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From: "Vinzent Hoefler" <0439279208b62c95f1880bf0f8776eeb@t-domaingrabbing.de>
Subject: Re: How would Ariane 5 have behaved if overflow checking were not turned off?
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 11:42:57 +0100
Date: 2011-03-20T11:42:57+01:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <op.vsm1dvcolzeukk@jellix.jlfencey.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 4d8475d5$0$43834$c30e37c6@exi-reader.telstra.net

robin wrote:

> So the specification was to guarantee failure?

If you want to put it that way, yes. If Ariane 4 would have encountered
such a value in _both_ SRIs, the safest assumption at this point would
have been a complete failure. Mission aborted, all doomed.

> They chose not to protect three data conversions, thinking that it [overflow]
> couldn't happen.

NO. They did not protect it, because they knew if the overflow happened,
it must have been a hardware problem.

> Because those three data conversions [from floating-point to 16-bit signed integer]
> were not protected, they could raise an overflow exception.
> One of them did, and thus guaranteed failure of the mission.

Yes. What's your point?

>> Specwise the overflow could only be interpreted as a hardware fault
>> at that point. A reboot (what a lot of systems would try) would take
>> too long for the system, so the requirement was to cease operation.
>> And it did exactly that. _Any_ error handler would have been required
>> to do that -
>
> The job of the programmer was to prevent such an error occurring.
> The four other similar conversions HAD protection,

Because they were more likely to happen under certain circumstances.

> so it wasn't as you say, namely, that "overflow could only be
> interpreted as a hardware fault".

It was precisely that. If the digital speedometer in your car suddenly
jumps from say 100 mph to 32767 mph, what would you assume? A hardware
fault (in the sensor preferrably) or a real reading?

>> and the one in place (which was just the default handler)
>> did it quite as well as any other.
>>
>> You're trying to blame the software for following its specification?
>
> It wasn't following the specification.  It was important that
> such a conversion error be protected, and not to shut down the system.

On the contrary. It was not specified to continue flight beyond operation
limits.


Vinzent.

-- 
A C program is like a fast dance on a newly waxed dance floor by people carrying
razors.
    --  Waldi Ravens



  reply	other threads:[~2011-03-20 10:42 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 79+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2011-03-14 15:49 How would Ariane 5 have behaved if overflow checking were not turned off? Elias Salomão Helou Neto
2011-03-14 16:17 ` KK6GM
2011-03-14 19:25   ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-03-14 19:28     ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-03-14 20:28     ` KK6GM
2011-03-15  4:02       ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-03-15  4:53         ` Shark8
2011-03-14 18:29 ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-03-16 10:41   ` How would Ariane 5 have behaved if overflow checking were notturned off? robin
2011-03-16 15:16     ` Simon Wright
2011-03-17 11:48       ` robin
2011-03-16 16:58     ` Martin Krischik
2011-03-16 23:39       ` How would Ariane 5 have behaved if overflow checking werenotturned off? robin
2011-03-17 18:48         ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-03-18 12:06         ` Alex R. Mosteo
2011-03-18 21:15           ` How would Ariane 5 have behaved if overflow checking were not turned off? robin
2011-03-20 10:42             ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-03-20 17:06         ` How would Ariane 5 have behaved if overflow checking werenotturned off? Martin Krischik
2011-03-20 17:11         ` Martin Krischik
2011-03-20 18:10           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-03-21 13:24         ` Leif Roar Moldskred
2011-03-20 13:07       ` How would Ariane 5 have behaved if overflow checking were notturned off? Florian Weimer
2011-03-20 17:00         ` Martin Krischik
2011-03-20 20:17           ` Florian Weimer
2011-03-20 20:37             ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-03-20 20:14         ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-03-16 18:20     ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-03-16 18:29       ` Hyman Rosen
2011-03-16 18:55         ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-03-16 19:40         ` KK6GM
2011-03-16 20:52           ` Hyman Rosen
2011-03-16 21:02             ` KK6GM
2011-03-16 21:09             ` Shark8
2011-03-16 21:13               ` Hyman Rosen
2011-03-16 21:35                 ` Shark8
2011-03-16 22:27             ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-03-16 21:04           ` Shark8
2011-03-16 21:10             ` Hyman Rosen
2011-03-16 21:27               ` KK6GM
2011-03-16 21:31               ` Shark8
2011-03-16 22:32               ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-03-18 21:14           ` How would Ariane 5 have behaved if overflow checking were not turned off? robin
2011-03-16 23:46       ` How would Ariane 5 have behaved if overflow checking werenotturned off? robin
2011-03-17  0:26         ` Simon Wright
2011-03-17 11:01           ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-03-17 11:04           ` robin
2011-03-17 13:36             ` Niklas Holsti
2011-03-18 21:13               ` How would Ariane 5 have behaved if overflow checking were not turned off? robin
2011-03-19 10:12                 ` Niklas Holsti
2011-03-17 22:51         ` How would Ariane 5 have behaved if overflow checking werenotturned off? Vinzent Hoefler
2011-03-18 21:13           ` How would Ariane 5 have behaved if overflow checking were not turned off? robin
2011-03-20 10:42             ` Vinzent Hoefler [this message]
2011-03-15  6:28 ` Stephen Leake
2011-03-15 17:32   ` Keith Thompson
2011-03-15 17:40     ` KK6GM
2011-03-15 19:44     ` Robert A Duff
2011-03-15 19:12   ` Florian Weimer
2011-03-15 19:45     ` KK6GM
2011-03-15 19:57     ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-03-20 13:00       ` Florian Weimer
2011-03-20 20:13         ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-03-15 19:42   ` John B. Matthews
2011-03-17 11:44   ` robin
2011-03-17 18:37     ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-03-17 23:04       ` How would Ariane 5 have behaved if overflow checking were notturned off? robin
2011-03-18 15:55         ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-03-17 21:37     ` How would Ariane 5 have behaved if overflow checking were not turned off? Vinzent Hoefler
2011-03-16 10:33 ` robin
2011-03-16 15:08   ` Simon Wright
2011-03-17 12:39     ` robin
2011-03-17 13:41       ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-03-17 23:34         ` How would Ariane 5 have behaved if overflow checking were notturned off? robin
2011-03-18 12:57           ` Hyman Rosen
2011-03-18 16:49             ` KK6GM
2011-03-18 17:18               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-03-19 17:55                 ` Keith Thompson
2011-03-20 18:39                   ` Robert A Duff
2011-03-17 18:43       ` How would Ariane 5 have behaved if overflow checking were not turned off? Vinzent Hoefler
2011-03-17 20:58       ` Simon Wright
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