From: milkweed@plainfield.bypass.com (Anders Pytte)
Subject: Re: Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract
Date: 1997/03/29
Date: 1997-03-29T00:00:00+00:00 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <milkweed-2903970106170001@port1.chester.smallmedia.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: slrn5jhm2i.1rq.kennel@lyapunov.ucsd.edu
In article <slrn5jhm2i.1rq.kennel@lyapunov.ucsd.edu>,
kennel@nospam.lyapunov.ucsd.edu wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Mar 1997 20:18:12 -0500, Anders Pytte
<milkweed@plainfield.bypass.com> wrote:
> :
> :I guess i made a dangerous generalization there. I've been instinctively
> :appliying programming-by-contract tecniques for the 15 years i've been
> :programming professionally - imperfectly, ofcourse. I've gathered and
> :developed tools and techniques slowly along the way, and am still
> :learning.
>
> This is exactly why "programming by contract" *technology* is so valuable,
> because it enforces, abets, and promotes good behavior and hard-earned
> wisdom to many more people, just as good register allocation technology
> in compilers once rendered the assembly language prowess of above-the-norm
> programmers to the masses.
>
> The C++ design attitude is "don't even try to enforce any style at all"
> which I don't like. If you're particularly postmodernist you might
> assert that such a 'nonstyle' is as much a style in empirical reality
> as any other.
>
> IMHO, it really is true that "policy and mechanism" is better than "mechanism
> not policy" if such policy were thoughfully crafted via wisdom, insight and
> experience.
>
> "There is no 'it would be possible to implement it in a library'.
> There is only do or not do." :-)
>
> --
> Matthew B. Kennel/Institute for Nonlinear Science, UCSD/
> Don't blame me, I voted for Emperor Mollari.
I don't agree with "C++ design attitude is don't even try to enforce any
style at all". That is not even close to the case with any C++ programmers
that I know, nor any of the C++ libraries whose sources I have seen. I
think that statement more accurately reflects the snobbishness of persons
who have the luxury of programming with a language which I acknowledge is
more advanced.
Perhaps you are in academics (not meant as an insult ;-).
In fact, there is nothing essential to Eiffel that I am aware of that was
not practiced by good engineers years before Eiffel was concieved, with
great effort and inspite of difficulties imposed by language (like
non-inheritence of pre- and post-conditions).
Otherwise i agree with everything you said.
Anders.
--
Anders Pytte Milkweed Software
RR 1, Box 227 Voice: (802) 472-5142
Cabot VT 05647 Internet: milkweed@plainfield.bypass.com
next prev parent reply other threads:[~1997-03-29 0:00 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 254+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
1997-03-15 0:00 Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract Bertrand Meyer
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Ariane-5: can you clarify? (Re: Please do not start a language war) Jon S Anthony
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract Chris Brand
1997-03-23 0:00 ` the one and only real true kibo
[not found] ` <tz8ohcjv7cc.fsf@aimnet.com>
1997-03-16 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-03-17 0:00 ` Please do not start a language war (was " Jean-Marc Jezequel
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Richard Irvine
[not found] ` <tz8913l930b.fsf_-_@aimnet.com>
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Ariane-5: can you clarify? (Re: Please do not start a language war) Gavin Collings
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Ariane-5: can you clarify? (Re: Please do not start a language war Roedy Green
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Please do not start a language war (was Re: Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract Ken Garlington
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Jean-Marc Jezequel
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Richard Kaiser
1997-03-21 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-21 0:00 ` Jean-Marc Jezequel
1997-03-25 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-26 0:00 ` Trust but verify " Robert S. White
1997-03-25 0:00 ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-03-26 0:00 ` Robb Nebbe
1997-03-27 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-28 0:00 ` Jeffrey W. Stulin
1997-03-31 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-28 0:00 ` Karel Th�nissen
1997-03-28 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-04-07 0:00 ` Jean-Marc Jezequel
1997-03-29 0:00 ` the one and only real true kibo
[not found] ` <199703190839.JAA02652@stormbringer.irisa.fr>
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Please do not start a language war " Ken Garlington
1997-03-20 0:00 ` Roger T.
1997-03-21 0:00 ` Jean-Marc Jezequel
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-21 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-20 0:00 ` Robert S. White
1997-03-20 0:00 ` Martin Tom Brown
1997-03-21 0:00 ` Robert S. White
1997-03-21 0:00 ` Wolfgang Gellerich
1997-03-20 0:00 ` John L. Ahrens
1997-03-17 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Kent Tong
1997-03-20 0:00 ` Ranan Fraer
1997-03-17 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-03-17 0:00 ` Martin Tom Brown
1997-03-17 0:00 ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-03-18 0:00 ` John McCabe
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Ray McVay
1997-03-27 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-03-29 0:00 ` the one and only real true kibo
1997-03-30 0:00 ` Nick Roberts
1997-04-06 0:00 ` Doctorb
1997-04-08 0:00 ` Ron Crocker
1997-04-11 0:00 ` Richard Riehle
1997-03-17 0:00 ` Nick Leaton
1997-03-17 0:00 ` Richard Kaiser
[not found] ` <tz8g1xtzx9y.fsf@aimnet.com>
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Anders Pytte
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Laurent Moussault
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Jean-Marc Jezequel
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Anders Pytte
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Programming language fanaticism! Louis Bastarache
1997-03-20 0:00 ` Anders Pytte
1997-03-20 0:00 ` Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract Matt Kennel (Remove 'nospam' to reply)
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Anders Pytte
1997-03-26 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-03-27 0:00 ` the one and only real true kibo
1997-03-29 0:00 ` the one and only real true kibo
1997-03-29 0:00 ` Nick S Bensema
1997-03-30 0:00 ` the one and only real true kibo
1997-03-26 0:00 ` Matt Kennel (Remove 'nospam' to reply)
1997-03-29 0:00 ` Anders Pytte [this message]
1997-03-29 0:00 ` Steve Furlong
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Anders Pytte
1997-03-21 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-21 0:00 ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-03-21 0:00 ` William Clodius
1997-03-21 0:00 ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-03-23 0:00 ` William Clodius
1997-03-23 0:00 ` the one and only real true kibo
1997-03-22 0:00 ` Fergus Henderson
1997-03-22 0:00 ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-03-23 0:00 ` the one and only real true kibo
1997-03-23 0:00 ` Anders Pytte
1997-03-24 0:00 ` FUD (Re: Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract) Alexander Anderson
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Alexander Anderson
1997-03-23 0:00 ` Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract Anders Pytte
[not found] ` <3335BC24.13728473@eiffel.com>
1997-03-23 0:00 ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-03-31 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-04-01 0:00 ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-03-25 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-24 0:00 ` the one and only real true kibo
1997-03-24 0:00 ` John Hogg
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-26 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-03-26 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
[not found] ` <E7ox17.MKx@syd.csa.com.au>
1997-03-28 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Richard Kaiser
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Nick Leaton
1997-03-18 0:00 ` "Paul E. Bennett"
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Nick Leaton
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-03-25 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-03-31 0:00 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-04-02 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-04-03 0:00 ` Martin Tom Brown
1997-04-04 0:00 ` Derek Clarke
1997-04-04 0:00 ` Jonathan Egre'
1997-04-06 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-04-06 0:00 ` Nick Roberts
1997-03-31 0:00 ` Jan Galkowski
1997-03-31 0:00 ` Alexander Anderson
1997-04-01 0:00 ` Alexander Anderson
1997-04-02 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-20 0:00 ` John the Hamster
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Richard Kaiser
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Nick Leaton
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Richard Kaiser
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Fergus Henderson
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Jean-Marc Jezequel
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Richard Kaiser
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Jean-Marc Jezequel
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-17 0:00 ` Alexander Anderson
1997-03-17 0:00 ` Paul Johnson
1997-03-17 0:00 ` Enrico Facchin - Sartori E.T.
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Anders Pytte
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-17 0:00 ` John McCabe
[not found] ` <tz8n2s1hrdc.fsf@aimnet.com>
1997-03-20 0:00 ` John McCabe
1997-03-20 0:00 ` John McCabe
1997-03-20 0:00 ` Jean-Marc Jezequel
1997-03-20 0:00 ` John McCabe
1997-03-21 0:00 ` Niall Cooling
1997-03-21 0:00 ` Gavin Collings
1997-03-27 0:00 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-04-03 0:00 ` Gavin Collings
1997-04-03 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-04-04 0:00 ` Derek Clarke
1997-04-04 0:00 ` Derek Clarke
1997-04-06 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-04-07 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-04-09 0:00 ` Gavin Collings
1997-04-03 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-04-04 0:00 ` Chris Beer
1997-04-04 0:00 ` Derek Clarke
1997-04-04 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-04-04 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-04-03 0:00 ` Robin Rosenberg
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-26 0:00 ` Thomas Beale
1997-03-26 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-21 0:00 ` "Paul E. Bennett"
1997-03-22 0:00 ` Nigel Tzeng
1997-03-23 0:00 ` John McCabe
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Eric M. Boyd
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Jeffrey W. Stulin
[not found] ` <3345cd60.2092398@news.sydney.apana.org.au>
1997-04-03 0:00 ` Ariane-5 crash , Eiffel and Ada Nick Leaton
1997-04-03 0:00 ` Jeffrey W. Stulin
1997-04-08 0:00 ` AdaWorks
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract Jon S Anthony
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Tarjei Jensen
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Ulrich Windl
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Ron Forrester
1997-03-21 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-22 0:00 ` Ron Forrester
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-20 0:00 ` Richard Kaiser
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-20 0:00 ` Martin Tom Brown
1997-03-21 0:00 ` Frank Manning
1997-03-21 0:00 ` Martin Tom Brown
1997-03-23 0:00 ` Frank Manning
1997-03-25 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Karel Th�nissen
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-03-20 0:00 ` Paul Johnson
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Design by Contract in C++ (was Re: Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract) Anders Pytte
1997-03-20 0:00 ` Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract Jean-Marc Jezequel
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Nick Leaton
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Karel Th�nissen
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Ariane-5: can you clarify? (Re: Please do not start a language war) Karel Th�nissen
1997-03-20 0:00 ` Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract Robert I. Eachus
1997-03-20 0:00 ` Ariane-5: can you clarify? (Re: Please do not start a language war) Nick Leaton
1997-03-20 0:00 ` Karel Th�nissen
1997-03-20 0:00 ` Nick Leaton
1997-03-20 0:00 ` Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract Robert I. Eachus
1997-03-21 0:00 ` Please do not start a language war (was " Jon S Anthony
1997-03-21 0:00 ` Alexander Anderson
1997-03-23 0:00 ` "Paul E. Bennett"
1997-03-21 0:00 ` Ulrich Windl
[not found] ` <tz8sp1qiywm.fsf@aimnet.com>
1997-03-21 0:00 ` ae59
1997-03-22 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-03-28 0:00 ` Matt Kennel (Remove 'nospam' to reply)
1997-03-22 0:00 ` Ariane-5: can you clarify? (Re: Please do not start a language war) Stuart Yeates
1997-03-22 0:00 ` Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract Bertrand Meyer
1997-03-23 0:00 ` Dale Stanbrough
[not found] ` <3335E18E.33590565@eiffel.com>
1997-03-23 0:00 ` FUD (Re: Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract) Bertrand Meyer
1997-03-24 0:00 ` William Grosso
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-03-24 0:00 ` William Clodius
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Brad Appleton
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract Robert Dewar
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Manners (was Re: Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract) Bertrand Meyer
1997-03-25 0:00 ` the one and only real true kibo
1997-03-22 0:00 ` Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract Bertrand Meyer
1997-03-22 0:00 ` Anders Pytte
1997-03-23 0:00 ` Steve Furlong
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Anders Pytte
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Simulating Eiffel-style assertions (was: Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract) Wolfgang Reddig
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Anders Pytte
1997-03-25 0:00 ` Wolfgang Reddig
1997-03-25 0:00 ` Anders Pytte
1997-03-31 0:00 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-03-26 0:00 ` Alan Brain
1997-03-26 0:00 ` Wolfgang Reddig
1997-03-29 0:00 ` How old time languages survive EJon
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract Robb Nebbe
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Ariane-5: can you clarify? (Re: Please do not start a language war) William Clodius
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract Ken Garlington
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-27 0:00 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-03-31 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-04-06 0:00 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Ariane-5: can you clarify? (Re: Please do not start a language war) Nick Leaton
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract Alexander Anderson
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Ariane-5: can you clarify? (Re: Please do not start a language war) Ken Garlington
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract Jon S Anthony
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-25 0:00 ` Ariane-5: can you clarify? (Re: Please do not start a language war) Ken Garlington
1997-03-25 0:00 ` David Starr
1997-03-25 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-25 0:00 ` Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract Robert I. Eachus
1997-03-26 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-03-26 0:00 ` Alexander Anderson
1997-03-26 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-27 0:00 ` Trust but verify (was " Robert I. Eachus
1997-03-28 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-03-28 0:00 ` Trust but verify (was " Robert I. Eachus
1997-03-31 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
1997-03-17 0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1997-03-20 0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1997-03-25 0:00 ` Nick Roberts
1997-03-24 0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1997-03-27 0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1997-04-03 0:00 Adrian B.Y. Hoe
1997-04-05 0:00 ` Nick Roberts
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