* Learning Ada83 @ 2004-09-02 14:23 Jim Gurtner 2004-09-02 14:55 ` Martin Dowie ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Jim Gurtner @ 2004-09-02 14:23 UTC (permalink / raw) I am a Computer Engineering student and am teaching myself Ada95 using the book "Ada 95: The Craft of Object-Oriented Programming" by John English. I would like to be able to get a job in the defense industry when I graduate. Should I get a book on Ada83 and study it also? Or does studying Ada95 make one automatically fluent in Ada83? Thanks in advance! Jim Gurtner (an Ada programmer wannabe!) jgurtner@mindspring.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: Learning Ada83 2004-09-02 14:23 Learning Ada83 Jim Gurtner @ 2004-09-02 14:55 ` Martin Dowie 2004-09-02 23:13 ` Nick Roberts 2004-09-06 2:42 ` Learning Ada83 Jim Gurtner 2 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Martin Dowie @ 2004-09-02 14:55 UTC (permalink / raw) Jim Gurtner wrote: > I am a Computer Engineering student and am teaching myself Ada95 using > the book "Ada 95: The Craft of Object-Oriented Programming" by John > English. > > I would like to be able to get a job in the defense industry when I > graduate. Should I get a book on Ada83 and study it also? Or does > studying Ada95 make one automatically fluent in Ada83? > > Thanks in advance! I wouldn't bother - most new defence work (at least the stuff I'm doing) is going throuh Ada95 compilers and a lot of legacy stuff is being ported. There is a 'porting guide' available (just google for it). Cheers -- Martin ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: Learning Ada83 2004-09-02 14:23 Learning Ada83 Jim Gurtner 2004-09-02 14:55 ` Martin Dowie @ 2004-09-02 23:13 ` Nick Roberts 2004-09-03 15:38 ` Kevin Cline 2004-09-06 2:42 ` Learning Ada83 Jim Gurtner 2 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread From: Nick Roberts @ 2004-09-02 23:13 UTC (permalink / raw) On 2 Sep 2004 07:23:25 -0700, Jim Gurtner <jgurtner@mindspring.com> wrote: > I am a Computer Engineering student and am teaching myself Ada95 > using the book "Ada 95: The Craft of Object-Oriented Programming" > by John English. > > I would like to be able to get a job in the defense industry when > I graduate. Should I get a book on Ada83 and study it also? Or > does studying Ada95 make one automatically fluent in Ada83? Ada 95 is nearly a true superset of Ada 83, so I think studying Ada 95 will enable you to understand Ada 83 programs well enough. I doubt that there will be much origination of new software in Ada 83 in any shop anywhere nowadays. You would probably find it instructive to look at the Ada 83 reference manual. The Ada Information Clearinghouse, at: http://www.adaic.org/ has an online copy of the ARM 83 (under the Ada Standards menu). One significant point about the difference between Adas 83 and 95 is that the really object-oriented features were added in Ada 95. However, Ada 83 did have packages and generics. It even had type derivation (but not extension, so it wasn't very useful). Actually, although learning Ada 95 is a very good idea for several reasons, you ought to be advised (if you have not already) to learn some other languages, at least to a basic level. Probably C and one assembly language (not in detail) would be useful. Probably C++ would also be helpful (again, not necessarily in detail). Possibly Java (but I'm not sure). Learning a little about some functional language would also probably be enlightening to you, as would a little knowledge of typical (relational) database systems. Best of luck! -- Nick Roberts ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: Learning Ada83 2004-09-02 23:13 ` Nick Roberts @ 2004-09-03 15:38 ` Kevin Cline 2004-09-03 16:42 ` Marius Amado Alves 0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread From: Kevin Cline @ 2004-09-03 15:38 UTC (permalink / raw) "Nick Roberts" <nick.roberts@acm.org> wrote in message news:<opsdp2srmvp4pfvb@bram-2>... > On 2 Sep 2004 07:23:25 -0700, Jim Gurtner <jgurtner@mindspring.com> wrote: > > > I am a Computer Engineering student and am teaching myself Ada95 > > using the book "Ada 95: The Craft of Object-Oriented Programming" > > by John English. > > > > I would like to be able to get a job in the defense industry when > > I graduate. Should I get a book on Ada83 and study it also? Or > > does studying Ada95 make one automatically fluent in Ada83? > > Ada 95 is nearly a true superset of Ada 83, so I think studying Ada > 95 will enable you to understand Ada 83 programs well enough. I > doubt that there will be much origination of new software in Ada 83 > in any shop anywhere nowadays. > > You would probably find it instructive to look at the Ada 83 > reference manual. The Ada Information Clearinghouse, at: > > http://www.adaic.org/ > > has an online copy of the ARM 83 (under the Ada Standards menu). > > One significant point about the difference between Adas 83 and 95 > is that the really object-oriented features were added in Ada 95. > However, Ada 83 did have packages and generics. It even had type > derivation (but not extension, so it wasn't very useful). > > Actually, although learning Ada 95 is a very good idea for several > reasons, you ought to be advised (if you have not already) to learn > some other languages, at least to a basic level. Probably C and one > assembly language (not in detail) would be useful. Probably C++ > would also be helpful (again, not necessarily in detail). Possibly > Java (but I'm not sure). Learning a little about some functional > language would also probably be enlightening to you, as would a > little knowledge of typical (relational) database systems. It would also be useful and practical to learn one of the advanced scripting languages like Perl or Python or Ruby. Not only will you learn some new styles of programming, but you will find them extremely useful in automating repetitive tasks. That sort of automation can make huge differences in productivity. While the average developer is performing some 34-step process for the second time that day, and then recovering from the problems caused by forgetting step 19, the expert has run a script and is on to more creative work. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: Learning Ada83 2004-09-03 15:38 ` Kevin Cline @ 2004-09-03 16:42 ` Marius Amado Alves 2004-09-03 17:57 ` Advanced scripting languages (was: Learning Ada83) Björn Persson 0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread From: Marius Amado Alves @ 2004-09-03 16:42 UTC (permalink / raw) To: comp.lang.ada > It would also be useful and practical to learn one of the advanced > scripting languages like Perl or Python or Ruby.... Wow, they're *advanced* scripting languages now! And I thought real man did all their scripting in Ada these days :-) Now, less jestly, I find this a strange advice in this list. If you want to go the Great Ball of Mud way why not just recommend PAM (PHP + Apache + MySQL) and get done with it? (Sorry, every now and then I can't resist a good language battle.) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Advanced scripting languages (was: Learning Ada83) 2004-09-03 16:42 ` Marius Amado Alves @ 2004-09-03 17:57 ` Björn Persson 2004-09-03 23:47 ` Randy Brukardt 0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread From: Björn Persson @ 2004-09-03 17:57 UTC (permalink / raw) Marius Amado Alves wrote: >> It would also be useful and practical to learn one of the advanced >> scripting languages like Perl or Python or Ruby.... > > Wow, they're *advanced* scripting languages now! Sure, a *lot* more advanced than bat files. ;-) -- Björn Persson PGP key A88682FD omb jor ers @sv ge. r o.b n.p son eri nu ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: Advanced scripting languages (was: Learning Ada83) 2004-09-03 17:57 ` Advanced scripting languages (was: Learning Ada83) Björn Persson @ 2004-09-03 23:47 ` Randy Brukardt 2004-09-05 3:28 ` Kevin Cline 0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread From: Randy Brukardt @ 2004-09-03 23:47 UTC (permalink / raw) [-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --] [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 662 bytes --] "Bj�rn Persson" <spam-away@nowhere.nil> wrote in message news:7g2_c.102478$dP1.364156@newsc.telia.net... Marius Amado Alves wrote: >>> It would also be useful and practical to learn one of the advanced >>> scripting languages like Perl or Python or Ruby.... >> >> Wow, they're *advanced* scripting languages now! > >Sure, a *lot* more advanced than bat files. ;-) That's funny, because if it's complicated enough that I can't write a batch file to do it, I'll generally write it in Ada. Bat has If and Goto, and that is enough for simple tasks. Beyond that, I want to be able to fix it and be able to insure that it works... Randy. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: Advanced scripting languages (was: Learning Ada83) 2004-09-03 23:47 ` Randy Brukardt @ 2004-09-05 3:28 ` Kevin Cline 2004-09-08 0:07 ` Randy Brukardt 0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread From: Kevin Cline @ 2004-09-05 3:28 UTC (permalink / raw) "Randy Brukardt" <randy@rrsoftware.com> wrote in message news:<taKdnQ2WrI_qn6TcRVn-sA@megapath.net>... > "Bj�rn Persson" <spam-away@nowhere.nil> wrote in message > news:7g2_c.102478$dP1.364156@newsc.telia.net... > Marius Amado Alves wrote: > > >>> It would also be useful and practical to learn one of the advanced > >>> scripting languages like Perl or Python or Ruby.... > >> > >> Wow, they're *advanced* scripting languages now! > > > >Sure, a *lot* more advanced than bat files. ;-) > > That's funny, because if it's complicated enough that I can't write a batch > file to do it, I'll generally write it in Ada. Bat has If and Goto, and that > is enough for simple tasks. Beyond that, I want to be able to fix it and be > able to insure that it works... Strong typing is handy, but it's not enough to ensure that something works. Ada has it's strengths, but it's not the tool for every job. Why would you spend an hour writing 50 or 100 lines of Ada code when five minutes and a five-line Perl script would do the job? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: Advanced scripting languages (was: Learning Ada83) 2004-09-05 3:28 ` Kevin Cline @ 2004-09-08 0:07 ` Randy Brukardt 2004-09-08 13:38 ` Ken O. Burtch 0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread From: Randy Brukardt @ 2004-09-08 0:07 UTC (permalink / raw) [-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --] [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1689 bytes --] "Kevin Cline" <kevin.cline@gmail.com> wrote in message news:e749549b.0409041928.67714f9b@posting.google.com... > "Randy Brukardt" <randy@rrsoftware.com> wrote in message news:<taKdnQ2WrI_qn6TcRVn-sA@megapath.net>... > > "Bj�rn Persson" <spam-away@nowhere.nil> wrote in message > > news:7g2_c.102478$dP1.364156@newsc.telia.net... > > Marius Amado Alves wrote: > > > > >>> It would also be useful and practical to learn one of the advanced > > >>> scripting languages like Perl or Python or Ruby.... > > >> > > >> Wow, they're *advanced* scripting languages now! > > > > > >Sure, a *lot* more advanced than bat files. ;-) > > > > That's funny, because if it's complicated enough that I can't write a batch > > file to do it, I'll generally write it in Ada. Bat has If and Goto, and that > > is enough for simple tasks. Beyond that, I want to be able to fix it and be > > able to insure that it works... > > Strong typing is handy, but it's not enough to ensure that something > works. Ada has it's strengths, but it's not the tool for every job. > Why would you spend an hour writing 50 or 100 lines of Ada code when > five minutes and a five-line Perl script would do the job? Because it would take a week to learn Perl well enough to use it that way. And it is very rare that such a program is never used again; my one experience with Perl showed it to be a write-only language (it took me two weeks to successfully modify the code that runs the CVS on the ada-auth.org site). And it is very rare that I need to write a 100 line throwaway program; most of my code has much more permanence than that. Summary: It doesn't make sense for me. YMMV. Randy. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: Advanced scripting languages (was: Learning Ada83) 2004-09-08 0:07 ` Randy Brukardt @ 2004-09-08 13:38 ` Ken O. Burtch 0 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Ken O. Burtch @ 2004-09-08 13:38 UTC (permalink / raw) Randy Brukardt wrote: > > "Kevin Cline" <kevin.cline@gmail.com> wrote in message > news:e749549b.0409041928.67714f9b@posting.google.com... > > "Randy Brukardt" <randy@rrsoftware.com> wrote in message > news:<taKdnQ2WrI_qn6TcRVn-sA@megapath.net>... > > > "Bj�rn Persson" <spam-away@nowhere.nil> wrote in message > > > news:7g2_c.102478$dP1.364156@newsc.telia.net... > > > Marius Amado Alves wrote: > > > > > > >>> It would also be useful and practical to learn one of the advanced > > > >>> scripting languages like Perl or Python or Ruby.... > > > >> > > > >> Wow, they're *advanced* scripting languages now! > > > > > > > >Sure, a *lot* more advanced than bat files. ;-) > > > > > > That's funny, because if it's complicated enough that I can't write a > batch > > > file to do it, I'll generally write it in Ada. Bat has If and Goto, and > that > > > is enough for simple tasks. Beyond that, I want to be able to fix it and > be > > > able to insure that it works... > > > > Strong typing is handy, but it's not enough to ensure that something > > works. Ada has it's strengths, but it's not the tool for every job. > > Why would you spend an hour writing 50 or 100 lines of Ada code when > > five minutes and a five-line Perl script would do the job? > > Because it would take a week to learn Perl well enough to use it that way. > And it is very rare that such a program is never used again; my one > experience with Perl showed it to be a write-only language (it took me two > weeks to successfully modify the code that runs the CVS on the ada-auth.org > site). And it is very rare that I need to write a 100 line throwaway > program; most of my code has much more permanence than that. Summary: It > doesn't make sense for me. YMMV. > > Randy. On a rare visit to comp.lang.ada, Ken writes... The documentation for the AdaScript Business Shell (http://www.pegasoft.ca/bush.html) contains several arguments against tools like Perl in favor of Ada-based scripting languages, including: 1. Lower learning curve (a BUSH for loop is an Ada for loop) 2. Lower overall cost for maintaining a script project over its lifetime 3. Error messages that work for you, not against you 4. Better readability when debugging other people's scripts. 5. Sensible syntax shortcuts designed to be typo-resistant. 6. Better portability. 7. Code reuse. When you look at the big picture, Perl projects increase costs and development time. As always, use the right tool for the job. But my experience with Perl development over the past 2 years has been negative. The idea of a 5 line Perl script to replace 100 lines of Ada is a myth. Ken B. Author of "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" -- Ken O. Burtch: http://www.pegasoft.ca : Pegasoft Linux Shell Scripting with Bash / Business Shell : R.R.#1 Bio: 38;Bsc,UI,Lang,Games;Toons,Elves,SF,Pizza;Xian : Jordan Station, ON ````````````````````````````````````````````````````` Canada L0R 1S0 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: Learning Ada83 2004-09-02 14:23 Learning Ada83 Jim Gurtner 2004-09-02 14:55 ` Martin Dowie 2004-09-02 23:13 ` Nick Roberts @ 2004-09-06 2:42 ` Jim Gurtner 2 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Jim Gurtner @ 2004-09-06 2:42 UTC (permalink / raw) Thank you all for clearing this up for me! JimG On 2 Sep 2004 07:23:25 -0700, jgurtner@mindspring.com (Jim Gurtner) wrote: >I am a Computer Engineering student and am teaching myself Ada95 using >the book "Ada 95: The Craft of Object-Oriented Programming" by John >English. > >I would like to be able to get a job in the defense industry when I >graduate. Should I get a book on Ada83 and study it also? Or does >studying Ada95 make one automatically fluent in Ada83? > >Thanks in advance! > >Jim Gurtner >(an Ada programmer wannabe!) >jgurtner@mindspring.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2004-09-08 13:38 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 11+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2004-09-02 14:23 Learning Ada83 Jim Gurtner 2004-09-02 14:55 ` Martin Dowie 2004-09-02 23:13 ` Nick Roberts 2004-09-03 15:38 ` Kevin Cline 2004-09-03 16:42 ` Marius Amado Alves 2004-09-03 17:57 ` Advanced scripting languages (was: Learning Ada83) Björn Persson 2004-09-03 23:47 ` Randy Brukardt 2004-09-05 3:28 ` Kevin Cline 2004-09-08 0:07 ` Randy Brukardt 2004-09-08 13:38 ` Ken O. Burtch 2004-09-06 2:42 ` Learning Ada83 Jim Gurtner
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