From: "Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)" <yannick_duchene@yahoo.fr>
Subject: Re: AWS Coding Styles (and about boring plain-linear text files in the end)
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2011 22:43:33 +0100
Date: 2011-01-19T22:43:33+01:00 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <op.vpkryvxrule2fv@garhos> (raw)
In-Reply-To: ih6trb$k01$1@news.eternal-september.org
Le Wed, 19 Jan 2011 15:52:14 +0100, J-P. Rosen <rosen@adalog.fr> a écrit:
> What I meant is that the sentences in journal are quite predictable, and
> if you miss some information, you can trust that the brain will
> reconstruct it correctly. Moreover, it is optimized for speed of reading.
>
> Reading a program should be optimized for accuracy of understanding, and
> making sure that no misinterpretation can happen. I claim these are
> different goals.
To confirm this, and also in reply to Dmitry. There are at least two
differences in formal language vs natural language.
Dmitry,
The natural language is known to be redundant and these redundancies vary.
Ex, you have in french, a tiny word meaning the plural, “les”, and when it
is associated to a word, this peer also get another mark, meaning the
plural too, “s” (to keep it simple). If ever a word got the “s” while it
is not associated to “les”, or is associated to “les” while it does not
hold the “s”, you may say, “ouch, there must be an error here”. If the
latter occurs, how could you say if the word is plural or not ? You may
think natural language dos not help a lot here and semantic of Ada is far
above… humm, not sure: at least the natural language gave you an
opportunity to feel there is an error. This is to what the redundancy
about the plural is often useful to (and many other strange things behave
the same way). The reader or the audience may also be able to correct
using some other inference to guess what the status of the word was
intended to be.
The second example is about to be implicit. There is a more or less
constant context in natural language, which is a consequence of a more or
less constant environment I suppose (our expression in our language is in
reference to our environment, for some numerous parts). This implicit
helps to feel possible holes the speech/text may contains. Well, this is
not real a formal way of doing things, and to help, many checks (among
ones the one exposed above) are involved.
With a language like Ada (or Lisp, or Python or whatever), while very
nice, none of the above applies: an error is an error and there is nothing
which gonna make it somewhat obvious to your eyes. Of course, there are
spelling mistakes in identifiers, but a statically checked language like
Ada already do this job for you at compile time. The error you have to
deal with are more pernicious and deals with consequences (this is not the
same kind of interpretation as a natural language which is more
declarative… but I do not mean it is declarative the same way declarative
programing languages are).
In short: not self-check opportunity, no implicit and different kind of
consequences in the end.
Reading Ada source and reading a news-paper is indeed like comparing
Halley's Comet and the Earth.
Now, what checks did you applied while reading me ? What implicit truths
did you had in mind for you inferences and understanding ? And above all,
how did you interpreted this in the whole ? You see ? ;) Would be funny to
see, but we may even never ever see. If you did not interpreted this the
way I wanted to mean it, you will not crash, I will not crash, and we will
probably recover (may not be consciously), re-sync in many ways, and many
other funny behaviors. That's just a third example of the difference
between this kind of natural language and formal languages.
Just see how natural language text are laid out: not the same at all, its
mainly flow like (and in the area of text layout, we indeed talk about
“flow”). This layout difference is the expression of different needs and
requirements to read.
(hope this was meaningful enough)
--
Si les chats miaulent et font autant de vocalises bizarres, c’est pas pour
les chiens.
“I am fluent in ASCII” [Warren 2010]
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2011-01-19 21:43 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 96+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2011-01-17 5:07 AWS Coding Styles (and about boring plain-linear text files in the end) Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-01-17 5:18 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-01-21 4:06 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-01-17 6:43 ` Shark8
2011-01-17 10:22 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-01-17 10:23 ` pascal.obry
2011-01-17 10:49 ` Simon Wright
2011-01-17 10:54 ` pascal.obry
2011-01-18 19:07 ` Florian Weimer
2011-01-18 19:47 ` Adam Beneschan
2011-01-18 20:44 ` Florian Weimer
2011-01-18 21:03 ` Adam Beneschan
2011-01-18 22:16 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-01-19 6:58 ` Simon Wright
2011-01-19 9:15 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-01-19 20:16 ` Simon Wright
2011-01-19 22:42 ` Peter C. Chapin
2011-01-19 22:21 ` Florian Weimer
2011-01-20 1:52 ` Stephen Leake
2011-01-18 20:23 ` Pascal Obry
2011-01-18 21:39 ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-01-18 22:13 ` Randy Brukardt
2011-01-19 0:47 ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-01-19 1:06 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-01-19 7:00 ` J-P. Rosen
2011-01-19 8:53 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-01-19 10:04 ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-01-19 11:42 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-01-19 13:17 ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-01-19 21:56 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-01-19 23:34 ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-03-16 18:28 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-03-16 20:13 ` Shark8
2011-03-16 21:51 ` Randy Brukardt
2011-03-16 22:01 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-03-19 1:47 ` Randy Brukardt
2011-03-16 19:59 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-01-18 22:20 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-01-18 22:11 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-05-25 20:43 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-01-17 13:47 ` Bill Findlay
2011-01-17 14:02 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-01-17 21:12 ` Simon Wright
2011-01-18 8:03 ` Stephen Leake
2011-01-18 20:41 ` Simon Wright
2011-01-18 0:45 ` Adam Beneschan
2011-01-18 1:40 ` Bill Findlay
2011-01-19 11:12 ` Stephen Leake
2011-01-18 6:07 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-01-18 6:07 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-01-18 8:04 ` Stephen Leake
2011-01-18 9:11 ` pascal.obry
2011-01-19 11:17 ` Stephen Leake
2011-01-19 11:53 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-01-18 8:22 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-01-18 8:50 ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-01-18 14:20 ` sjw
2011-01-18 15:41 ` Adam Beneschan
2011-01-18 0:58 ` Adam Beneschan
2011-01-18 1:43 ` Bill Findlay
2011-01-18 6:10 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-01-18 7:02 ` Pascal Obry
2011-01-18 7:14 ` Thomas Løcke
2011-01-18 7:26 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-01-18 12:42 ` Peter C. Chapin
2011-01-18 21:09 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-01-18 22:01 ` Randy Brukardt
2011-01-18 22:35 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-01-18 23:37 ` tmoran
2011-01-20 2:14 ` Randy Brukardt
2011-01-18 8:06 ` Stephen Leake
2011-01-18 8:54 ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-01-18 15:45 ` Adam Beneschan
2011-01-18 22:03 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-01-19 7:19 ` J-P. Rosen
2011-01-19 9:07 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-01-19 13:31 ` J-P. Rosen
2011-01-20 1:53 ` Stephen Leake
2011-01-19 9:13 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-01-19 9:28 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-01-19 10:04 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-01-19 12:16 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-01-24 5:13 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-01-24 8:29 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-01-19 13:39 ` J-P. Rosen
2011-01-19 14:20 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-01-19 14:52 ` J-P. Rosen
2011-01-19 15:25 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-01-19 21:43 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57) [this message]
2011-01-19 22:20 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-01-19 21:47 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-01-21 19:17 ` Robert Matthews
2011-01-21 19:54 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-01-19 18:02 ` Jeffrey Carter
2011-01-19 11:21 ` Stephen Leake
2011-01-19 13:32 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
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