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From: "Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)" <yannick_duchene@yahoo.fr>
Subject: Re: Silly and stupid post-condition or not ?
Date: Sat, 04 Feb 2012 07:27:00 +0100
Date: 2012-02-04T07:27:00+01:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <op.v845jan1ule2fv@douda-yannick> (raw)
In-Reply-To: jgi7uq$ph8$1@munin.nbi.dk

Le Sat, 04 Feb 2012 04:16:34 +0100, Randy Brukardt <randy@rrsoftware.com>  
a écrit:
> But to claim that just because it's practically impossible to describe  
> the complete behavior of real systems does not mean that there is no  
> benefit to describing the easy part. And that is exactly what you are  
> arguing -- and it should be clear to any Ada programmer that that is a  
> fallicy.
At least an Ada practice was always there, even far prior it integrated  
DbC™: express as much validity constraints as you can with the type system.

The type system cannot express every constraint (and that's clear to  
everyone), but it still useful. The same with DbC. Moreover, with DbC, you  
may indeed have to care about efficiency. Anyway, if one want very strict  
proof and cases coverage, there are other tools or languages: SPARK & Cie.  
There is no way to impose such things to every application and every Ada  
source author. On the opposite, this would even prevent authors from  
keeping Ada in mind as an option.

98% is not 100%, but better what you can really and practically get than  
any promise you will not ever access to, and which will turn a something  
far below 98% or to simply nothing.

Time to recall safety and proof level is not to be the same for every Ada  
applications, and to recall this level is to be defined by the  
application's specifications. No need to design an application outside of  
its specifications (except as a game, challenge or other experiments).

-- 
“Syntactic sugar causes cancer of the semi-colons.” [1]
“Structured Programming supports the law of the excluded muddle.” [1]
[1]: Epigrams on Programming — Alan J. — P. Yale University



  reply	other threads:[~2012-02-04  6:27 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 84+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2012-01-30 23:11 Silly and stupid post‑condition or not ? Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2012-01-31  6:47 ` J-P. Rosen
2012-01-31 18:48   ` Jeffrey Carter
2012-01-31 22:02     ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2012-01-31  8:54 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-01-31  9:35   ` Georg Bauhaus
2012-01-31 10:22     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-01-31 12:33       ` Georg Bauhaus
2012-01-31 13:52         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-01-31 15:34           ` Georg Bauhaus
2012-01-31 16:24             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-01-31 19:44               ` Georg Bauhaus
2012-02-01  8:41                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-02-01 10:37                   ` stefan-lucks
2012-02-01 10:51                     ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2012-02-01 13:49                     ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2012-02-01 13:49                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-02-01 16:37                       ` stefan-lucks
2012-02-02  1:50                         ` Silly and stupid post�?'condition " Randy Brukardt
2012-02-02  1:56                           ` Silly and stupid postâ?'condition or not ? Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2012-02-03  2:45                             ` Silly and stupid post�?'condition or not ? Randy Brukardt
2012-02-02  8:25                         ` Silly and stupid post‑condition " Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-02-02  9:01                           ` stefan-lucks
2012-02-02  9:18                           ` stefan-lucks
2012-02-02 10:04                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-01-31 22:08         ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2012-01-31 17:28 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-01-31 22:12   ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2012-02-01  8:49     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-02-01  8:36 ` Stephen Leake
2012-02-01 16:30   ` Silly and stupid post-condition " Adam Beneschan
2012-02-02  9:40     ` Stephen Leake
2012-02-02 13:20       ` Georg Bauhaus
2012-02-02 13:35         ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2012-02-03  3:13       ` Randy Brukardt
2012-02-03  3:33         ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2012-02-03  8:12         ` Simon Wright
2012-02-07  2:29           ` BrianG
2012-02-07 10:43             ` Simon Wright
2012-02-08  2:25               ` BrianG
2012-02-07 21:15             ` Robert A Duff
2012-02-03  9:11         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-02-04  3:27           ` Randy Brukardt
2012-02-04 10:15             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-02-03 12:25         ` Phil Thornley
2012-02-04  9:30         ` Phil Thornley
2012-02-04 12:02         ` Phil Thornley
2012-02-05  6:18           ` Randy Brukardt
2012-02-05 10:23             ` Phil Thornley
2012-02-05 10:55               ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2012-02-05 15:03               ` Robert A Duff
2012-02-05 18:04                 ` Phil Thornley
2012-02-05 21:27                   ` Robert A Duff
2012-02-05 23:09                     ` Phil Thornley
2012-02-07  2:05               ` Randy Brukardt
2012-02-07  9:38                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-02-05 11:31             ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2012-02-05 14:50             ` Robert A Duff
2012-02-07  2:11               ` Randy Brukardt
2012-02-07  2:34             ` BrianG
2012-02-07  4:38               ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2012-02-09  3:10               ` Randy Brukardt
2012-02-04 23:07         ` Stephen Leake
2012-02-05  2:49           ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2012-02-05  6:29           ` Randy Brukardt
2012-02-05 11:40             ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2012-02-07  1:36               ` Randy Brukardt
2012-02-05 15:16             ` Robert A Duff
2012-02-06  4:56               ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2012-02-06 14:39                 ` Robert A Duff
2012-02-06 16:12                   ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2012-02-07  1:46               ` Randy Brukardt
2012-02-07 17:24                 ` Robert A Duff
2012-02-03  6:26       ` J-P. Rosen
2012-02-03  9:12         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-02-03  9:48           ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2012-02-03 11:09             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-02-03 11:40               ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2012-02-03 13:18                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-02-03 14:14                   ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2012-02-03 14:45                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-02-04  3:16           ` Randy Brukardt
2012-02-04  6:27             ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57) [this message]
2012-02-04 10:47             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
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