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From: "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de>
Subject: Re: Ada Successor Language
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2018 10:34:34 +0200
Date: 2018-06-24T10:34:34+02:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <pgnl2q$19tv$1@gioia.aioe.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 878t75nwad.fsf@adaheads.home

On 2018-06-23 21:21, Jacob Sparre Andersen wrote:
> Dmitry A. Kazakov wrote:
> 
>> 5. No proper separation of interface and implementation. If you used
>> Ada generics you would know that successful compilation of a generic
>> body means little. Instantiation can always fail even if all formal
>> parameters match. The compiler must look into the body not just for
>> the sake of optimization and representation, but for validity of
>> instantiation, just like in C++. A macro is a macro.
> 
> If the compilation of a generic succeeds, then any instantiation with
> actuals matching the formal generic parameters have to succeed, no
> matter what's in the implementation of the generic.

That is not possible because generic formal contracts are weakly typed. 
Consider, for simplicity, this:

    with Ada.Finalization;
    generic
       type T is new Ada.Finalization.Controlled with private;
    package P is
       type S is new T with null record;
       not overriding procedure Foo (X : S);
    end P;

If the given descendant of Controlled has Foo already, you are out of 
luck. The contract says: any descendant of Ada.Finalization.Controlled. 
That is a lie.

> If that somehow isn't the case in the very newest version of the
> standard, then the ARG has messed up, and I doubt that.

No, it is a fundamental problem of the generic formal contracts (and 
macro processing).

No contract can describe all behavior. In the first-order language we 
handle that by adding run-time exceptions. So when you substitute 
Positive where a full Integer is expected you get Constraint_Error and 
since the exception is in the contract, the contract is saved.

In the second-order language, like generics, there is no such escape. 
The "behavior" of a generic program is the generated source text in the 
first-order language to compile. If something goes wrong, the exception 
is compile fault (or letting the garbage through). You can try to

1. strengthen generic formal contracts

2. weaken the generic language

#1 is extremely difficult (if possible) and would lead to explosion of 
RM rules. #2 will render generics useless.

-- 
Regards,
Dmitry A. Kazakov
http://www.dmitry-kazakov.de


  reply	other threads:[~2018-06-24  8:34 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 212+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2018-06-02  4:43 Ada Successor Language Shark8
2018-06-02  6:52 ` Luke A. Guest
2018-06-04  2:27   ` Dan'l Miller
2018-06-04 21:06   ` Dan'l Miller
2018-06-05 12:31     ` Lucretia
2018-06-02  8:12 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-06-02 12:14   ` Mehdi Saada
2018-06-02 12:43     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-06-03  7:39       ` Safety of user-defined operators (was: Ada Successor Language) G.B.
2018-06-03  7:58         ` Safety of user-defined operators Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-06-02 12:57     ` Ada Successor Language Luke A. Guest
2018-06-04 21:17       ` Randy Brukardt
2018-06-02 13:48 ` Dan'l Miller
2018-06-03 10:01 ` ric.wai88
2018-06-03 13:04   ` Dan'l Miller
2018-06-03 13:09   ` Shark8
2018-06-03 15:14     ` Lucretia
2018-06-03 15:09   ` Lucretia
2018-06-03 15:14     ` ric.wai88
2018-06-03 15:16       ` Lucretia
2018-06-03 15:22         ` ric.wai88
2018-06-03 15:31           ` Lucretia
2018-06-03 15:41             ` ric.wai88
2018-06-03 15:54     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-06-03 16:43     ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2018-06-04  5:01       ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2018-06-04  7:19         ` Simon Wright
2018-06-04  7:44           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-06-04 13:53             ` Björn Lundin
2018-06-04 16:54             ` G. B.
2018-06-04 19:37               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-06-04 22:12                 ` G.B.
2018-06-05  7:18                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-06-04 13:25           ` Lucretia
2018-06-04 14:08           ` Dan'l Miller
2018-06-04 14:55             ` Lucretia
2018-06-26 13:58         ` jm.tarrasa
2018-06-26 18:44           ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2018-06-03 18:44     ` Björn Lundin
2018-06-03 19:37     ` Paul Rubin
2018-06-03 23:56       ` Dan'l Miller
2018-06-04  0:24         ` Paul Rubin
2018-06-04  0:41           ` Ben Bacarisse
2018-06-04  2:01         ` ric.wai88
2018-06-05 16:46     ` Alejandro R. Mosteo
2018-06-06 21:02       ` gautier_niouzes
2018-06-08 10:03         ` Alejandro R. Mosteo
2018-06-04  3:19 ` John Smith
2018-06-04 20:56 ` Mehdi Saada
2018-06-04 21:14 ` Paul Rubin
2018-06-05  0:17   ` Shark8
2018-06-05 16:01     ` Dan'l Miller
2018-06-18  3:31     ` Dan'l Miller
2018-06-18  6:58       ` Björn Lundin
2018-06-18 12:33         ` Dan'l Miller
2018-06-18 19:16       ` Niklas Holsti
2018-06-18 19:28         ` Dan'l Miller
2018-06-18 20:22         ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2018-06-18 20:45           ` Niklas Holsti
2018-06-18 21:20             ` Shark8
2018-06-18 21:27               ` ric.wai88
2018-06-18 21:51                 ` Shark8
2018-06-22 11:14                 ` Alejandro R. Mosteo
2018-06-18 22:23               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-06-18 22:36                 ` Paul Rubin
2018-06-19  0:10                   ` Dan'l Miller
2018-06-19 20:32                     ` Paul Rubin
2018-06-19 20:37                       ` Dan'l Miller
2018-06-20  8:30                     ` Marius Amado-Alves
2018-06-19  7:58                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-06-19 19:19                     ` Paul Rubin
2018-06-19 19:30                       ` Dan'l Miller
2018-06-19 19:39                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-06-19 20:30                         ` Paul Rubin
2018-06-20  7:13                           ` Simon Wright
2018-06-29 20:11                             ` Randy Brukardt
2018-06-20  7:59                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-06-22 11:14                             ` Alejandro R. Mosteo
2018-06-23 19:21                             ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2018-06-24  8:34                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov [this message]
2018-06-24  9:19                                 ` J-P. Rosen
2018-06-25  7:00                                   ` briot.emmanuel
2018-06-25  8:23                                   ` Marius Amado-Alves
2018-06-29 20:20                                 ` Randy Brukardt
2018-06-25  8:58                               ` Alejandro R. Mosteo
2018-06-25  9:19                                 ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2018-06-25 12:41                                 ` J-P. Rosen
2018-06-25 14:03                                   ` Niklas Holsti
2018-06-25 14:21                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-06-25 14:44                                       ` J-P. Rosen
2018-06-25 15:19                                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-06-25 16:21                                           ` Dan'l Miller
2018-06-26  7:44                                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-06-26 13:59                                               ` Dan'l Miller
2018-06-26 14:05                                                 ` ric.wai88
2018-06-26 15:38                                                   ` Simon Wright
2018-06-26 16:50                                                     ` Dan'l Miller
2018-06-26 17:25                                                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-06-26 18:47                                                         ` Dan'l Miller
2018-06-26 19:29                                                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-06-26 20:03                                                             ` Dan'l Miller
2018-06-26 20:59                                                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-06-29  3:11                                                               ` Paul Rubin
2018-06-29  3:37                                                                 ` Dan'l Miller
2018-06-29  3:48                                                                   ` Paul Rubin
2018-06-29  7:29                                                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-06-29  7:20                                                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-06-29 13:25                                                                   ` Dan'l Miller
2018-06-29 17:39                                                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-06-29 19:46                                                                       ` Dan'l Miller
2018-06-29 21:36                                                                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-06-29 22:21                                                                           ` Dan'l Miller
2018-06-26 21:15                                                     ` Niklas Holsti
2018-06-27  7:07                                                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-06-26 14:17                                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-06-26 14:42                                                   ` Dan'l Miller
2018-06-26 14:47                                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-06-26 21:01                                                 ` Niklas Holsti
2018-06-26 22:03                                                   ` Dan'l Miller
2018-06-27  2:28                                                     ` Dan'l Miller
2018-06-27  2:58                                                       ` Dan'l Miller
2018-06-27  7:15                                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-06-27 16:33                                                       ` Dan'l Miller
2018-06-27 19:11                                                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-06-25 18:05                                           ` J-P. Rosen
2018-06-26  7:42                                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-06-25 19:32                                         ` Niklas Holsti
2018-06-25 19:16                                       ` Niklas Holsti
2018-06-25 20:13                                         ` Dan'l Miller
2018-06-25 20:52                                           ` Niklas Holsti
2018-06-26  7:57                                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-06-26 20:16                                     ` J-P. Rosen
2018-06-26 20:49                                       ` Niklas Holsti
2018-06-26 21:09                                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-06-29 20:35                                     ` Randy Brukardt
2018-06-25 14:18                                   ` Alejandro R. Mosteo
2018-06-29 20:47                                     ` Randy Brukardt
2018-06-29 20:23                                 ` Randy Brukardt
2018-07-02  9:37                                   ` Alejandro R. Mosteo
2018-06-29 20:17                             ` Randy Brukardt
2018-06-29 22:11                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-06-29 22:36                                 ` Randy Brukardt
2018-06-30  8:34                                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-06-19 21:07                         ` Dan'l Miller
2018-06-20  7:33                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-06-22 11:13                             ` Alejandro R. Mosteo
2018-06-22 16:02                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-06-25  8:20                                 ` Marius Amado-Alves
2018-06-26 17:20                                   ` Shark8
2018-06-26 17:42                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-06-25  8:21                                 ` Paul Rubin
2018-06-25  9:12                                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-06-22 15:18                             ` Dan'l Miller
2018-06-22 15:49                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-06-19  2:45                 ` Shark8
2018-06-19  7:50                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-06-19 15:35                 ` Shark8
2018-06-19  7:35               ` G. B.
2018-06-19 11:36                 ` Dan'l Miller
2018-06-19 15:37                 ` Shark8
2018-06-19 17:07                   ` G. B.
2018-06-29 20:05               ` Randy Brukardt
2018-06-29 23:18                 ` Shark8
2018-07-03 21:39                   ` Randy Brukardt
2018-06-19  0:20         ` Lucretia
2018-06-19 11:51           ` Dan'l Miller
2018-06-19 13:54             ` Dan'l Miller
2018-06-06  9:13   ` Niklas Holsti
2018-06-08 16:28     ` Dan'l Miller
2018-06-08 16:56       ` Mehdi Saada
2018-06-08 17:33       ` Shark8
2018-06-12  1:51         ` Dan'l Miller
2018-06-12 15:23           ` Luke A. Guest
2018-06-12 15:44             ` Dan'l Miller
2018-06-12 17:59               ` Luke A. Guest
2018-06-13 16:03                 ` Dan'l Miller
2018-06-13 16:20                   ` Luke A. Guest
2018-06-13 18:04               ` G. B.
2018-06-13  5:53             ` Shark8
2018-06-13  6:57               ` Simon Wright
2018-06-13 18:58                 ` Shark8
2018-06-13 19:19                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-06-14  3:19                     ` Lucretia
2018-06-14  7:26                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-06-14 11:25                         ` Lucretia
2018-06-14 12:22                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-06-15  3:35                             ` Lucretia
2018-06-15  7:20                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-06-15 16:03                                 ` Lucretia
2018-06-15 20:50                                   ` Dennis Lee Bieber
2018-06-15 11:38                     ` jm.tarrasa
2018-06-15 12:06                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-06-15 15:42                         ` J-P. Rosen
2018-06-15 17:30                           ` Simon Wright
2018-06-15 17:55                           ` jm.tarrasa
2018-06-15 19:58                             ` Shark8
2018-06-16  7:04                               ` Simon Wright
2018-06-16  9:14                               ` jm.tarrasa
2018-06-16 10:22                                 ` Simon Wright
2018-06-16 10:50                                   ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2018-06-16 11:32                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-06-13 21:15                   ` Paul Rubin
2018-06-14  3:20                     ` Lucretia
2018-06-14  3:27                     ` Shark8
2018-06-14  5:17                       ` Paul Rubin
2018-06-14 21:00                   ` Randy Brukardt
2018-06-15  3:41                     ` Lucretia
2018-06-15  7:08                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-06-15  7:15                     ` Simon Wright
2018-06-14  8:51                 ` Marius Amado-Alves
2018-06-08 20:38 ` Mehdi Saada
2018-06-13  5:46   ` Shark8
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