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From: "Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)" <yannick_duchene@yahoo.fr>
Subject: Re: Seeking for papers about tagged types vs access to subprograms
Date: Sun, 12 May 2013 10:21:49 +0200
Date: 2013-05-12T10:21:49+02:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <op.wwypinhaule2fv@cardamome> (raw)
In-Reply-To: xrlivgfvo6vp.1w3qblmw5gfzr.dlg@40tude.net

Le Sun, 12 May 2013 09:14:41 +0200, Dmitry A. Kazakov  
<mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> a écrit:

> To put it simply: if a type is designed in a way that limits it use, it  
> is
> a poor design.

The sense or meaning, both in natural and formal languages, comes from  
restricting possible interpretations.

> You are conflating the
> semantics of a type with the semantics of *a* program that uses this type
> somewhere, somehow.

Precisely, I see types as constituents of a domain, so also as  
constituents of applications of the domain. I'm guessing I'm not the only  
one.

We may diverge here, in short I would say: I don't want bricks giving the  
illusions I may always be able to use it to build something which may or  
may not fails, I want bricks which will tell the sooner I will not be able  
to use it in some invalid ways if I want something which will not fail (or  
at least reduce potentials for failures, as program proof is more than  
that).

What I don't understand is: how something which give the illusion it has  
no prerequisites, can help in constructing safer and more trustable  
architectures? Reusing is nice, however only where it, and in a way which,  
make sense for the domain (I don't believe an exception is meaningful,  
that's not a value, that's a runtime error). Seems the invariably `True`  
precondition wants to give the illusion of universal reuse without  
conditions. With all precondition moved to the postcondition, the program  
has more potential for erroneous interpretation, because that may turns  
into a lot more decision paths in the program after each invocation.

I will not argue that much on this issue, as that may involves personal  
feeling.


-- 
“Syntactic sugar causes cancer of the semi-colons.” [1]
“Structured Programming supports the law of the excluded muddle.” [1]
[1]: Epigrams on Programming — Alan J. — P. Yale University


  parent reply	other threads:[~2013-05-12  8:21 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 202+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2013-04-28  5:14 Seeking for papers about tagged types vs access to subprograms Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2013-04-30  0:31 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2013-04-30  0:41   ` Shark8
2013-04-30  1:00     ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2013-05-02  1:18       ` Randy Brukardt
2013-05-02  2:29         ` Jeffrey Carter
2013-05-06 10:00   ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2013-05-06 10:18     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2013-05-06 10:55       ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2013-05-06 12:11         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2013-05-06 13:16           ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2013-05-06 14:16             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2013-05-06 15:15               ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2013-05-06 18:55                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2013-05-06 20:05                   ` Adam Beneschan
2013-05-07  7:30                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2013-05-10  4:33                     ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2013-05-07 20:35                   ` Jacob Sparre Andersen news
2013-05-07 20:44                     ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2013-05-07 22:32                     ` Dennis Lee Bieber
2013-05-07 23:10                       ` Adam Beneschan
2013-05-08  0:18                     ` Shark8
2013-05-10  4:34                       ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2013-05-10  8:27                         ` Simon Wright
2013-05-10 18:08                         ` Niklas Holsti
2013-05-08  7:38                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2013-05-08  7:59                       ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2013-05-08  8:23                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2013-05-08  9:39                           ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2013-05-08  9:51                             ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2013-05-08 10:23                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2013-05-08 11:08                               ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2013-05-08 15:29                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2013-05-08 16:13                                   ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2013-05-08 18:17                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2013-05-10  4:35                                       ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2013-05-08 20:27                                   ` Randy Brukardt
2013-05-09  7:33                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2013-05-09 22:19                                       ` Randy Brukardt
2013-05-10  3:29                                         ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2013-05-10  4:16                                           ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2013-05-10  8:42                                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2013-05-10 11:18                                             ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2013-05-10 12:15                                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2013-05-10 12:40                                                 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2013-05-10 12:59                                                   ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2013-05-10 13:54                                                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2013-05-10 14:01                                                     ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2013-05-10 14:27                                                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2013-05-10 15:20                                                         ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2013-05-11  7:22                                                         ` Georg Bauhaus
2013-05-10 18:04                                           ` Niklas Holsti
2013-05-10 19:33                                             ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2013-05-11  0:18                                             ` Randy Brukardt
2013-05-11  7:14                                               ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2013-05-11 21:06                                               ` Niklas Holsti
2013-05-11 23:19                                                 ` Shark8
2013-05-12  6:09                                                   ` Niklas Holsti
2013-05-14  2:02                                                     ` Randy Brukardt
2013-05-12  6:44                                                 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2013-05-12  8:10                                                   ` Niklas Holsti
2013-05-12  8:49                                                     ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2013-05-12 18:56                                                     ` Jeffrey Carter
2013-05-12 22:15                                                       ` Robert A Duff
2013-05-13  0:26                                                         ` Jeffrey Carter
2013-05-13  7:03                                                         ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2013-05-13 13:15                                                           ` Robert A Duff
2013-05-13 17:30                                                             ` Jeffrey Carter
2013-05-13 18:01                                                               ` J-P. Rosen
2013-05-13 18:39                                                                 ` Bill Findlay
2013-05-13 18:57                                                                 ` Jeffrey Carter
2013-05-13 19:13                                                                 ` Robert A Duff
2013-05-13 20:38                                                                   ` J-P. Rosen
2013-05-14  7:26                                                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2013-05-14 20:00                                                                       ` Robert A Duff
2013-05-15 10:10                                                                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2013-05-14 19:56                                                                     ` Robert A Duff
2013-05-15  4:24                                                                       ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2013-05-15  9:28                                                                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2013-05-15 11:31                                                                           ` Peter C. Chapin
2013-05-15 12:32                                                                             ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2013-05-15 19:59                                                                               ` Peter C. Chapin
2013-05-15 20:56                                                                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2013-05-15 12:46                                                                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2013-05-15 18:15                                                                             ` Jeffrey Carter
2013-05-15 19:18                                                                               ` Eryndlia Mavourneen
2013-05-15 19:57                                                                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2013-05-15 20:37                                                                                   ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2013-05-15 20:48                                                                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2013-05-16 12:45                                                                                       ` Eryndlia Mavourneen
2013-05-16 17:16                                                                                         ` Jeffrey Carter
2013-05-16  9:41                                                                                 ` G.B.
2013-05-16 12:35                                                                                   ` J-P. Rosen
2013-05-15 14:21                                                                       ` J-P. Rosen
2013-05-14  2:14                                                         ` Randy Brukardt
2013-05-14 19:35                                                           ` Robert A Duff
2013-05-15  4:11                                                             ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2013-05-16 23:36                                                             ` Randy Brukardt
2013-05-13  5:21                                                       ` Niklas Holsti
2013-05-13  7:22                                                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2013-05-13  8:23                                                           ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2013-05-13 19:20                                                           ` Niklas Holsti
2013-05-14  8:14                                                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2013-05-10  3:47                                         ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2013-05-11  0:22                                           ` Randy Brukardt
2013-05-11  7:22                                             ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2013-05-10  3:59                                         ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2013-05-10  4:03                                         ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2013-05-10  7:48                                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2013-05-10  8:12                                           ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2013-05-10 15:11                                             ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2013-05-11  0:42                                           ` Randy Brukardt
2013-05-11  6:37                                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2013-05-11  7:06                                               ` Georg Bauhaus
2013-05-11  7:42                                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2013-05-11  8:14                                                   ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2013-05-14  2:29                                                   ` Randy Brukardt
2013-05-14  7:44                                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2013-05-14 11:34                                                       ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2013-05-14 12:16                                                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2013-05-14 13:13                                                           ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2013-05-14 18:41                                                           ` Randy Brukardt
2013-05-15 11:20                                                           ` Peter C. Chapin
2013-05-15 13:00                                                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2013-05-15 21:12                                                               ` Peter C. Chapin
2013-05-15 22:08                                                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2013-05-16 11:31                                                                   ` Peter C. Chapin
2013-05-16 11:56                                                                     ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2013-05-16 12:20                                                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2013-05-16 13:10                                                                       ` Peter C. Chapin
2013-05-16 13:54                                                                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2013-05-16 17:15                                                                           ` G.B.
2013-05-16 18:09                                                                             ` Peter C. Chapin
2013-05-16 19:16                                                                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2013-05-16 21:59                                                                                 ` Georg Bauhaus
2013-05-17 19:57                                                                                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2013-05-16 21:20                                                                               ` Niklas Holsti
2013-05-16 23:20                                                                                 ` Peter C. Chapin
2013-05-17  5:25                                                                                   ` Niklas Holsti
2013-05-17  7:53                                                                                   ` Georg Bauhaus
2013-05-16 13:09                                                                     ` Eryndlia Mavourneen
2013-05-11  7:58                                               ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2013-05-11  9:08                                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2013-05-11 18:14                                                 ` Niklas Holsti
2013-05-11  8:03                                               ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2013-05-11  9:16                                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2013-05-11 11:49                                                   ` Georg Bauhaus
2013-05-11 12:25                                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2013-05-11 22:51                                                   ` Robert A Duff
2013-05-12  6:02                                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2013-05-12  6:25                                                       ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2013-05-12  7:14                                                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2013-05-12  7:37                                                           ` Simon Wright
2013-05-12  7:59                                                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2013-05-12  8:21                                                           ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57) [this message]
2013-05-12  9:25                                                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2013-05-12  9:32                                                               ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2013-05-12 10:07                                                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2013-05-11  7:32                                             ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2013-05-11  7:46                                             ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2013-05-14 12:46                                         ` Weaker typing as a part of the way to stronger typing? (Was: Seeking for papers about tagged types vs access to subprograms) Jacob Sparre Andersen
2013-05-14 19:08                                           ` Randy Brukardt
2013-05-10 16:02                                       ` Seeking for papers about tagged types vs access to subprograms Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2013-05-08 20:12                       ` Randy Brukardt
2013-05-09  7:50                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2013-05-09 21:43                           ` Randy Brukardt
2013-05-10  4:39                             ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2013-05-10  7:49                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2013-05-11  0:09                               ` Randy Brukardt
2013-05-11  6:40                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2013-05-14  3:01                                   ` Randy Brukardt
2013-05-14  8:32                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2013-05-14 19:02                                       ` Randy Brukardt
2013-05-15  4:43                                         ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2013-05-16 23:27                                           ` Randy Brukardt
2013-05-15  9:14                                       ` G.B.
2013-05-15 12:08                                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2013-05-15 14:43                                           ` G.B.
2013-05-15 15:02                                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2013-05-14 19:21                                     ` Robert A Duff
2013-05-10  4:29                   ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2013-05-07  1:14             ` Randy Brukardt
2013-05-07  2:42               ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2013-05-07  1:09     ` Randy Brukardt
2013-05-07  7:41       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2013-05-07 20:27         ` Jacob Sparre Andersen news
2013-05-07 20:40           ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2013-05-08  7:57           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2013-05-08 20:37             ` Randy Brukardt
2013-05-09  8:04               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2013-05-09 21:33                 ` Randy Brukardt
2013-05-10  7:15                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2013-05-11  1:00                     ` Randy Brukardt
2013-05-11  7:08                       ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2013-05-11  7:12                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2013-05-14  2:52                         ` Randy Brukardt
2013-05-11  5:31                     ` Simon Wright
2013-05-11  7:22                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2013-05-02  1:09 ` Randy Brukardt
2013-05-02  6:56   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2013-05-02 21:49     ` Randy Brukardt
2013-05-03  6:49       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
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