From: "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de>
Subject: Re: Why no socket package in the standard ?
Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 16:59:52 +0200
Date: 2011-05-24T16:59:52+02:00 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <n3mag6awan4j$.1mjwql1dnpgfg.dlg@40tude.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 4ddbc090$0$6582$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net
On Tue, 24 May 2011 16:28:32 +0200, Georg Bauhaus wrote:
> On 24.05.11 14:53, Dmitry A. Kazakov wrote:
>>
>> Communication between programs
>> is distribution, the annex E.
>
> Yes. If the endpoints of communication are Ada partitions.
> Otherwise ...?
Non-Ada programs = non-programs. No offence to other languages meant, it is
just so that we cannot communicate them at this height of abstraction
level.
>> Sockets are a about communication to the
>> hardware, even if the other side is actually a program.
>
> From a programmer perspective, sockets may well be about
> how to send a String value to some "Port" on some
> "machine" identifiable via DNS.
That is not Ada's programmer perspective. A value has the type. This type
is an Ada type, otherwise we are back to the hardware level of bits and
bytes.
> No hardware in sight from this viewpoint.
See above.
>>> - Is sockets the right approach? Consider Erlang!
>>
>> An approach to what?
>
> A more general approach to sending data around.
Data are meaningless (We had this discussion before). Meaningful is
distribution and that is the annex E.
> Why insist on sockets, then?
Because sockets is the most widely used transport.
>> Blurring transport and application level issues does not help.
>
> Yes. But at least we might try to learn, for the purpose of standardization,
> what a typical transport level issue is versus what an application level issue
> is---not so much about how solutions are built around sockets whenever
> these happen to be available. Standards work seems a good opportunity
> to isolate, in abstract terms, what a transport level issue is.
I don't see how standards from the areas, where mentioned by you CAN is
applied, could help.
> If these issues are central to Ada programming, and future-proof,
> there might be funding for isolating a few requirements. Then start
> from these requirements.
From CAN Open, ASAP, ASAM etc? Are you kidding?
> Or, if sockets are as important as, say, timers, or windows---if they
> are important, then enlighten industry (or govt.) that they have the power
> to ask for compiler-independent packages.
Sockets are more or less realistic to support at the standard's level,
though very difficult.
>>> I doubt that the best answer to these questions can
>>> be summed up by saying, "Mirror Posix sockets!".
>>
>> What was the question? (:-))
>
> The original question was, "Why no socket package in the standard?".
>
> Let me rephrase it: "Why no ISO/IEC 14519:2001 package in the standard?"
I cannot say. I do not care much about POSIX, maybe, others do not either.
Why is it relevant to sockets?
--
Regards,
Dmitry A. Kazakov
http://www.dmitry-kazakov.de
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2011-05-24 14:59 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 121+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2011-05-24 1:22 Why no socket package in the standard ? Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-05-24 1:39 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-05-24 6:11 ` tmoran
2011-05-24 17:23 ` Pascal Obry
2011-05-24 19:10 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-05-25 15:12 ` Tero Koskinen
2011-05-25 18:43 ` Tero Koskinen
2011-05-25 19:08 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-05-24 6:24 ` georg bauhaus
2011-05-24 7:07 ` Maciej Sobczak
2011-05-24 7:19 ` Thomas Løcke
2011-05-24 7:35 ` Ludovic Brenta
2011-05-24 10:00 ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-05-24 12:53 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-05-24 14:28 ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-05-24 14:59 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov [this message]
2011-05-24 16:07 ` Adam Beneschan
2011-05-24 19:21 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-05-25 0:53 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-05-25 0:21 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-05-25 11:25 ` Peter C. Chapin
2011-05-24 16:10 ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-05-24 19:36 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-05-25 0:57 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-05-24 23:20 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-05-25 0:32 ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-05-25 0:49 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-05-25 7:55 ` Pascal Obry
2011-05-25 8:38 ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-05-25 8:05 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-05-25 7:52 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-05-24 19:38 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-05-24 19:54 ` Ludovic Brenta
2011-05-24 20:10 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-05-24 21:57 ` Ludovic Brenta
2011-05-24 22:35 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-05-24 23:34 ` Adam Beneschan
2011-05-24 23:40 ` Ludovic Brenta
2011-05-24 23:50 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-05-24 23:35 ` Ludovic Brenta
2011-05-25 3:07 ` Shark8
2011-05-25 4:01 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-05-25 7:39 ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-05-25 7:42 ` Ludovic Brenta
2011-05-25 10:46 ` Manuel Collado
2011-05-25 10:44 ` Peter C. Chapin
2011-05-25 15:28 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-05-25 16:36 ` Ludovic Brenta
2011-05-25 16:46 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-05-26 12:10 ` Maciej Sobczak
2011-05-26 12:42 ` Ludovic Brenta
2011-05-26 14:36 ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-05-26 15:56 ` Ludovic Brenta
2011-05-26 18:20 ` Maciej Sobczak
2011-05-26 18:29 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-05-26 20:46 ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-05-26 21:02 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-05-26 21:44 ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-05-26 21:59 ` Ludovic Brenta
2011-05-27 7:54 ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-05-27 13:12 ` Simon Wright
2011-05-27 15:43 ` Ludovic Brenta
2011-05-26 18:31 ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-05-26 19:05 ` Ludovic Brenta
2011-05-26 19:14 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-05-26 19:44 ` Ludovic Brenta
2011-05-27 2:02 ` anon
2011-05-27 11:44 ` Stephen Leake
2011-05-26 14:50 ` Adam Beneschan
2011-05-26 15:57 ` Ludovic Brenta
2011-05-27 11:46 ` Stephen Leake
2011-05-27 12:21 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-05-27 12:49 ` Make, Automake, Configure, Autocong, GPRbuild etc (was: Why no socket package in the standard ?) Ludovic Brenta
2011-05-27 13:10 ` Make, Automake, Configure, Autocong, GPRbuild etc Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-05-27 15:45 ` Ludovic Brenta
2011-05-25 7:40 ` Why no socket package in the standard ? Georg Bauhaus
2011-05-25 10:48 ` Pascal Obry
2011-05-25 7:49 ` Ludovic Brenta
2011-05-25 2:47 ` Shark8
2011-05-25 9:12 ` Thomas Løcke
2011-05-24 21:42 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-05-24 23:09 ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-05-24 23:25 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-05-25 9:06 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-05-24 23:11 ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-05-24 23:28 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-05-24 23:57 ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-05-25 0:36 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-05-24 7:25 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-05-24 21:22 ` Maciej Sobczak
2011-05-25 9:14 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-05-25 11:54 ` Maciej Sobczak
2011-05-25 12:26 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-05-24 22:04 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-05-25 9:19 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-05-24 19:17 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-05-24 19:30 ` J-P. Rosen
2011-05-24 19:49 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-05-24 22:39 ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-05-24 22:54 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-05-24 23:54 ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-05-25 0:34 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-05-25 1:20 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-05-24 12:38 ` AdaMagica
2011-05-24 15:00 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-05-24 18:29 ` anon
2011-05-24 19:08 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-06-02 2:41 ` Randy Brukardt
2011-06-02 13:55 ` Florian Weimer
2011-06-02 20:38 ` anon
2011-06-02 20:44 ` Florian Weimer
2011-06-02 21:18 ` J-P. Rosen
2011-06-04 21:35 ` anon
2011-06-05 8:39 ` J-P. Rosen
2011-06-07 1:50 ` anon
2011-06-02 21:34 ` Randy Brukardt
2011-06-05 11:06 ` Florian Weimer
2011-06-05 13:45 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-06-05 14:51 ` Florian Weimer
2011-06-05 15:30 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-06-07 2:49 ` Randy Brukardt
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