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From: "Vinzent Hoefler" <0439279208b62c95f1880bf0f8776eeb@t-domaingrabbing.de>
Subject: Re: How would Ariane 5 have behaved if overflow checking were not turned off?
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 19:43:07 +0100
Date: 2011-03-17T19:43:07+01:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <op.vsh3l5cklzeukk@jellix.jlfencey.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 4d8200ce$0$43837$c30e37c6@exi-reader.telstra.net

robin wrote:

> Simon Wright wrote in message ...
>> "robin" <robin51@dodo.com.au> writes:
>>
>>> Anyone competent in real-time programming would never have let the
>>> software go with unhandled overflow, because such an event would
>>> result in failure of the mission.
>>
>> The engineers, being competent in tightly-constrained real-time
>> programming, found that installing exception handlers cost cpu cycles
>> they could not afford, so looked at all the potential overflow sites and
>> found that _this_ one could only occur if there was a hardware
>> failure.
>
> Nonsense.  The Full Report says nothing of the kind.

But the documentation does. :P

> No, the exception handler could have done something sensible,
> such as using the maximum integer value, thus allowing the trajectory to continue.
> Better still would have been to include a magnitude test in the code that avoided
> the need for an error handler.

And then what? Using a bogus value to continue the flight? Admitted,
it might even have been worked for Ariane 5, but the system was designed
for Ariane 4 and I DO NOT think that using such a large value to continue
the calculation would have done anything good there, because using flight
parameters well outside of any operational limits simply can't be a
good idea. If it was, you could just get rid of all sensors and replace
them by random generators.

> There were 7 places in the code in the vicinity where overflow could occur.
> Four were chosen for protection, but three were not.
> That was the fatal flaw.

If they had protected all theoretically possible overflows, the software
wouldn't have been able to fulfill the mission due to missing its deadline.

I don't see how _this_ could possibly be considered flawless.


Vinzent.

-- 
A C program is like a fast dance on a newly waxed dance floor by people carrying
razors.
   --  Waldi Ravens



  parent reply	other threads:[~2011-03-17 18:43 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 79+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2011-03-14 15:49 How would Ariane 5 have behaved if overflow checking were not turned off? Elias Salomão Helou Neto
2011-03-14 16:17 ` KK6GM
2011-03-14 19:25   ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-03-14 19:28     ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-03-14 20:28     ` KK6GM
2011-03-15  4:02       ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-03-15  4:53         ` Shark8
2011-03-14 18:29 ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-03-16 10:41   ` How would Ariane 5 have behaved if overflow checking were notturned off? robin
2011-03-16 15:16     ` Simon Wright
2011-03-17 11:48       ` robin
2011-03-16 16:58     ` Martin Krischik
2011-03-16 23:39       ` How would Ariane 5 have behaved if overflow checking werenotturned off? robin
2011-03-17 18:48         ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-03-18 12:06         ` Alex R. Mosteo
2011-03-18 21:15           ` How would Ariane 5 have behaved if overflow checking were not turned off? robin
2011-03-20 10:42             ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-03-20 17:06         ` How would Ariane 5 have behaved if overflow checking werenotturned off? Martin Krischik
2011-03-20 17:11         ` Martin Krischik
2011-03-20 18:10           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-03-21 13:24         ` Leif Roar Moldskred
2011-03-20 13:07       ` How would Ariane 5 have behaved if overflow checking were notturned off? Florian Weimer
2011-03-20 17:00         ` Martin Krischik
2011-03-20 20:17           ` Florian Weimer
2011-03-20 20:37             ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-03-20 20:14         ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-03-16 18:20     ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-03-16 18:29       ` Hyman Rosen
2011-03-16 18:55         ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-03-16 19:40         ` KK6GM
2011-03-16 20:52           ` Hyman Rosen
2011-03-16 21:02             ` KK6GM
2011-03-16 21:09             ` Shark8
2011-03-16 21:13               ` Hyman Rosen
2011-03-16 21:35                 ` Shark8
2011-03-16 22:27             ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-03-16 21:04           ` Shark8
2011-03-16 21:10             ` Hyman Rosen
2011-03-16 21:27               ` KK6GM
2011-03-16 21:31               ` Shark8
2011-03-16 22:32               ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-03-18 21:14           ` How would Ariane 5 have behaved if overflow checking were not turned off? robin
2011-03-16 23:46       ` How would Ariane 5 have behaved if overflow checking werenotturned off? robin
2011-03-17  0:26         ` Simon Wright
2011-03-17 11:01           ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-03-17 11:04           ` robin
2011-03-17 13:36             ` Niklas Holsti
2011-03-18 21:13               ` How would Ariane 5 have behaved if overflow checking were not turned off? robin
2011-03-19 10:12                 ` Niklas Holsti
2011-03-17 22:51         ` How would Ariane 5 have behaved if overflow checking werenotturned off? Vinzent Hoefler
2011-03-18 21:13           ` How would Ariane 5 have behaved if overflow checking were not turned off? robin
2011-03-20 10:42             ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-03-15  6:28 ` Stephen Leake
2011-03-15 17:32   ` Keith Thompson
2011-03-15 17:40     ` KK6GM
2011-03-15 19:44     ` Robert A Duff
2011-03-15 19:12   ` Florian Weimer
2011-03-15 19:45     ` KK6GM
2011-03-15 19:57     ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-03-20 13:00       ` Florian Weimer
2011-03-20 20:13         ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-03-15 19:42   ` John B. Matthews
2011-03-17 11:44   ` robin
2011-03-17 18:37     ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-03-17 23:04       ` How would Ariane 5 have behaved if overflow checking were notturned off? robin
2011-03-18 15:55         ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-03-17 21:37     ` How would Ariane 5 have behaved if overflow checking were not turned off? Vinzent Hoefler
2011-03-16 10:33 ` robin
2011-03-16 15:08   ` Simon Wright
2011-03-17 12:39     ` robin
2011-03-17 13:41       ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-03-17 23:34         ` How would Ariane 5 have behaved if overflow checking were notturned off? robin
2011-03-18 12:57           ` Hyman Rosen
2011-03-18 16:49             ` KK6GM
2011-03-18 17:18               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-03-19 17:55                 ` Keith Thompson
2011-03-20 18:39                   ` Robert A Duff
2011-03-17 18:43       ` Vinzent Hoefler [this message]
2011-03-17 20:58       ` How would Ariane 5 have behaved if overflow checking were not turned off? Simon Wright
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