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From: Brian May <bam@snoopy.apana.org.au>
Subject: Re: What is wrong with Ada?
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 11:33:18 +1000
Date: 2007-04-23T11:33:18+10:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <sa4ps5vub6p.fsf@margay.local> (raw)
In-Reply-To: FpDWh.631$Ea5.257@newssvr19.news.prodigy.net

>>>>> "adaworks" == adaworks  <adaworks@sbcglobal.net> writes:

    >> That will give them a really strong incentive to camouflage
    >> what really happens and make mistakes look like other peoples
    >> mistake or argue that they are other peoples mistakes. The
    >> organisation will get bogged down in a lot of "ass covering"
    >> and infighting.
    >> 
    adaworks> Any programmer who resorts to this kind of deception
    adaworks> needs to be fired, and quickly.  We all make mistakes.
    adaworks> We need to own up to those mistakes.  I am more inclined
    adaworks> to fire a programmer who tries to blame others than one
    adaworks> who acknowledges a mistake and works on correcting it.

This only works if management understands the problem. If your
relationship with management is strained, pointing out problems with
other programmers (whether deliberate or accidental issues that
regularly occur) can make you look like the bad programmer who is
blaming others. In this case in might be best just to leave the job.

In previous job I frequently had my commits reverted. One such
occasion, I asked the offender who initially argued he hadn't reverted
anything. I suggested "maybe you did an update with the file still
loaded in the editor". "No I didn't! Besides Subversion would take
care of that!". I reverted the previous revert after extracting the
changes that had been reverted from other changes that were also
committed in the same revision.

This was eventually followed by "your change broke my code so I
reverted it again". Finally! We come to the real reason. Another piece
of code was using the a function in a way that I never intended, so my
change broke it.

Whether these issues are minor issues or major show stoppers depends
on the culture of the company. Unfortunately, in this case, management
didn't care for quality code, they just wanted results. Documenting
code was seen as wasting time. Management was of the view that bugs
where going to occur anyway, and there was no point trying to do
anything about it.

As a result other programmers started adding code to my well defined
functions and classes to handle cases that these functions and classes
were never intended to handle. Eventually even I gradually forgot what
my original intentions were, so started doing the same thing myself. I
couldn't just look at my code to find out either as I wasn't sure
which parts of the code I originally wrote and which parts where
hacked in latter (and exploring subversion would have taken too long).

Not that my original design for these functions and classes were that
good anyway, they were based on existing concepts at the time which
had accumulated over the years.

It was pointless trying to argue that the code would be a lot cleaner
and more maintainable if we did a complete redesign followed by a
complete rewrite - we were too busy adding more features - so I left.
-- 
Brian May <bam@snoopy.apana.org.au>



  reply	other threads:[~2007-04-23  1:33 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 147+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2007-04-09 20:31 What is wrong with Ada? martinbishop
2007-04-10  1:14 ` Chip and Allie Orange
2007-04-10  8:32   ` gautier_niouzes
2007-04-10 18:21     ` Chip Orange
2007-04-10  1:15 ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-04-10  9:02   ` Pascal Obry
2007-04-10 14:32     ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-10 15:09       ` Pascal Obry
2007-04-10 15:39         ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-10 16:12           ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2007-04-10 17:31             ` Chad  R. Meiners
2007-04-10 18:24               ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-10 18:28                 ` Ludovic Brenta
2007-04-10 20:22                   ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-11  9:40               ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2007-04-11 11:20                 ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-04-11 23:45                 ` Brian May
2007-04-12  7:40                   ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2007-04-12 16:44                   ` kevin  cline
2007-04-12 17:32                     ` Pascal Obry
2007-04-12 16:46                   ` kevin  cline
2007-04-12 17:35                     ` Pascal Obry
2007-04-21  2:13                       ` adaworks
2007-04-21  9:49                         ` Simon Wright
2007-04-21 14:15                           ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-22  7:38                             ` adaworks
2007-04-23  1:33                               ` Brian May [this message]
2007-04-21 18:33                           ` adaworks
2007-04-12 18:11                     ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-16 14:25                       ` Bob Spooner
2007-04-16 14:50                         ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-17  9:17                           ` Pascal Obry
2007-04-17 10:04                             ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-04-17 15:02                             ` Ed Falis
2007-04-17 15:48                               ` Pascal Obry
2007-04-17 20:53                                 ` Ludovic Brenta
2007-04-18  0:21                                 ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-04-18  8:16                                   ` Ludovic Brenta
2007-04-21  2:18                               ` adaworks
2007-04-12 18:47                   ` Robert A Duff
2007-04-12 19:39                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-04-12 19:54                       ` Peter C. Chapin
2007-04-12 20:41                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-04-14 19:56                         ` Chad  R. Meiners
2007-04-13  0:16                       ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-14  7:01                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-04-14 10:48                           ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-15 13:41                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-04-15 16:01                               ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-15 17:51                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-04-15 21:41                                   ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-15 22:00                                   ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-16  8:26                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-04-16  9:04                                       ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-17  7:58                                         ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-04-17  9:27                                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-04-17 10:46                                             ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-17 10:48                                             ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-15 23:06                                   ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-22 21:50                                   ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-23 19:26                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-04-23 20:39                                       ` Ray Blaak
2007-04-24  8:39                                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-04-24 16:43                                           ` Ray Blaak
2007-04-23 22:02                                       ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-14 22:49                         ` Robert A Duff
2007-04-14 23:39                           ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-23 21:16                         ` Larry Kilgallen
2007-04-23 21:21                           ` Ray Blaak
2007-04-23 22:15                             ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-12 21:18                     ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-04-13  7:39                       ` Stuart
2007-04-13  9:05                         ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-04-13  0:10                     ` Brian May
2007-04-13  8:55                     ` Harald Korneliussen
2007-04-14 22:47                       ` Robert A Duff
2007-04-14 19:50                     ` Chad  R. Meiners
2007-04-14 22:52                       ` Robert A Duff
2007-04-14 19:28                 ` Chad  R. Meiners
2007-04-16  8:50                   ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2007-04-16  9:18                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-04-16  9:56                     ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-16 16:45                     ` Robert A Duff
2007-04-17  9:05                       ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2007-04-17 14:51                         ` Robert A Duff
2007-04-22  7:42                           ` adaworks
2007-04-10 18:15             ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-20 16:34             ` adaworks
2007-04-10 19:44       ` Simon Wright
2007-04-10 20:43         ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-10 22:02       ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-04-10 22:15         ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-11  8:59           ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-04-20 16:25       ` adaworks
2007-04-20 20:35         ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-21  5:51           ` adaworks
2007-04-25  0:10         ` Chad  R. Meiners
2007-04-10 15:59     ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-04-10 16:31       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-04-10 18:08         ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-11 23:05         ` kevin  cline
2007-04-12  7:55           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-04-12 10:43           ` Peter C. Chapin
2007-04-12 13:04             ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-13 10:46               ` Harald Korneliussen
2007-04-13 16:25                 ` Adam Beneschan
2007-04-14 23:41                 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-22  7:54           ` adaworks
2007-04-21 18:50         ` adaworks
2007-04-21 19:53           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
     [not found]             ` <H5EWh.6302$H_5.612@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net>
2007-04-22  9:33               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-04-10 23:43     ` Brian May
2007-04-12 14:25       ` Bob Spooner
2007-04-13  0:22         ` Brian May
2007-04-23  2:25     ` Justin Gombos
2007-05-16  1:29     ` Adrian Hoe
2007-04-10  1:25 ` Brian May
2007-04-10  1:48   ` martinbishop
2007-04-10  8:33     ` gautier_niouzes
2007-04-10 14:58     ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-10 19:05       ` Randy Brukardt
2007-04-10 20:27         ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-12  1:18           ` Randy Brukardt
2007-04-12 13:02             ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-12  8:47           ` Ada vendor FAQ (was: What is wrong with Ada?) Ludovic Brenta
2007-04-11 15:21 ` What is wrong with Ada? Jason King
2007-04-11 17:53   ` tmoran
2007-04-12 18:55   ` Alexander E. Kopilovich
2007-04-13  2:59     ` Jason King
2007-04-13  9:03       ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-04-14 15:28         ` Jason King
2007-04-16 16:48           ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-04-21 12:56 ` AJAskey
2007-04-21 13:50   ` jimmaureenrogers
2007-04-21 14:46     ` AJAskey
2007-04-21 15:43       ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-23  1:37         ` Brian May
2007-04-21 15:48       ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-21 21:42       ` jimmaureenrogers
     [not found]         ` <vzwWh.2452$Ut6.1591@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
2007-04-22  0:53           ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-25  0:20     ` Chad  R. Meiners
2007-04-25  9:57       ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-25 11:19         ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-04-25 11:54           ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-25 13:24             ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-04-25 13:41             ` adaworks
2007-04-26  3:24       ` jimmaureenrogers
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