Re: Air traffic control system in Java

["Vinzent Hoefler" <0439279208b62c95f1880bf0f8776eeb@t-domaingrabbing.de>]

Shark8 wrote:

> On Mar 4, 10:15 pm, "Vinzent Hoefler"
> <0439279208b62c95f1880bf0f8776...@t-domaingrabbing.de> wrote:
>
> Interesting you should mention Oberon; I just installed it into a VM
> to play with.
> {VirtualPC is free now, so if you're using Windows there is little
> disincentive
> to throwing odd/interesting OSes into a VM.}

I'm happy user of VirtualBox sind a couple of major versions. ;)

>> Considering what I regularly read in the appropriate newsgroups, even a big
>> library like the VCL of Delphi is not nearly enough to satisfy its users,
>> there are a lot of add-ons, third party tools and hacks to get what they
>> want (and Delphi is even just Windows-only, so we're not even talking problems
>> of cross-platform GUI).
>
> Delphi's VCL is actually one of the best GUI-builders I've seen...
> there was
> also the Kylix port of the VCL to the Linux environs which fizzled
> out, but
> iy *WAS* there.

Well, FreePascal has Lazarus, that's probably more cross-platform. :)
Yet, it doesn't drive a lot of users to use it (at least there complaining
about the same as the Ada community), so it doesn't seem to be a major
gain.

> Given that the VCL is basically an object-oriented wrapper of the
> Windows [graphics] API

And still, a lot of regular users are /not/ satisfied with what the VCL
offers. And it's already huge (thus, nothing I would put in a standards
document).

> it seems to me that Ada *could* be used similarly and
> in an
> even better manner: an object-oriented hierarchy-among-specifications
> which
> have their bodies chosen as per the platform being developed.

Yes, it is surely *possible*. But it also means that you probably have to
trade look-and-feel against the portability. And that means, users of
your Ada-GUI will complain about the differences, will not use it or
"patch" it according to their specific needs.

IMO, there's no point in standardizing such a beast, if you can't get it
right.

After all, there's GtkAda, that's probably as cross-platform as it will
ever get and yet it doesn't convince users to use Ada.

(Honestly, I don't know why someone would want to use Java for that,
Java doesn't even have real callbacks, but well ...)

>> So if someone expects such a beast can be standardized at all, I'd call him
>> overly optimistic at least.
>
> OpenGL and PotScript/PDF are standard and [true] cross-platform, no?
> Couldn't a standard GUI therefore be built upon them?

I seriously doubt that there are any OpenGL implementation or
Postscript-interpreters for systems like VxWorks or Integrity. ;)

Wasn't there a standard GUI description language (based on XML?) a couple
of years ago? What happened to it?

And as mentioned above. To put something like that into a language standard,
you have to keep minimalistic (remember that the vendors need to implement
it and cost of implementation is also an issue in terms of standardization).
But being minimalistic also means, that nobody will use it due to lack of
(necessary) features.

IME, if a minimalistic GUI is needed, embed a webserver into your application
and let it start up the browser. This served me well so far. Virtually everybody
knows how to use a browser, and in the days of Web 2.0 such an approach is
probably even "en vogue".


Vinzent.

-- 
A C program is like a fast dance on a newly waxed dance floor by people carrying
razors.
   --  Waldi Ravens