RE: Newbie: Best Ada Compiler for MS Windows ?

RE: Newbie: Best Ada Compiler for MS Windows ?

[Beard, Frank [Contractor]]

Larry's right, this is fairly stiff requirment for a free tool, especially
since none of Micro$oft's development tools are free.

The closest thing to Delphi on Windows, that I know of, is Aonix ObjectAda.
They have a free version, but it has imposed limits.  The full up tool comes
in about four different bundles.  The Professional runs about $500, but you
can get yhe basic IDE/GUI Builder for less than half if I remember
correctly.

Since Delphi is probably the premier GUI RAD development tool fot Windows,
you'll be a little disappointed with the Aonix tool.  Nothing else quite
compares to Delphi for GUI development.  But, you can get the job done with
Aonix, just will a little more work.

On our project, we use Delphi for the GUI interface and Ada for the real
work underneath.  We do use the Aonix GUI tool for writing utilities for
working with the Ada code.  It works pretty well.

Frank

-----Original Message-----
From: D De Villiers
To: comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org
Sent: 4/4/02 7:10 AM
Subject: Newbie: Best Ada Compiler for MS Windows ?

Hello!

I'm a Ada newbie ! :)

What's the best FREE Ada compiler avialable for MS Windows ? It must
have a
powerful IDE (with code insight, RAD dev. etc), detail on-line
help/documentation, samples etc.

I will use Ada mostly as a hobby and for writting Win32 console
application... As I already use Delphi for professional work.

--

Lennie De Villiers

PL/I for Palm Project:
http://www.crosswinds.net/~lennie2000/comp/PLI_Palm/
e (Exclamation) Programming Language:
http://www.crosswinds.net/~lennie2000/comp/e_lang/
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-- Romove ~ and 9s from email adress to reply --


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Re: Newbie: Best Ada Compiler for MS Windows ?

[Phillip Kin]

"Beard, Frank [Contractor]" <beardf@spawar.navy.mil> wrote:
 
>Since Delphi is probably the premier GUI RAD development tool fot Windows,
>you'll be a little disappointed with the Aonix tool.  Nothing else quite
>compares to Delphi for GUI development.  

Delphi is just one of many tools available for mainstream languages.
There are many other excellent tools out there that Ada will never
have. 

Still, another option is to use VB or Delphi for the GUI and use Ada
for the inards.

I am doing this for a Japanese program I am writing.
Only, I'll be using Delphi + Ocaml.


---------------------------------------------------

cetero censeo carthaginem esse delendam
(I am of the opinion that Carthage must be destroyed)
Cato

Re: Newbie: Best Ada Compiler for MS Windows ?

[D De Villiers]

Phillip Kin,

> I am doing this for a Japanese program I am writing.
> Only, I'll be using Delphi + Ocaml.

Wow! :) Delphi + Ocaml ! How ? Why ? Just for interest sake ! :)

--

Lennie De Villiers

PL/I for Palm Project: http://www.crosswinds.net/~lennie2000/comp/PLI_Palm/
e (Exclamation) Programming Language:
http://www.crosswinds.net/~lennie2000/comp/e_lang/
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tv+ b++ G++ h--
!r !y+
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
-- Romove ~ and 9s from email adress to reply --

Re: Newbie: Best Ada Compiler for MS Windows ?

[Gautier Write-only-address]

sk:

>Ok, I think I understand now. T. Moran was stating that the
>non-"free" compiler provided trace-back within the standard
>
>"ada.exceptions.exception_information(...)"
>
>Whereas gnat requires the use of "extra" traceback packages
>and extra code to access the equivalent information ?

At least with GNAT you have

a) the line and file name of code and exception with "-g"
b) same info, plus a trace-back with addresses for "-g -bargs -E"
c) same as b), but a symbolic trace-back with the extra code.

The other compilers I know provide c) without any option or extra
code.

T. Moran, do you need a "ada.exceptions.except..." to obtain
c) on your compiler ?

________________________________________________________
Gautier  --  http://www.mysunrise.ch/users/gdm/gsoft.htm

NB: For a direct answer, address on the Web site!


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Re: Newbie: Best Ada Compiler for MS Windows ?

[tmoran]

> T. Moran, do you need a "ada.exceptions.except..." to obtain
> c) on your compiler ?
  If there's no handler for the exception I get c) automatically.
Like using your wrapper code.
  Just guessing, perhaps it's a question of intro date of the compiler.
The one I learned with was early, and probably their first Ada compiler
for most of its users.  So making easy debugging the default was
desirable.  Gnat, I suspect, is sold mostly to experienced Ada users, so
its defaults are different.  That is unfortunate for the newbie, however.

Re: Newbie: Best Ada Compiler for MS Windows ?

[sk]

Hi,

 
"Gautier Write-only-address" <gautier_niouzes@hotmail.com>
>PS:
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------
>--  File:            TB_Wrap.ads

Ok, I think I understand now. T. Moran was stating that the
non-"free" compiler provided trace-back within the standard

"ada.exceptions.exception_information(...)" 

Whereas gnat requires the use of "extra" traceback packages 
and extra code to access the equivalent information ?

-----------------------------------------------------------
PS. For your example to show useful information, I had to
add a link option of  -g

"gnatmake -g gnat_ex -bargs -E -largs -g"

-- 
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-------------------------------------
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Re: Newbie: Best Ada Compiler for MS Windows ?

[Gautier Write-only-address]

>As to the impression made on the average newbie, we apparently differ.

You are not alone - it's surprising since all components
now are in GNAT, except the last inch towards the newbie.
Below a solution allowing not to include GNAT-specific
things in the source: a wrapper. Should be done by the
binder...
____________________________________________________________
Gautier  --  http://www.mysunrise.ch/users/gdm/index.htm#Ada

NB: For a direct answer, address on the Web site!

PS:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--  File:            TB_Wrap.ads
--  Description:     Trace-back wrapper for GNAT 3.13p+ (spec.)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

generic

  with procedure My_main_procedure;

procedure TB_Wrap;
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--  File:            TB_Wrap.adb
--  Description:     Trace-back wrapper for GNAT 3.13p+ (body)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

with GNAT.Traceback.Symbolic, Ada.Exceptions, Ada.Text_IO;
use Ada.Exceptions, Ada.Text_IO;

procedure TB_Wrap is
  --  pragma Compiler_options("-g");
  --  pragma Binder_options("-E");
begin
  My_main_procedure;
exception
  when E: others =>
    New_Line;
    Put_Line("--------------------[ Unhandled exception 
]-----------------");
    Put_Line(" > Name of exception . . . . .: " &
             Ada.Exceptions.Exception_Name(E) );
    Put_Line(" > Message for exception . . .: " &
             Ada.Exceptions.Exception_Message(E) );
    Put_Line(" > Trace-back of call stack: " );
    Put_Line( GNAT.Traceback.Symbolic.Symbolic_Traceback(E) );
end TB_Wrap;
with Test_Exc, TB_Wrap;
procedure GNAT_Ex is new TB_Wrap( Test_Exc);
procedure Test_Exc is

  procedure A is
  begin
    raise constraint_error;
  end;

begin
  A;
end;


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Newbie: Best Ada Compiler for MS Windows ?

[D De Villiers]

Hello!

I'm a Ada newbie ! :)

What's the best FREE Ada compiler avialable for MS Windows ? It must have a
powerful IDE (with code insight, RAD dev. etc), detail on-line
help/documentation, samples etc.

I will use Ada mostly as a hobby and for writting Win32 console
application... As I already use Delphi for professional work.

--

Lennie De Villiers

PL/I for Palm Project: http://www.crosswinds.net/~lennie2000/comp/PLI_Palm/
e (Exclamation) Programming Language:
http://www.crosswinds.net/~lennie2000/comp/e_lang/
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
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  www.geekcode.com
GB/CS/CC/IT/M d++ s:,s---:--- a-- C+++ P+ L+++ W++ N+++ K--- w++ PS t+ 5++
tv+ b++ G++ h--
!r !y+
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-- Romove ~ and 9s from email adress to reply --

Re: Newbie: Best Ada Compiler for MS Windows ?

[Larry Kilgallen]

In article <a8i1ea$bfj$3@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>, "D De Villiers" <ddevilliers@lando.co.za> writes:

> I'm a Ada newbie ! :)
> 
> What's the best FREE Ada compiler avialable for MS Windows ? It must have a
> powerful IDE (with code insight, RAD dev. etc), detail on-line
> help/documentation, samples etc.

Those are pretty strong requirements for something that is free.

> I will use Ada mostly as a hobby and for writting Win32 console
> application... As I already use Delphi for professional work.

I hear Delphi is pretty good.  Is it free ?

> PL/I for Palm Project: http://www.crosswinds.net/~lennie2000/comp/PLI_Palm/
> e (Exclamation) Programming Language:
> http://www.crosswinds.net/~lennie2000/comp/e_lang/

How many of the PL/I compilers for MS Windows are also free ?

Re: Newbie: Best Ada Compiler for MS Windows ?

[Tarjei T. Jensen]

Larry Kilgallen wrote
> I hear Delphi is pretty good.  Is it free ?

Sort of. Old versions are often available on magazine cover CDs. At least on
Personal Computerworld and other UK magazines. There are restrictions on how
you can use theese (e.g. no commercial stuff).


greetigns,

Re: Newbie: Best Ada Compiler for MS Windows ?

[Adam Tissa]

Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote:

>In article <a8i1ea$bfj$3@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>, "D De Villiers" <ddevilliers@lando.co.za> writes:
>
>> I'm a Ada newbie ! :)
>> 
>> What's the best FREE Ada compiler avialable for MS Windows ? It must have a
>> powerful IDE (with code insight, RAD dev. etc), detail on-line
>> help/documentation, samples etc.
>
>Those are pretty strong requirements for something that is free.
>
>> I will use Ada mostly as a hobby and for writting Win32 console
>> application... As I already use Delphi for professional work.
>
>I hear Delphi is pretty good.  Is it free ?

There is a free Personal Verision that comes with all the goodies (
RAD & GUI tools , graphical debugger, etc )

Re: Newbie: Best Ada Compiler for MS Windows ?

[Adam Tissa]

Adam Tissa <verb_precedes_adjective@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote:
>
>>In article <a8i1ea$bfj$3@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>, "D De Villiers" <ddevilliers@lando.co.za> writes:
>>
>>> I'm a Ada newbie ! :)
>>> 
>>> What's the best FREE Ada compiler avialable for MS Windows ? It must have a
>>> powerful IDE (with code insight, RAD dev. etc), detail on-line
>>> help/documentation, samples etc.

There isnt any.

Re: Newbie: Best Ada Compiler for MS Windows ?

[D De Villiers]

Larry Kilgallen,

> Those are pretty strong requirements for something that is free.

Well ! It should have good documentation etc. ! ;)

> I hear Delphi is pretty good.  Is it free ?

No! Only the Personal Edition is free - Visit www.borland.com/delphi for
more information.

> How many of the PL/I compilers for MS Windows are also free ?

None. I'm using the free Digital Research compiler
(http://home.nycap.rr.com/pflass/candt.htm) PL/I is just a hobby language
for me.

--

Lennie De Villiers

PL/I for Palm Project: http://www.crosswinds.net/~lennie2000/comp/PLI_Palm/
e (Exclamation) Programming Language:
http://www.crosswinds.net/~lennie2000/comp/e_lang/
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  www.geekcode.com
GB/CS/CC/IT/M d++ s:,s---:--- a-- C+++ P+ L+++ W++ N+++ K--- w++ PS t+ 5++
tv+ b++ G++ h--
!r !y+
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
-- Romove ~ and 9s from email adress to reply --

Re: Newbie: Best Ada Compiler for MS Windows ?

[John McCabe]

On Thu, 4 Apr 2002 14:10:41 +0200, "D De Villiers"
<ddevilliers@lando.co.za> wrote:

>I'm a Ada newbie ! :)

Nice :-)

>What's the best FREE Ada compiler avialable for MS Windows ? It must have a
>powerful IDE (with code insight, RAD dev. etc), detail on-line
>help/documentation, samples etc.

You're unlikely to get all of that with a *free* Ada compiler.
GNAT/AdaGIDE is all 'free' and AdaGIDE isn't a bad IDE, not quite in
the same leagues as ObjectAda's though. ObjectAda *was* available in a
free version but had significant restrictions. Perhaps someone could
update you on whether that version is still available.

>I will use Ada mostly as a hobby and for writting Win32 console
>application... As I already use Delphi for professional work.

As a matter of interest - given your requirement for 'free' software,
what other 'free' software do you use that has the facilities you
mentioned above?

Re: Newbie: Best Ada Compiler for MS Windows ?

[Jerry van Dijk]

john.mccabe@emrad.ns.com (John McCabe) writes:

> >I will use Ada mostly as a hobby and for writting Win32 console
> >application... As I already use Delphi for professional work.
> 
> As a matter of interest - given your requirement for 'free' software,
> what other 'free' software do you use that has the facilities you
> mentioned above?

I think it's fair to note that the standard version of Delphi v6 (for either
Windows or GNU/Linux) is indeed free, if the code you write will be licensed
under the GPL.

Although obviously a marketing device to gain foothold in the Linux world,
it does give GPL developers a very productive environment for producing
GUI based applications for free.

-- 
--  Jerry van Dijk   | email: jvandyk@attglobal.net
--  Leiden, Holland  | web:   users.ncrvnet.nl/gmvdijk

Re: Newbie: Best Ada Compiler for MS Windows ?

[Marin David Condic]

For a zero-cost setup for a Windows/PC environment, GNAT, AdaGIDE, gdb and
GtkAda is a pretty good deal. It won't be as spiffy as some other tools
might be, but it *is* free. (It would be nice to see all these pieces
bundled together in a "starter's kit" - we could point the newbies at it and
say "go".)

MDC
--
Marin David Condic
Senior Software Engineer
Pace Micro Technology Americas    www.pacemicro.com
Enabling the digital revolution
e-Mail:    marin.condic@pacemicro.com


"John McCabe" <john.mccabe@emrad.ns.com> wrote in message
news:3cad5957.611369@news.demon.co.uk...
>
> You're unlikely to get all of that with a *free* Ada compiler.
> GNAT/AdaGIDE is all 'free' and AdaGIDE isn't a bad IDE, not quite in
> the same leagues as ObjectAda's though. ObjectAda *was* available in a
> free version but had significant restrictions. Perhaps someone could
> update you on whether that version is still available.
>

Re: Newbie: Best Ada Compiler for MS Windows ?

[D De Villiers]

John McCabe,

> You're unlikely to get all of that with a *free* Ada compiler.
> GNAT/AdaGIDE is all 'free' and AdaGIDE isn't a bad IDE, not quite in
> the same leagues as ObjectAda's though. ObjectAda *was* available in a
> free version but had significant restrictions. Perhaps someone could
> update you on whether that version is still available.

O'Yes ! I know about ObjectAda (too big for me to download !) Thanks! I'm
now downloading GNAT/AdaGIDE. ObjectAda do have a free Special Edition but
it do have significant restrictions.

> As a matter of interest - given your requirement for 'free' software,
> what other 'free' software do you use that has the facilities you
> mentioned above?

I'm only interested in Ada and other languages (ALGOL, Modula-2, PL/I etc)
as a hobby ! :) I'm using QBASIC and also BCX
(http://www.users.qwest.net/~sdiggins/bcx.htm).

Delphi, Java, Perl and PocketStudio (www.pocket-technologies.com) is the
langauges that I use for professional work ! :)

--

Lennie De Villiers

PL/I for Palm Project: http://www.crosswinds.net/~lennie2000/comp/PLI_Palm/
e (Exclamation) Programming Language:
http://www.crosswinds.net/~lennie2000/comp/e_lang/
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tv+ b++ G++ h--
!r !y+
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
-- Romove ~ and 9s from email adress to reply --

Re: Newbie: Best Ada Compiler for MS Windows ?

[John McCabe]

On Sat, 6 Apr 2002 13:09:52 +0200, "D De Villiers"
<ddevilliers@lando.co.za> wrote:

>John McCabe,
>
>> You're unlikely to get all of that with a *free* Ada compiler.
>> GNAT/AdaGIDE is all 'free' and AdaGIDE isn't a bad IDE, not quite in
>> the same leagues as ObjectAda's though. ObjectAda *was* available in a
>> free version but had significant restrictions. Perhaps someone could
>> update you on whether that version is still available.
>
>O'Yes ! I know about ObjectAda (too big for me to download !) Thanks! I'm
>now downloading GNAT/AdaGIDE. ObjectAda do have a free Special Edition but
>it do have significant restrictions.

I remember seeing a message about a particular version having these
restrictions lifted (well, some of them at least), but I'm not sure
how reliable that information was. May be worth checking the archives.
Also, I think I have a copy of ObjectAda that came with a book. Might
be worth checking Amazon or something to see if this is still the case
(can't remember which book it was though!).

Re: Newbie: Best Ada Compiler for MS Windows ?

[Marin David Condic]

"D De Villiers" <ddevilliers@lando.co.za> wrote in message
news:a8p493$2ef$2@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
>
> I'm only interested in Ada and other languages (ALGOL, Modula-2, PL/I etc)
> as a hobby ! :) I'm using QBASIC and also BCX
> (http://www.users.qwest.net/~sdiggins/bcx.htm).
>
If that's the case then get Gnat, AdaGIDE, gdb and GtkAda and you should be
*more* than satisfied. There may be better development environments
available, but not free of charge. Also, you'd be up against the Law of
Diminishing Returns, IMHO. This setup would get you - oh, say 80%..90% of
what other environments might give you at a pretty steep jump in price & the
only cost to you is the download and hassle of getting it all together &
running for yourself. (Getting other environments to run correctly may in
some cases be even harder - and you paid for the privilege! :-)

MDC
--
Marin David Condic
Senior Software Engineer
Pace Micro Technology Americas    www.pacemicro.com
Enabling the digital revolution
e-Mail:    marin.condic@pacemicro.com

Re: Newbie: Best Ada Compiler for MS Windows ?

[tmoran]

>If that's the case then get Gnat, AdaGIDE, gdb and GtkAda and you should be
>*more* than satisfied. There may be better development environments
  After first meeting Ada, I fell in love when I found that programs
didn't crash - they might print a nice message like "constraint error,
value = 11" at subb line 27 called from suba line 3 called from ..."
It is painfull to realize today's newbies using the "free" compiler won't
have that.

Re: Newbie: Best Ada Compiler for MS Windows ?

[Pascal Obry]

tmoran@acm.org writes:

> >If that's the case then get Gnat, AdaGIDE, gdb and GtkAda and you should be
> >*more* than satisfied. There may be better development environments
>   After first meeting Ada, I fell in love when I found that programs
> didn't crash - they might print a nice message like "constraint error,
> value = 11" at subb line 27 called from suba line 3 called from ..."
> It is painfull to realize today's newbies using the "free" compiler won't
> have that.

Yes they have that. the "free" compiler have traceback and AdaGIDE have a
specific option to enable a nice symbolic traceback display...

Pascal.

-- 

--|------------------------------------------------------
--| Pascal Obry                           Team-Ada Member
--| 45, rue Gabriel Peri - 78114 Magny Les Hameaux FRANCE
--|------------------------------------------------------
--|         http://perso.wanadoo.fr/pascal.obry
--|
--| "The best way to travel is by means of imagination"

Re: Newbie: Best Ada Compiler for MS Windows ?

[Robert Dewar]

tmoran@acm.org wrote in message news:<QCxs8.1712$GK7.829285487@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>...
> It is painfull to realize today's newbies using the 
> "free" compiler won't have that.


Hmmm .. it is painful to see misinformation like this
from someone who should know better than to make such
statements without checking.

The statement is of course false!

Re: Newbie: Best Ada Compiler for MS Windows ?

[tmoran]

> > It is painfull to realize today's newbies using the
> > "free" compiler won't have that.
> The statement is of course false!
  A little test program, with one (non-"free") compiler using default options,
    ada.text_io.put_line(ada.exceptions.exception_information(oops));
generated:

CONSTRAINT_ERROR
   Index or Subtype out of bounds - Pos of Error Value = -1
On Line Number 6 In TESTCON.TEST1
Called from line number 13 In TESTCON.TEST2
Called from line number 17 In TESTCON

  With Gnat 3.14p, adding the -g compile option and -E binder option and
withing a Gnat library package and replacing
  ada.exceptions.exception_information(oops)
with
  gnat.traceback.symbolic.symbolic_traceback(oops)
one gets:

004012B8 in testcon.test1 at testcon.adb:7
0040130E in testcon.test2 at testcon.adb:14
00401425 in testcon at testcon.adb:18
00401261 in main at b~testcon.adb:135
00401103 in ?? at crt1.c:0
77E97D06 in ?? at fake:0

As to the impression made on the average newbie, we apparently differ.

Re: Newbie: Best Ada Compiler for MS Windows ?

[sk]

Hi,

Using the "Put_Line (.... (oops))" in a gnat compiled 
(3.13p, with no options) test case produces :-

    Exception name: CONSTRAINT_ERROR
    Message:
test_exceptions.adb:13                                                 

which appears to be as informational, if not as detailed,
as the non-"free" compiler messages.

It is probably very stupid of me to jump into a difference 
of opinion between Dewar and Moran, but I have to ask why 
the calls

"gnat.traceback.symbolic.symbolic_traceback(oops)"

and 

"ada.text_io.put_line(ada.exceptions.exception_information(oops));"

should be considered equivalent ?


-- 
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-- Merge vertically for real address
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Re: Newbie: Best Ada Compiler for MS Windows ?

[Marin David Condic]

"sk" <noname@myob.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1018425423.3748.comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org...
>
> "gnat.traceback.symbolic.symbolic_traceback(oops)"
>
> and
>
> "ada.text_io.put_line(ada.exceptions.exception_information(oops));"
>
> should be considered equivalent ?
>

FWIW, I'd much prefer the latter since it is standard-issue Ada that will a)
work on all compilers, b) is documented in the ARM and c) what most run of
the mill Ada programmers would first attempt when trying to handle
exceptions. Making sure that Ada.Exceptions.Exception_Information yields
something useful is, IMHO, an important thing for a compiler to do. While it
may be perfectly legal Ada to return an empty string, it would clearly be
much more useful to get a string filled with a symbolic traceback. (I'd
accept having to throw some compiler switches to get it since it might be an
efficiency issue for production code, but a solution should exist.)

MDC
--
Marin David Condic
Senior Software Engineer
Pace Micro Technology Americas    www.pacemicro.com
Enabling the digital revolution
e-Mail:    marin.condic@pacemicro.com

Re: Newbie: Best Ada Compiler for MS Windows ?

[Stephen Leake]

sk <noname@myob.com> writes:

> It is probably very stupid of me to jump into a difference 
> of opinion between Dewar and Moran, but I have to ask why 
> the calls
> 
> "gnat.traceback.symbolic.symbolic_traceback(oops)"
> 
> and 
> 
> "ada.text_io.put_line(ada.exceptions.exception_information(oops));"
> 
> should be considered equivalent ?

I think the point is that they are _not_ equivalent.

Ada.Exceptions.Exception_Information is defined in the Ada standard,
and we can hope that a "newbie" will be aware of it.

GNAT.Traceback.Symbolic.Symbolic_Traceback is only defined in the
GNAT documentation, apparently we cannot hope that a "newbie" will be
aware of it.

So if our hypothetical lazy newbie tries to get a stack dump from an
exception, they will succeed with the "non-free" compiler, and fail
with GNAT.

Personally, I always read the GNAT documentation when I get a new
version of GNAT, to see what new goodies are available. Any newbie
worth their salt will do the same!

-- 
-- Stephe

Re: Newbie: Best Ada Compiler for MS Windows ?

[Marin David Condic]

But why would you want a non-standard method of getting this information
when it is (or should be) possible to get it from a standard mechanism?
"RTFM" isn't the point - it seems to me to be superior to have a textual
traceback provided by Ada.Exceptions.Exception_Information than to get it
from Vendor.Specific.Operation. (It would be nice to just see it show up
when the program dies without having to do anything special - the DEC
compilers used to be pretty good at that sort of thing - but I'll concede
that on efficiency grounds if that's the case and it isn't in the standard
anyway.)

I don't know that "lazy" is an entirely fair characterization of someone who
doesn't read through all the documentation for something. (Compilers are for
people who are too lazy to toggle in their programs from the front pannel!
:-)Most of us will take a new product and just start driving it around to
see what it will do and maybe get to the manual as we start evolving
specific questions. A newbie reading an Ada book and trying things out would
likely go to Ada.Exceptions.Exception_Information and wonder why he wasn't
getting all the info he might want. Pointing at the compiler documentation
of a non-standard way of doing it - while helpful - doesn't seem to warrant
criticism of the hypothetical newbie.

MDC
--
Marin David Condic
Senior Software Engineer
Pace Micro Technology Americas    www.pacemicro.com
Enabling the digital revolution
e-Mail:    marin.condic@pacemicro.com


"Stephen Leake" <stephen.a.leake.1@gsfc.nasa.gov> wrote in message
news:u8z7vbii4.fsf@gsfc.nasa.gov...
>
> I think the point is that they are _not_ equivalent.
>
> Ada.Exceptions.Exception_Information is defined in the Ada standard,
> and we can hope that a "newbie" will be aware of it.
>
> GNAT.Traceback.Symbolic.Symbolic_Traceback is only defined in the
> GNAT documentation, apparently we cannot hope that a "newbie" will be
> aware of it.
>
> So if our hypothetical lazy newbie tries to get a stack dump from an
> exception, they will succeed with the "non-free" compiler, and fail
> with GNAT.
>
> Personally, I always read the GNAT documentation when I get a new
> version of GNAT, to see what new goodies are available. Any newbie
> worth their salt will do the same!
>
> --
> -- Stephe

Re: Newbie: Best Ada Compiler for MS Windows ?

[Ted Dennison]

Stephen Leake <stephen.a.leake.1@gsfc.nasa.gov> wrote in message news:<u8z7vbii4.fsf@gsfc.nasa.gov>...
> So if our hypothetical lazy newbie tries to get a stack dump from an
> exception, they will succeed with the "non-free" compiler, and fail
> with GNAT.

...assuming the "non-free" compiler actually puts a stack dump in
Exception_Information. Sad to say, that's a big assumption. The last
proprietary Ada compiler I used put nothing of use in there at all.
After I complained they eventually put a stack trace in there, but it
wasn't symbolic, which meant you had to have a debugger going at the
time of the exception to make any use out of it.

Remember, the thing that makes a Free compiler cool isn't that it
doesn't cost us anything to use (in fact, that's not really the case
for many people), its that we are Free to fix annoying stuff like this
ourselves. :-)


-- 
T.E.D.
Home     -  mailto:dennison@telepath.com (Yahoo: Ted_Dennison)
Homepage -  http://www.telepath.com/dennison/Ted/TED.html

Re: Newbie: Best Ada Compiler for MS Windows ?

[tmoran]

>[creating a symbolic stack dump on exceptions]
>Remember, the thing that makes a Free compiler cool isn't that it
>doesn't cost us anything to use (in fact, that's not really the case
>for many people), its that we are Free to fix annoying stuff like this
>ourselves. :-)
  It took a long time official Gnat to have this capability.  How many
people took advantage of that Freedom and fixed it in their version
of Gnat themselves?

Re: Newbie: Best Ada Compiler for MS Windows ?

[Marin David Condic]

<tmoran@acm.org> wrote in message
news:Qfmt8.3536$qI3.1733340336@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
>   It took a long time official Gnat to have this capability.  How many
> people took advantage of that Freedom and fixed it in their version
> of Gnat themselves?


I suspect that most users of "free" software don't attempt to tinker with
the source code at all beyond possibly recompiling it. Something as large as
Gnat would require quite a bit of investment in learning curve and who
really wants to bother if they don't have to?

The only big advantage to "free" software is that should ACT go casters-up
or starts pricing themselves beyond reason, you can then make that
investment or possibly find another vendor to do it for you. For most of us
out here, I doubt this sort of thing keeps us up nights and the practical
difference between "free" and "proprietary" is more an academic exercise.

MDC
--
Marin David Condic
Senior Software Engineer
Pace Micro Technology Americas    www.pacemicro.com
Enabling the digital revolution
e-Mail:    marin.condic@pacemicro.com

Re: Newbie: Best Ada Compiler for MS Windows ?

[Ted Dennison]

tmoran@acm.org wrote in message news:<Qfmt8.3536$qI3.1733340336@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>...
> >[creating a symbolic stack dump on exceptions]
> >Remember, the thing that makes a Free compiler cool isn't that it
> >doesn't cost us anything to use (in fact, that's not really the case
> >for many people), its that we are Free to fix annoying stuff like this
> >ourselves. :-)
>   It took a long time official Gnat to have this capability.  How many
> people took advantage of that Freedom and fixed it in their version
> of Gnat themselves?

Firstly, the capability *is* there now, so it wouldn't take anywhere
near the same kind of work as developing the symbolic trace initially
took. Most likely all that would have to be done would be to find the
code that implements Exception_Information and have it call the code
that implements the custsom Gnat attribute.

Secondly, it doesn't really matter that only a small percentage of
users would be willing and able to do this. It only takes one
(assuming they are willing to share).


-- 
T.E.D.
Home     -  mailto:dennison@telepath.com (Yahoo: Ted_Dennison)
Homepage -  http://www.telepath.com/dennison/Ted/TED.html

Re: Newbie: Best Ada Compiler for MS Windows ?

[sk]

Hi,

Stephen Leake :
> ...

MDC :
> ...

TED :
> ...

I made a test program and got 

"raised CONSTRAINT_ERROR : test_exceptions.adb:5"

added an exception handler using the Ada exceptions 
packages and got

Exception name: CONSTRAINT_ERROR
Message: test_exceptions.adb:13      

In both cases, this is all I need to know.

T.Moran introduced the Gnat special packages which
produced some very unhelpful output and I had no 
idea, to the point of total confusion, why he 
thought that this made the two examples equivalent. 

Until the "Gautier" example, I did not realize that
T.Moran was making an equivalence on the information
provided and not the code.

-- 
-------------------------------------
-- Merge vertically for real address
-------------------------------------
s n p @ t . o
 k i e k c c m
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Re: Newbie: Best Ada Compiler for MS Windows ?

[tmoran]

> Exception name: CONSTRAINT_ERROR
> Message: test_exceptions.adb:13
>
> In both cases, this is all I need to know.
Does
raised ADA.NUMERICS.ARGUMENT_ERROR : a-ngelfu.adb:947 instantiated at a-nuelfu.ads:20
tell you which Sqrt call had a negative argument?  A walkback would.

Re: Newbie: Best Ada Compiler for MS Windows ?

[sk]

Hi,

> Does raised ADA.NUMERICS.ARGUMENT_ERROR : ...

Perfectly good point and I don't disagree, but not my issue.

Handful of names on "cla" which it behoves one to notice.

Two of those names take contrary positions on a public 
forum and they do not seem as if they are going to explain
the situation.

One position leaves me totally at a loss. 

That position introduces extra code and then uses
the results of that as an example of user unfriendliness.

It seemed like adding a teaspoon of salt to a sugar bowl 
until the "Gautier" example showed me that the real issue 
was one of default traceback abilities.


Separate issue:

I gave up using traceback information several years ago.

Vague memories of Janus, Meridian (<- late 80's versions), 
DEC VAX, DEC OSF/Motif and Rational Apex error handling led
me to totally ignore anything but the line number and source 
file. The only traceback that I found useful was on Rational 
clusters which would take me right to the line in the source 
text (let me know when your "non-free" compiler does this, 
and I might consider buying it :-).

So please forgive me for not realizing the significance of 

>Called from line number 13 In TESTCON.TEST2
>Called from line number 17 In TESTCON

-- 
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-- Merge vertically for real address
-------------------------------------
s n p @ t . o
 k i e k c c m
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Re: Newbie: Best Ada Compiler for MS Windows ?

[S Campion]

"Marin David Condic" <dont.bother.mcondic.auntie.spam@[acm.org> wrote:

>"D De Villiers" <ddevilliers@lando.co.za> wrote in message
>news:a8p493$2ef$2@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
>>
>> I'm only interested in Ada and other languages (ALGOL, Modula-2, PL/I etc)
>> as a hobby ! :) I'm using QBASIC and also BCX
>> (http://www.users.qwest.net/~sdiggins/bcx.htm).

Try Delphi 6 .
The personal edition is free.


--------------------------------------------------------
"Think not of life and children first, and of justice 
afterwards, but of justice first, that you may be 
justified before the princes of the world below. 

This is the voice which I seem to hear murmuring in 
my ears, like the sound of the flute in the ears of the mystic; 
that voice, I say, is humming in my ears,
and prevents me from hearing any other. "

Socrates in Plato's Crito

Re: Newbie: Best Ada Compiler for MS Windows ?

[Marin David Condic]

For the record - I didn't say this....

MDC
--
Marin David Condic
Senior Software Engineer
Pace Micro Technology Americas    www.pacemicro.com
Enabling the digital revolution
e-Mail:    marin.condic@pacemicro.com


"S Campion" <fundamentally_flawed@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ffohbu8pj6g3p3g379ut029roi0clo8joa@4ax.com...
> "Marin David Condic" <dont.bother.mcondic.auntie.spam@[acm.org> wrote:
>
> >"D De Villiers" <ddevilliers@lando.co.za> wrote in message
> >news:a8p493$2ef$2@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
> >>
> >> I'm only interested in Ada and other languages (ALGOL, Modula-2, PL/I
etc)
> >> as a hobby ! :) I'm using QBASIC and also BCX
> >> (http://www.users.qwest.net/~sdiggins/bcx.htm).
>
> Try Delphi 6 .
> The personal edition is free.
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> "Think not of life and children first, and of justice
> afterwards, but of justice first, that you may be
> justified before the princes of the world below.
>
> This is the voice which I seem to hear murmuring in
> my ears, like the sound of the flute in the ears of the mystic;
> that voice, I say, is humming in my ears,
> and prevents me from hearing any other. "
>
> Socrates in Plato's Crito