* Poll: Qt4Ada as alternative to GtkAda @ 2006-07-27 23:08 Yves Bailly 2006-07-28 7:02 ` vgodunko ` (3 more replies) 0 siblings, 4 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: Yves Bailly @ 2006-07-27 23:08 UTC (permalink / raw) Hello all, I just read the thread "Answer of Request to AdaCore on licensing Status of GtkAda 2.4.0", in which a statement from Dmitry A. Kazakov kept my attention, quoting: "GtkAda could be reworked from scratch. It must be boring and a lot of work, but not much complex." Well, what about a binding to the Qt C++ library? Something more "subtle" than the one currently available at http://freehost07.websamba.com/guibuilder/ ...in which the type hierarchy doesn't exactly matches the one from the library. It would also make use of Ada2005 new features. So here's the poll: who would be interested in such a binding, who would be interested in being able to write GUI code using a Qt-like API? Corollary: who would be ready to help in such a huge (but "not much complex") project? ;-) Best regards, -- (o< | Yves Bailly : http://kafka-fr.net | -o) //\ | Linux Dijon : http://www.coagul.org | //\ \_/ | | \_/` ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Poll: Qt4Ada as alternative to GtkAda 2006-07-27 23:08 Poll: Qt4Ada as alternative to GtkAda Yves Bailly @ 2006-07-28 7:02 ` vgodunko 2006-07-28 7:36 ` Alex R. Mosteo ` (2 subsequent siblings) 3 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: vgodunko @ 2006-07-28 7:02 UTC (permalink / raw) > > So here's the poll: who would be interested in such a binding, who would > be interested in being able to write GUI code using a Qt-like API? > > Corollary: who would be ready to help in such a huge (but "not much > complex") project? ;-) > We are have intrest in such bindings and planning try to do this. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Poll: Qt4Ada as alternative to GtkAda 2006-07-27 23:08 Poll: Qt4Ada as alternative to GtkAda Yves Bailly 2006-07-28 7:02 ` vgodunko @ 2006-07-28 7:36 ` Alex R. Mosteo 2006-07-28 10:09 ` Preben Randhol 2006-07-28 16:45 ` Martin Krischik 3 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: Alex R. Mosteo @ 2006-07-28 7:36 UTC (permalink / raw) Yves Bailly wrote: > So here's the poll: who would be interested in such a binding, who would > be interested in being able to write GUI code using a Qt-like API? One here. > Corollary: who would be ready to help in such a huge (but "not much > complex") project? ;-) Alas, I can't volunteer right now :) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Poll: Qt4Ada as alternative to GtkAda 2006-07-27 23:08 Poll: Qt4Ada as alternative to GtkAda Yves Bailly 2006-07-28 7:02 ` vgodunko 2006-07-28 7:36 ` Alex R. Mosteo @ 2006-07-28 10:09 ` Preben Randhol 2006-07-28 10:24 ` michael bode 2006-07-28 16:45 ` Martin Krischik 3 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread From: Preben Randhol @ 2006-07-28 10:09 UTC (permalink / raw) To: comp.lang.ada Yves Bailly <kafka.fr@laposte.net> wrote on 28/07/2006 (01:15) : > Hello all, > > I just read the thread "Answer of Request to AdaCore on licensing Status > of GtkAda 2.4.0", in which a statement from Dmitry A. Kazakov kept > my attention, quoting: > "GtkAda could be reworked from scratch. It must be boring and a lot of > work, but not much complex." QT is GPL unless you buy a license. > So here's the poll: who would be interested in such a binding, who would > be interested in being able to write GUI code using a Qt-like API? Binding are generally good. If it is to redo GtkAda as OpenGtkAda or FreeGtkAda I would like to see something higher level than GtkAda. I mean something that integrates much tighter with Ada where one can use Ada2005 container directly and not have to use glibc and duplicate your data to show them. > Corollary: who would be ready to help in such a huge (but "not much > complex") project? ;-) Sorry, I've start using Python (at work and home) so I don't have time. I have already contributed to the GtkAda which now is GPL. Python and Ada are languages at opposing ends (dynamic vs static) so a lot is different, but that Ada lacks that Python has is batteries. I mean lots and lots of libraries to get things done. When Ada goes GPL only it make only a new hole in a sinking ship. But the real issue isn't if the GtkAda is GPL or not as long as the GNAT compiler only can be used to make GPL code then it really doesn't matter what license your library has. Preben ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Poll: Qt4Ada as alternative to GtkAda 2006-07-28 10:09 ` Preben Randhol @ 2006-07-28 10:24 ` michael bode 2006-07-28 10:34 ` Preben Randhol 0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread From: michael bode @ 2006-07-28 10:24 UTC (permalink / raw) Preben Randhol <randhol+cla2@pvv.org> writes: > But the real issue isn't if the GtkAda is GPL or not as long as the GNAT > compiler only can be used to make GPL code then it really doesn't matter > what license your library has. But I think this is quite clear: gnat from FSF still has the linking exception. GCC-GNAT 4.1 is available for some Linux distributions (MacOS X?) and I think MinGW gnat 3.4.5 is available for Windows. So the problem are some libraries the most important beeing some decent multiplatform GUI lib. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Poll: Qt4Ada as alternative to GtkAda 2006-07-28 10:24 ` michael bode @ 2006-07-28 10:34 ` Preben Randhol 2006-07-28 13:17 ` Simon Clubley 0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread From: Preben Randhol @ 2006-07-28 10:34 UTC (permalink / raw) To: comp.lang.ada michael bode <michael.bode@laserline.de> wrote on 28/07/2006 (12:30) : > But I think this is quite clear: gnat from FSF still has the linking > exception. GCC-GNAT 4.1 is available for some Linux distributions > (MacOS X?) and I think MinGW gnat 3.4.5 is available for Windows. So it means that what ACT contributes to FSF (gcc) is GMGPL, while what they package themselves is GPL? I'm really getting confused about the license mess now... What is the license in Debian for gnat-4.1 ? Preben ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Poll: Qt4Ada as alternative to GtkAda 2006-07-28 10:34 ` Preben Randhol @ 2006-07-28 13:17 ` Simon Clubley 2006-07-28 14:08 ` Jeffrey Creem 0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread From: Simon Clubley @ 2006-07-28 13:17 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <mailman.8.1154082903.32700.comp.lang.ada@ada-france.org>, Preben Randhol <randhol+cla2@pvv.org> writes: > michael bode <michael.bode@laserline.de> wrote on 28/07/2006 (12:30) : >> But I think this is quite clear: gnat from FSF still has the linking >> exception. GCC-GNAT 4.1 is available for some Linux distributions >> (MacOS X?) and I think MinGW gnat 3.4.5 is available for Windows. > > So it means that what ACT contributes to FSF (gcc) is GMGPL, while what > they package themselves is GPL? > Yes, that's right. If you pull a FSF GCC distribution, with a FSF version number, from a FSF server, it's my understanding that the Ada RTL component is licensed under the GMGPL. A theoretical concern that I had a few weeks ago was could ACT, at a later date, move the GNAT.* packages in the FSF distribution to been GPL only on the basis that they were not part of the Ada 95 standard, and hence, like GtkAda, ACT was free to do with them whatever they wanted to do ? Simon. -- Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP If Google's motto is "don't be evil", then how did we get Google Groups 2 ? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Poll: Qt4Ada as alternative to GtkAda 2006-07-28 13:17 ` Simon Clubley @ 2006-07-28 14:08 ` Jeffrey Creem 2006-07-28 15:56 ` Samuel Tardieu 2006-07-28 17:47 ` Georg Bauhaus 0 siblings, 2 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: Jeffrey Creem @ 2006-07-28 14:08 UTC (permalink / raw) Simon Clubley wrote: > In article <mailman.8.1154082903.32700.comp.lang.ada@ada-france.org>, Preben Randhol <randhol+cla2@pvv.org> writes: > >>michael bode <michael.bode@laserline.de> wrote on 28/07/2006 (12:30) : >> >>>But I think this is quite clear: gnat from FSF still has the linking >>>exception. GCC-GNAT 4.1 is available for some Linux distributions >>>(MacOS X?) and I think MinGW gnat 3.4.5 is available for Windows. >> >>So it means that what ACT contributes to FSF (gcc) is GMGPL, while what >>they package themselves is GPL? >> > > > Yes, that's right. If you pull a FSF GCC distribution, with a FSF version > number, from a FSF server, it's my understanding that the Ada RTL component > is licensed under the GMGPL. > > A theoretical concern that I had a few weeks ago was could ACT, at a later > date, move the GNAT.* packages in the FSF distribution to been GPL only on > the basis that they were not part of the Ada 95 standard, and hence, like > GtkAda, ACT was free to do with them whatever they wanted to do ? > > Simon. > I would expect some discussion on the GCC group before such a move happens. For items in the actual FSF GCC tree, ACT has to assign copyright to the FSF. So, while they are always free to stop contributing, I don't think AdaCore by themselves can change the license terms on items pulled from the FSF tree. Of course, the FSF could make a change like that. While AdaCore's actions are (hopefully) driven by profit motives, FSF's motives are simply trying to ensure an end state where software is "Free" (in a GPL sense). So they could certainly change future releases to pure GPL for their own reasons (and of course a proprietary vendor could change future license terms to require something unacceptable in future versions too). At least with open source and either very shallow pockets (lawsuit proof) or fairly deep pockets (laywer up), one could branch from the last set of acceptable license terms... In any case, on the original point of this thread, it is hard to understand why we would abandon GtkAda for Qt4Ada when Qt itself is GPL without exception on some platforms. http://www.trolltech.com/developer/downloads/qt/windows So, how would the community be any better off? Yes you can buy a commercial license for it.. But of course you can by GtkAda from AdaCore too. Now, having an alternate or additional QUI library support is not a bad thing (perhaps it is even a good thing) but I don't think QT really solves the license problems that most people are worrying about. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Poll: Qt4Ada as alternative to GtkAda 2006-07-28 14:08 ` Jeffrey Creem @ 2006-07-28 15:56 ` Samuel Tardieu 2006-07-28 17:47 ` Georg Bauhaus 1 sibling, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: Samuel Tardieu @ 2006-07-28 15:56 UTC (permalink / raw) >>>>> "Jeffrey" == Jeffrey Creem <jeff@thecreems.com> writes: Jeffrey> Of course, the FSF could make a change like that. While Jeffrey> AdaCore's actions are (hopefully) driven by profit motives, Jeffrey> FSF's motives are simply trying to ensure an end state where Jeffrey> software is "Free" (in a GPL sense). So they could certainly Jeffrey> change future releases to pure GPL for their own reasons Exactly. But I would not understand if they did that for the GNAT library and not for the C++ STL. Why restrict the use of the GNU Ada compiler when the use of the GNU C++ compiler isn't? Sam -- Samuel Tardieu -- sam@rfc1149.net -- http://www.rfc1149.net/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Poll: Qt4Ada as alternative to GtkAda 2006-07-28 14:08 ` Jeffrey Creem 2006-07-28 15:56 ` Samuel Tardieu @ 2006-07-28 17:47 ` Georg Bauhaus 2006-07-29 19:10 ` Jeffrey Creem 1 sibling, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread From: Georg Bauhaus @ 2006-07-28 17:47 UTC (permalink / raw) On Fri, 2006-07-28 at 10:08 -0400, Jeffrey Creem wrote: > I don't think QT really > solves the license problems that most people are worrying about. QT might solve a few pricing problems though, if there are any, as perhaps Trolltech doesn't sell to Boeing-budget organizations only. Also, a new binding to a portable GUI library is an opportunity to provide one that can be used with any Ada compiler, like CLAW for Windows, and like the Ada standard libraries. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Poll: Qt4Ada as alternative to GtkAda 2006-07-28 17:47 ` Georg Bauhaus @ 2006-07-29 19:10 ` Jeffrey Creem 2006-07-30 14:53 ` Georg Bauhaus 0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread From: Jeffrey Creem @ 2006-07-29 19:10 UTC (permalink / raw) Georg Bauhaus wrote: > On Fri, 2006-07-28 at 10:08 -0400, Jeffrey Creem wrote: > > >> I don't think QT really >>solves the license problems that most people are worrying about. > > > QT might solve a few pricing problems though, if there are any, > as perhaps Trolltech doesn't sell to Boeing-budget organizations > only. > Doesn't look like it really solves the problem all that much. If you want one platform (e.g. just linux or Just windows) it costs $3300 per developer for Qt. ($6600 per developer if you want to target three platforms). This is probably more expensive for a 5 seat than GtkAda (I don't have any quotes for GtkAda so who knows...Also it may be that you can't get GtkAda from AdaCore without also getting GNAT first). Still, this is not the $90 tool that everyone seems to think that everyone else is using. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Poll: Qt4Ada as alternative to GtkAda 2006-07-29 19:10 ` Jeffrey Creem @ 2006-07-30 14:53 ` Georg Bauhaus 0 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: Georg Bauhaus @ 2006-07-30 14:53 UTC (permalink / raw) On Sat, 2006-07-29 at 15:10 -0400, Jeffrey Creem wrote: > Georg Bauhaus wrote: > > QT might solve a few pricing problems though, if there are any, > > as perhaps Trolltech doesn't sell to Boeing-budget organizations > > only. > > Considering that most request for a GMGPL GUI solution came from small businesses, then by http://www.trolltech.com/products/qt/licenses/pricing/licensing/smallbusiness > If you > want one platform (e.g. just linux or Just windows) it costs $3300 per > developer for Qt. (1 - 0.65) * €2630 ~> $1170 (if "at a 65% discount" means that) That's initial discount, though. > Still, this is not the $90 tool that everyone seems to think that > everyone else is using. Yes, still a fair bit of money for a self-employed programmer, for example. Seems like a good starting point for a community solution (or for selling free software). ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Poll: Qt4Ada as alternative to GtkAda 2006-07-27 23:08 Poll: Qt4Ada as alternative to GtkAda Yves Bailly ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 2006-07-28 10:09 ` Preben Randhol @ 2006-07-28 16:45 ` Martin Krischik 3 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: Martin Krischik @ 2006-07-28 16:45 UTC (permalink / raw) Yves Bailly wrote: > Well, what about a binding to the Qt C++ library? Something more "subtle" > than the one currently available at > http://freehost07.websamba.com/guibuilder/ > ...in which the type hierarchy doesn't exactly matches the one from the > library. It would also make use of Ada2005 new features. > > So here's the poll: who would be interested in such a binding, who would > be interested in being able to write GUI code using a Qt-like API? Here I prefer Qt over Gtk anyway. By far more stable (putting on my flame proof suit). > Corollary: who would be ready to help in such a huge (but "not much > complex") project? ;-) I package it when it is ready. Martin -- mailto://krischik@users.sourceforge.net Ada programming at: http://ada.krischik.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2006-07-30 14:53 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 13+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2006-07-27 23:08 Poll: Qt4Ada as alternative to GtkAda Yves Bailly 2006-07-28 7:02 ` vgodunko 2006-07-28 7:36 ` Alex R. Mosteo 2006-07-28 10:09 ` Preben Randhol 2006-07-28 10:24 ` michael bode 2006-07-28 10:34 ` Preben Randhol 2006-07-28 13:17 ` Simon Clubley 2006-07-28 14:08 ` Jeffrey Creem 2006-07-28 15:56 ` Samuel Tardieu 2006-07-28 17:47 ` Georg Bauhaus 2006-07-29 19:10 ` Jeffrey Creem 2006-07-30 14:53 ` Georg Bauhaus 2006-07-28 16:45 ` Martin Krischik
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