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From: <adaworks@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: How come Ada isn't more popular?
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 16:49:24 GMT
Date: 2007-01-23T16:49:24+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <o0rth.3924$O02.467@newssvr11.news.prodigy.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: uy7nucb8e.fsf@stephe-leake.org


"Stephen Leake" <stephen_leake@stephe-leake.org> wrote in message 
news:uy7nucb8e.fsf@stephe-leake.org...
>
> Or, in managers, "everyone else is using C, so it must be the best
> language". When I point out that far more programs are written in
> Visual Basic, or Excel, they look very puzzled :).
>
One of the long-forgotten success stories in Ada was at Xerox, another
company that has a history of grabbing defeat from the jaws of victory.

A team of developers at Xerox decided to use Ada for the software on
a new Xerox copier.   The project was a resounding success and every
team member was enthusiastic about the potential for software on other
Xerox projects.   There were analyses showing how Ada was more
cost-effective than C or other alternatives.  It looked as if Ada might
have found its niche in commercial software development.

Not so.  In spite of all the evidence in support of Ada, some idiot
higher up in management decreed that all software must be written
in C.   He had no understanding of Ada.  All he knew was that it
was a DoD language and he wanted no part of it.

This story has repeated itself over and over.  As noted, a lot of people
are reluctant to use a language designed for "killing and maiming."  It
is silly, of course, but programming aptitude has never been a good
predictor for sensible decision-making.

There is a shortage of Ada programmers, so Lockheed-Martin made
the decision to use C++ on some of our major weapon systems. Not
a particularly wide decision.    They have discovered that, for the software
to be dependable, they must cripple C++ to the point where it is being
used as a "better C" and they have lost all the alleged benefits of C++
except one:  the larger population of university-trained C++ programmers.

Academia has been no better.  As long as the DoD funded projects related
to Ada, professors were happy to take the money.  Once the funding vanished,
those professors redirected their efforts to projects using newer whiz-bang
languages that looked good when they submitted papers for publication.

I recently had the opportunity to teach a beginning class in Java.  What I
discovered is that Java is not type safe, and includes a lot more opportunities
for programming errors than Ada.   It is not any better designed than Ada,
but it does have a lot of libraries.  Most important, it is easier to get a 
paper
published if it mentions Java than if it mentions Ada.  A few years ago I was
invited to submit a paper to a conference by the conference chairperson.  I
was told not to mention Ada.

For a variety of reasons, there is a lot of ignorance and bias regarding Ada and
it will not be easy to overcome.   One bright spot is that SPARK has achieved
a high level of respectability and SPARK is an Ada-based environment.

Richard Riehle





  reply	other threads:[~2007-01-23 16:49 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 397+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2007-01-23  5:53 How come Ada isn't more popular? artifact.one
2007-01-23  6:37 ` adaworks
2007-01-23  6:50   ` artifact.one
2007-01-23 14:24   ` Arthur Evans Jr
2007-01-23 20:11     ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-23 21:14       ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-23 15:23   ` Ed Falis
2007-01-23 20:09   ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-24  8:50     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-01-24 20:23       ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-24 11:06     ` gautier_niouzes
2007-01-24 19:25       ` tmoran
2007-01-25  4:46         ` Gautier
2007-01-25  9:29           ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-27 16:59             ` Stephen Leake
2007-01-27 20:40               ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-27 21:19                 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-28  8:44                   ` Ray Blaak
2007-01-29  8:56                 ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-01-29 14:21                   ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-31  9:23                     ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-01-31 10:24                       ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-02  8:42                         ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-02-02  9:32                           ` Alex R. Mosteo
2007-02-02 11:04                             ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-02-02 13:57                           ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-03  9:44                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-03 14:51                               ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-04 17:55                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-04 20:18                                   ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-04 21:29                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-04 22:33                                       ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-05  9:20                                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-05 12:16                                           ` Harald Korneliussen
2007-02-05 14:06                                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-05 13:53                                           ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-05  9:59                             ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-02-05 13:43                               ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-06  9:15                                 ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-02-06 11:45                                   ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-06 14:16                                     ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-02-06 15:44                                       ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-06 17:40                                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-07  8:55                                         ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-02-07  9:30                                           ` GC in Ada Martin Krischik
2007-02-07 11:08                                             ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-07 11:15                                             ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-02-07 11:53                                               ` Martin Krischik
2007-02-07 12:22                                                 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-08  7:26                                                   ` Martin Krischik
2007-02-08  9:33                                                     ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-09 13:37                                                       ` Martin Krischik
2007-02-09 13:47                                                       ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-02-09 15:29                                                         ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-02-09 20:52                                                           ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-02-08  7:48                                                 ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-02-08  8:20                                                   ` Martin Krischik
2007-02-08  8:43                                                   ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-09 14:20                                                     ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-02-09 16:23                                                       ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-12  8:52                                                         ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-02-12 12:56                                                           ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-08 18:24                                                   ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-02-09  8:57                                                     ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2007-02-09 12:57                                                       ` Robert A Duff
2007-02-09 14:44                                                         ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2007-02-10 13:38                                                           ` Robert A Duff
2007-02-12  8:47                                                             ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2007-02-12 15:31                                                               ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-02-09 18:35                                                       ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-02-10 19:01                                                         ` Martin Krischik
2007-02-11 15:22                                                         ` Pascal Obry
2007-02-11 20:30                                                           ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-02-13 18:47                                                             ` Pascal Obry
2007-02-13 23:08                                                               ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-02-14 11:13                                                                 ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2007-02-14 16:29                                                                   ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-02-14 19:47                                                                 ` Robert A Duff
2007-02-14 11:10                                                               ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2007-02-14 16:29                                                                 ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-02-15  8:39                                                                   ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2007-02-15 17:14                                                                     ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-02-08 18:38                                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-09  7:58                                                   ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-02-09 10:07                                                   ` Martin Krischik
2007-02-09 14:10                                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-07 12:19                                               ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-08  7:54                                                 ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-02-08  9:49                                                   ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-07 10:10                                           ` How come Ada isn't more popular? Georg Bauhaus
2007-02-07 10:56                                           ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-07 22:58                                             ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-02-08  9:04                                             ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-02-08 10:01                                               ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-06 17:47                                       ` Ray Blaak
2007-02-06 18:05                                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-06 18:28                                           ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-07  7:54                                           ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-02-07  9:42                                             ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-08  8:10                                               ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-02-08 18:14                                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-09  8:17                                               ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-02-09 14:02                                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-09 18:08                                                   ` Ray Blaak
2007-02-09 18:43                                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-09 18:57                                                       ` Ray Blaak
2007-02-09 18:03                                                 ` Ray Blaak
2007-02-09 18:47                                                   ` Randy Brukardt
2007-02-09 19:02                                                     ` Ray Blaak
2007-02-09 19:35                                                       ` Randy Brukardt
2007-02-09 19:52                                                         ` Ray Blaak
2007-02-12  7:20                                                           ` Harald Korneliussen
2007-02-12 14:12                                                             ` Robert A Duff
2007-02-09 22:11                                                         ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-09 22:05                                                     ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-10  1:31                                                       ` Randy Brukardt
2007-02-10  2:18                                                         ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-05 19:05                               ` Ray Blaak
2007-02-09  8:01                           ` adaworks
2007-02-09  9:07                             ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2007-02-09 10:36                               ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-02-09 12:50                                 ` Robert A Duff
2007-02-09 14:02                                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-10 18:21                                     ` adaworks
2007-02-10 18:41                                       ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-10 20:29                                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-09 14:12                                   ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-02-09 19:41                                     ` Randy Brukardt
2007-02-12  9:07                                       ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-02-12 20:56                                         ` Randy Brukardt
2007-02-13  9:02                                           ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-02-14 10:12                                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-09  9:21                             ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-25 21:42           ` Randy Brukardt
2007-01-28 19:32             ` Gautier
2007-01-30 19:41               ` tmoran
2007-01-25 22:21           ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-25 11:31   ` Ali Bendriss
2007-01-27  5:12     ` Charles D Hixson
2007-01-27  9:52       ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-27 22:01         ` Charles D Hixson
2007-01-27 23:24           ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-28  9:14             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-01-28 15:06               ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-29 14:37                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-01-29 15:50                   ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-30 19:58                     ` Robert A Duff
2007-01-30 21:52                       ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-31 22:49                         ` Robert A Duff
2007-01-31 23:07                           ` (see below)
2007-01-31 23:18                             ` Robert A Duff
2007-01-31 23:36                               ` (see below)
2007-02-01  7:57                           ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-31 17:49                       ` Ed Falis
2007-01-31 22:53                         ` Robert A Duff
2007-01-31 10:55                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-01-31 15:16                       ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-01 14:22                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-01 15:18                           ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-01 16:26                           ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-02-01 17:36                             ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-01 20:53                               ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-02-01 21:57                                 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-01 22:03                                 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-01 23:40                                 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-03 16:54                                   ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-02-03 18:39                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-03 20:06                                     ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-05  0:06                                       ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-05 13:58                                         ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-02-05 14:23                                           ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-02  7:17                                 ` Harald Korneliussen
2007-02-05  0:39                               ` Robert A Duff
2007-02-05  1:00                                 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-02  9:20                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-02 12:34                               ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-03  9:45                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-03 14:16                                   ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-04 19:33                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-04 20:44                                       ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-04 23:00                                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-04 23:21                                           ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-02 14:27                               ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-02-02 16:07                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-01 19:31                           ` Ray Blaak
2007-02-01 22:54                             ` Randy Brukardt
2007-02-02  1:37                               ` in defense of GC (was Re: How come Ada isn't more popular?) Ray Blaak
2007-02-02  9:35                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-02 12:44                                   ` in defense of GC Markus E Leypold
2007-02-03 10:13                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-03 14:28                                       ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-04 18:38                                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-04 20:24                                           ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-04 21:57                                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-04 22:47                                               ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-04 23:08                                                 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-05 15:57                                                   ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-05  8:47                                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-05 14:03                                                   ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-05  0:23                                         ` Robert A Duff
2007-02-05  0:55                                           ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-06  0:01                                             ` Robert A Duff
2007-02-06  1:06                                               ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-05  1:00                                           ` Ray Blaak
2007-02-05  1:19                                             ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-06  8:32                                               ` Ray Blaak
2007-02-06 11:07                                                 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-06 18:01                                                   ` Ray Blaak
2007-02-06 18:25                                                     ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-06 19:42                                                     ` Ray Blaak
2007-02-06  0:18                                             ` Robert A Duff
2007-02-06  0:59                                               ` Ray Blaak
2007-02-06  1:07                                               ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-02 18:15                                   ` in defense of GC (was Re: How come Ada isn't more popular?) Ray Blaak
2007-02-02 19:35                                     ` Adam Beneschan
2007-02-02 20:04                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-02 22:40                                       ` Ray Blaak
2007-02-03 10:00                                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-03 14:30                                           ` in defense of GC Markus E Leypold
2007-02-02 12:36                                 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-02 21:50                                 ` in defense of GC (was Re: How come Ada isn't more popular?) Gautier
2007-02-04  8:19                                   ` Ray Blaak
2007-02-04 17:36                                     ` Hyman Rosen
2007-02-04 21:21                                       ` Ray Blaak
2007-02-05  1:12                                 ` Robert A Duff
2007-02-05  9:06                                   ` Ray Blaak
2007-02-06  0:28                                     ` in defense of GC Robert A Duff
2007-02-06  8:24                                       ` Ray Blaak
2007-02-06 11:50                                         ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-07  7:44                                           ` Ray Blaak
2007-02-07  8:54                                             ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-02-07 11:19                                               ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-07 23:32                                                 ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-02-08  8:49                                                   ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-09 14:09                                                     ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-02-09 16:17                                                       ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-09 20:51                                                         ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-02-09 22:19                                                           ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-08  9:24                                                   ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-09 15:08                                                     ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-02-07 19:01                                               ` Ray Blaak
2007-02-07 11:17                                             ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-29 16:23                 ` How come Ada isn't more popular? Georg Bauhaus
2007-01-29 16:56                   ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-29 23:56       ` Randy Brukardt
2007-01-23  6:58 ` AW: " Grein, Christoph (Fa. ESG)
2007-01-23 10:31   ` Talulah
2007-01-23 13:48     ` Anders Wirzenius
2007-01-23 20:17     ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-23 20:43       ` Pascal Obry
2007-01-24  9:42       ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-01-24 20:48         ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-23 10:02 ` Stephen Leake
2007-01-23 16:49   ` adaworks [this message]
2007-01-23 17:40     ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-24 12:51       ` Peter Hermann
2007-01-24 14:42         ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-23 20:10   ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-23 22:37     ` Frank J. Lhota
2007-01-24  7:27       ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-24  9:50         ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-01-24 20:25           ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-24 21:34             ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-25  9:23               ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-26  7:59               ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-01-26 20:05                 ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-26 22:43                   ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-23 21:19   ` Björn Persson
2007-01-23 10:38 ` Alex R. Mosteo
2007-01-23 12:58   ` gautier_niouzes
2007-01-23 21:56   ` Dr. Adrian Wrigley
2007-01-24 13:52     ` Alex R. Mosteo
2007-01-24 19:25     ` tmoran
2007-01-24 19:38     ` artifact.one
2007-01-26  2:50     ` Keith Thompson
2007-01-26  5:29     ` Gautier
2007-01-27  5:22     ` Charles D Hixson
2007-01-23 19:16 ` Tero Koskinen
2007-01-23 21:12   ` Ludovic Brenta
2007-01-24  9:59     ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-01-24 18:22       ` Yves Bailly
2007-01-24 19:18       ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-25  8:37         ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-01-25  9:40           ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-26  8:52             ` Ludovic Brenta
2007-01-26 11:40               ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-27 16:56             ` Stephen Leake
2007-01-27 19:58               ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-28 17:12                 ` Ed Falis
2007-01-28 18:38                   ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-25 10:13           ` Harald Korneliussen
2007-01-25 12:54             ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-26  7:03               ` Harald Korneliussen
2007-01-25 13:08             ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-25 22:36             ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-25 23:26               ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-26  4:23                 ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-26 11:35                   ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-26 20:22                     ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-26 23:04                       ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-27 19:57                         ` Frank J. Lhota
2007-01-28 20:43                         ` adaworks
2007-01-28 22:57                           ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-29  1:04                           ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-28 20:32                   ` adaworks
2007-01-28 21:12                     ` Cesar Rabak
2007-01-28 22:43                       ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-29 22:40                         ` Cesar Rabak
2007-01-30  9:31                           ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-30 16:19                           ` adaworks
2007-01-30 21:05                             ` Jeffrey Creem
2007-01-31  7:59                               ` AW: " Grein, Christoph (Fa. ESG)
2007-02-03 16:33                                 ` Martin Krischik
2007-01-28 22:38                     ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-29 16:16                       ` adaworks
2007-01-29 16:35                         ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-29  1:02                     ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-30  0:21                       ` Randy Brukardt
2007-01-26  7:21                 ` Harald Korneliussen
2007-01-26  7:16               ` Harald Korneliussen
2007-01-27  5:30             ` Charles D Hixson
2007-01-24 20:10   ` Cesar Rabak
2007-01-23 20:02 ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-24  7:18   ` adaworks
2007-01-24 14:19   ` Alex R. Mosteo
2007-01-24 15:27     ` Poll on background of Ada people (was: How come Ada isn't more po) Larry Kilgallen
2007-01-23 21:36 ` How come Ada isn't more popular? kevin  cline
2007-01-23 22:18   ` Martin Dowie
2007-01-24  4:14     ` Alexander E. Kopilovich
2007-01-24  7:30       ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-24 20:15         ` Alexander E. Kopilovich
2007-01-25 22:16           ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-25 23:32             ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-26  8:50               ` AW: " Grein, Christoph (Fa. ESG)
2007-01-26 11:52                 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-29  6:16                   ` AW: " Grein, Christoph (Fa. ESG)
2007-01-29 14:31                     ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-26  8:56               ` Ludovic Brenta
2007-01-26 11:49                 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-26 22:05             ` Alexander E. Kopilovich
2007-01-24  7:31     ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-24  7:42     ` kevin  cline
2007-01-24  8:07       ` Ludovic Brenta
2007-01-24 12:12         ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-24 12:48           ` Ludovic Brenta
2007-01-24 14:49             ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-24 13:40           ` Pascal Obry
2007-01-24 14:50             ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-24 17:22               ` Pascal Obry
2007-01-24 17:56                 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-24 18:09                   ` Pascal Obry
2007-01-24 19:37                     ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-24 19:52                       ` Pascal Obry
2007-01-24 21:31                         ` Markus E Leypold
2007-03-19  2:09                           ` adaworks
2007-01-25  7:52                     ` Harald Korneliussen
2007-01-24 16:25         ` Adam Beneschan
2007-01-24 17:03           ` Niklas Holsti
2007-01-25 15:37           ` Bob Spooner
2007-02-06  9:54         ` Dave Thompson
2007-02-06 11:01           ` Ludovic Brenta
2007-02-26  5:47             ` Dave Thompson
2007-01-24 16:14       ` adaworks
2007-01-25  0:22         ` kevin  cline
2007-01-25  6:04           ` adaworks
2007-01-25 10:37             ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-01-25 23:36               ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-25 10:42           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-01-25  8:27         ` Harald Korneliussen
2007-01-25  4:50       ` Alexander E. Kopilovich
2007-01-27  5:43       ` Charles D Hixson
2007-01-27  8:38         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-01-28 12:11           ` Michael Bode
2007-01-28 15:20             ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-29  9:44               ` Martin Krischik
2007-01-27 13:06         ` Gautier
2007-01-27 16:28           ` Ludovic Brenta
2007-01-28  0:55           ` Charles D Hixson
2007-01-28  1:18             ` Ludovic Brenta
2007-01-28 17:06             ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-28 21:11             ` adaworks
2007-01-24 19:33   ` Arthur Evans Jr
     [not found]     ` <egYth.15026$w91.10597@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
2007-01-25 22:34       ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-25 22:55         ` Robert A Duff
2007-01-26 19:59           ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-27  3:54         ` Randy Brukardt
2007-01-24  0:12 ` JPWoodruff
2007-01-24 10:32   ` gautier_niouzes
2007-01-25  1:01   ` Alexander E. Kopilovich
2007-01-26  5:01     ` JPWoodruff
2007-03-05  2:19 ` Brian May
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2007-02-10  4:18 Randy Brukardt
2007-02-10  9:15 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-10 13:22   ` Robert A Duff
2007-02-10 15:54     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-12 14:23       ` Robert A Duff
2007-02-12 15:49         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
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