               ` Beginner's Ide Georg Bauhaus
2001-05-11 21:30                 ` Stephen Leake
2001-05-12 17:15                   ` Simon Wright
2001-05-09  5:32     ` Beginner's Language? Simon Wright
2001-05-10 21:50       ` Gary Scott
2001-05-11  2:14       ` raj
2001-05-10  8:02   ` OZ as a beginners' banguage? Biep @ http://www.biep.org/
2001-05-10  8:06     ` Andrew Cooke
2001-05-11 11:13     ` Torbjörn Lager
2001-05-05  6:23 ` Gerhard Häring [this message]
2001-05-05  9:06   ` Beginner's Language? David Starner
2001-05-05 11:05     ` chris.danx
2001-05-05 22:12       ` Nacho Robledo
2001-05-06 13:14     ` Florian Weimer
2001-05-06 19:15       ` David Starner
2001-05-06 15:17 ` DuckE
2001-05-06 20:58 ` Frank
2001-05-06 21:12 ` Kenneth Almquist
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2001-05-10  4:35 yamir
2001-05-31  0:41 robin
2001-05-31  4:15 ` Frank A. Adrian
2001-05-31 15:34   ` Wes Groleau
2001-05-31 19:22     ` David Thornley
2001-06-02 13:37   ` Johan Kullstam
2001-06-02 15:46     ` Frank A. Adrian
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