Re: Manifesto against Vector

[chris <spamoff.danx@ntlworld.com>]

Alexander E. Kopilovich wrote:
> 
> I think (and in fact I'm pretty sure) that this apparently tiny decision
> will either produce very unpleasant results for the whole AI-302 Container
> library (for example, by provoking competing mutations) or even negatively
> (although perhaps not heavily) influence attitude to Ada in general.
> (It is a well-known way to political defeat - trying to appease your opponents
> at the "little" expense of your supporters).

This is one reason why I'm perfectly happy to program in a community 
effort in OCaml, Erlang, Oz, C++, C, C# and Java (and maybe even 
Haskell) but not in an Ada effort now...


While not armageddon loop

New_Thread;

Put_Message ("We need +=, -=, cos it's more efficient.");
Put_Reply ("No, it's evil. c++ has it.  don't concede to c(++)");
Put_Reply ("Not necessarily. <good argument...>");

New_Thread;

Put_Message ("It's a vector");
Put_Reply ("No, it's an unbounded array.  Vectors are spawn of real 
world languages like c++");

New_Thread;

Put_Message ("We needed containers for Ada.  We chose the 'Charles 
proposal' as base since it's mature, as well as ideas from some other 
libraries");
Put_Reply ("Noooooooo!  Charles is the spawn of STL... i.e. C++!")

New_Thread;

Put_Message ("Ada is perfectly suited to real world applications as a 
language, but there are not a lot of libraries typical of desktop 
development for it.  That limits it's popularity");

Put_Reply ("Yes we want to make ada more popular, but for right now we 
can program jumbo jets!  That's good enough for me.");
Put_Reply ("I develop processor specific programs for webservers, that 
just need recompilation.  Just need to setup compilation environment, 
port libs x, y and z, compile and go!  Easy as Servlets.  Honest.");
Put_Reply ("Real world productivity is enhanced by the language.  Sure 
you need libraries, but the 2 fold increase in code productivity 
outweighs the 7 fold increase in development time caused by the lack of 
libraries!  Oh and 1 = 0 as shown here ...");
Put_Reply ("Let's Fork Thread");

Put_Message ("Ada is best language ever.  Why don't people use it more?");
Put_Reply ("Arianne 5");
Put_Reply ("- But Arianne 5 was the result of a management failure.");
Put_Reply ("-- Mud sticks.");
Put_Reply ("--- How can we wash it off?");
Put_Reply ("---- Wait until loop begins again");

Put_Reply ("Migration Costs");
...
Put_Reply ("----- How can we wash it off?");
Put_Reply ("------ Wait until loop begins again");

end loop;

New_Thread;

Put_Message ("The world is ending because it wasn't written in Ada!");
...
Put_Reply ("--- How can we wash it off?");
Put_Reply ("---- Wait until loop begins again");


Most niche language communities are similar, but the Ada one is not 
motivated or big enough in general to do anything without it falling 
apart without some serious dedication.  The other communities just get 
on with it, and go places!


> So the problem seems to be a temptation to make a concession to C++ and Java
> communities (as well as to their managers) in rather unfounded hope that this
> can somehow decrease alienation.

It is designed based on the STL, no?  In any event, this sounds like a 
load of hot air to me.  Why don't people stop focusing efforts on the 
littlest of the little details and deal with the real issues?  That's 
what the ARG are doing, and people like David Botton, Mr Heaney and 
others do.  The people who make the most noise, just make noise (the 
same noise at that) and put others off.